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  • bklynbronco
    replied
    this is my last response to this

    I couldn't respond to you cause my work day was done and it was unfortunate that we started this discussion so hot and heavy at the end of the day. I understood everything you pointed out horseface. Because i said he couldn't win a game by himself you got all huffy and puffy about it and you wanted to prove he's good enough to be a factor or why KC won games by bringing up the green bay game. that's all well and good and i eventually gave you that point. But through out all my points you never understood me. he doesn't have a reputation for leading teams from behind, this is honestly his first year leading a playoff caliber team into the playoffs so the inexperience may hurt him in the playoffs. I'm not saying that he can't do it, all I'm saying is that he hasn't done it consistantly so I won't give him that credit yet. That's my whole point. You won't be able to convince me of that. but I did undersatnd what you said. i gave you the point he did help in winning the green bay game. You were so angry with me my points were looked over as being repetitive. All I'm saying that there are qb that have a great year and thier are qb that have great careers and trent is having a great year. nobody knows what the future holds so i hold my opinion of him untill then. No my opinion of him is not negative is just up in the air right now.
    Please don't take this discussion personal, I don't know what happened in the last couple of days but the post have gotten really nasty throught out this board. I really have no prob with you.

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  • bklynbronco
    replied
    since your bringing up elway

    why does elway have the most comeback victories he didn't have dominating teams. he has The Drive horseface, that was all him. 3rd and 18 yards for a first down on the road in cleveland. the snap is bad and he still completes a pass to steve watson for a first down. Vintage elway. all him. don't go there. sammy winder was a thousand yard runner but he was no terrell davis. vance johnson rickey nattiel and mark jackson compared to rod smith, edmac and shannon sharpe. I'll take the latter. he was the whole offense in the 80's.

    Leave a comment:


  • bklynbronco
    replied
    who is talking about elway

    i have not once in this thread brought up elway. If you talking about the marino vs elway thread that's different but that has nothing to do with this thread.

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  • bklynbronco
    replied
    Re: Re: Re: Re: hold on thier sparky.....

    Originally posted by horseface
    I never said he did it alone...but Elway never did it by himself either...it's always a team effort to make a big comeback. The D always has to make the stops...the receivers have to get open and make the catches...that's all I'm saying...and you left out the TD to get it to 31-21...it was a 17 point lead they came back from. Either way...I never once said he is a great QB and will be remembered as such. I simply said he was able to lead his team to victory against adversity...and you said he hasn't done it. You must see the discrepancies in the argument you present. You say that John Elway won all of their comebacks with no Defense, no running backs, no receivers...and that just doesn't hold up. This whole argument stems from the fact that I said Trent can lead his team to a big comeback victory...and he did...in Green Bay. Others argue that it shouldn't be that special because the D was in the prevent...of course they were...they were up 17...any comeback begins by moving the ball and scoring against the prevent. As the margin gets closer, the D tightens up though. This same fellow would tell you that it shouldn't count because GB's pass Defense is bad...did John Elway never lead a great comeback against a poor pass D? Of course he did...but you wouldn't take away from the comeback b/c of this...and either would I. Either way...the CHIEFS made a great comeback against the packers...and Trent Green most certainly lead the charge.
    I never brought up john elway so i hope your not talking about me. second 31-21, if that interception didn't happen to make it 31-28( because it happen on the very next drive horseface) the way ahman green was running on the chiefs you don't think he couldn't have wasted some valuable clock so the chiefs wouldn't have had so much time to comeback? That turnover helped trent immensly in his great comeback. if that's his claim to fame for you, so i can say that he led his team through adversity ok one game you got it he's the greatest comebackQB in history.(i'm being sarcastic) but seriously one game doesn't make him a battle tested QB. lets wait and see.

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  • bklynbronco
    replied
    no miscommunication

    what comeback? the green bay game? Is that whay your holding on to? turnovers and a stingy d. did not help in that comeback at all? How many times did you guys get good field position because of hall and they kept kicking it out of bounds. are you telling me that priest holmes was not a factor in the comeback? It was all trent green. see this is my problem you want to give him more credit and i want to give him less credit so we are at a impasse. Agree to disagree. but in my opinion and this is my opinion he has to do it the playoffs, that's it. that's the stage manning is at. great season QB but bad playoff QB. He's trying to win one playoff game to get people off his back. trent hasn't got there yet so we'll see.

    P.S. priest holmes touch downs were not a factor because they were inside the five against buffalo. wow. Just by him playing in the game he's a factor. cause you have to stop him no matter what. whether he is on or not you don't know if he could break a long run so the defense still has to play the run because of his reputation. that helps trent too HF.

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  • bklynbronco
    replied
    Originally posted by horseface
    Don't believe everything you hear...GB has looked good the last few weeks, and it being played at Lambeau, fairs very well for the Packers. As for the Chiefs, they looked bad last week, but they still have the best record in the NFL with one of the most potent offenses out there. They didn't click on Sunday, but they are a very good team. While their defense is the question mark, they have outscored 9 out of 10 teams so far this year...and that's hard to do. It's great that you have confidence in Jake, but I'd be willing to bet that GB fans have faith in Favre as well. And the KC fans know that Trent Green is looking very solid as well, he had another game of over 300 yards on Sunday with over a 100 qb rating. Believing in your QB won't make your remaing "tough" 3 games any easier.
    In case all of the posters are wondering this is the horseface post that started our debate. he's boast of green's 300 yard game in a lost. I believe that the chiefs are one of the best teams or is the best team in football as of right now and green is having a great year but it's the playoffs where stars are born. i'll wait till january to to see what he does, that's my whole point. this is his first year leading a playoff team to maybe a superbowl we'll see what he's about. that's all.
    Last edited by bklynbronco; 11-21-2003, 01:55 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • bklynbronco
    replied
    Originally posted by horseface
    "What does that mean? That even if trent has 400 yards but priest or hall is not a factor in the game they will lose."

    This is the statement that I have a problem with. Priest Holmes barely broke 100 all purpose yards against Buffalo (only 83 rushing yards). Dante did not have a return for a TD...and the Chiefs won by 33 points. So your statement above is not a true statement in all cases...it was simply the case one time...against cincy. The chiefs will not lose if Priest or Dante doesn't win it. Trent only had about 275 passing yards in that game...but it was his play and his consistent passing that helped the Chiefs blow out the Bills. The fact is...Trent is just as important right now to this offense as Priest Holmes or Dante Hall. Just read that quote from above again...and tell me you honestly think it's true.
    Are you into stats or winning? again no credit to the defense.What did drew do in that game. How many turnover's did you guys get in that game? why is so hard for you to understand that I won't give him credit untill the playoffs. second It's a combination of all three,trent, priest and the dante that make the chiefs dangerous. but the defense makes turnover that puts your offense in great positions. All year it's been a combination of defensive turnovers,big plays on offense and special teams that had you undefeated and now you want to say because of the steady poise of trent green the chiefs have been winning. cut it out cause your not convincing me of that, period. just like Rich gannon had a career year last year and he was the man so is trent we'll see what he does in the playoffs. I guess you have green on this immortal pedestal and you want the rest of the nfl to give him respect but it doesn't work that way. If he is all that you say he is come january he'll shine bright in the spotlight.Oh by the way did priest have any TD's in that buffalo game? I believe he did so he was a factor in the game somewhat.

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  • bklynbronco
    replied
    Re: Re: hold on thier sparky.....

    Originally posted by horseface
    so when Trent brings back the Chiefs from a 17 point 4th quarter deficit...a lot of factors came into play...but when Trent can't come back against Cincy...his effort wasn't enough...don't you see the disrecpencies in your statements. You say that McNair and the likes don't come up short...but when Trent doesn't either...everyone else gets the credit. You are making it blatantly obvious that your views are skewed by your hatred of this 9-1 team.
    before this season started I would have taken Steve McNair,,Brett Favre,,drew bledsoe, and D. Mcnabb before trent green if you want to go there. in the green bay game down 31-21 and the next packer drive results in a tip pass interception for touchdown 31-28. next drive for the packers they punt. yeah that was all trent green he's part of the defense too. No credit to the defense making stops and scoring off of turnovers. Again down by17 and he has to throw the ball so of course the yards are padded. KC has the best offensive line in football so they get no credit either i guess. He can throw for 500 yards but if you don't win how great is he? Understand what i'm saying. KC wins with Priest,special teams and.....and trent green. they won't win just with trent green. all the qb's i picked ahead of trent don't have a complete offense like KC. McNair? what offense? Bett Favre who is his recievers? honestly? Bledsoe travis henry who? is that why they drafted MaGehee? Mcnabb? also no recievers. These QBs do it by themselves. Is trent green a good QB? Yes. Can he win you a game when priest is shut down. I don't think so. Right now at 9-1 everything has gone right for the chiefs. though he tried to make the come back against cincy, is that what he's known for? the comeback. what reputation does trent have? He has to create his own reputation and that's what we have yet to see. Remember last year Rich gannon was gods gift to QB's now he might not even make the raiders. also I'm not involving jake cause he has to prove to denver fans that's he's the real deal also. so i'm not being bias to denver players. we have to see trent accomplish something first before we start labeling people great. we are in a generation of one hit wonders or one year wonders and are quick to name people great before they win anything. The chiefs are either the best team or tied with tenn for the best team in football but i won't give trent the benefit of the doubt for QB can't do it.

    Leave a comment:


  • dan_marino
    replied
    Stop trash talking

    bcollin1 & horseface,
    Why don't both of u have a boxing duel and stop talking?

    Would be fun for the rest of us while u stop your trash talking!

    P.S. Barking dogs seldom bite

    Leave a comment:


  • pikman
    replied
    Originally posted by bcollin1
    In the end, how good a RB is depends on whether you prefer a power guy like Lewis, or a guy who can make moves and take it to the house on any play, like Portis or LT.

    There IS no right answer there,
    Gotta take exception to that statement. You're saying Jerome Bettis is as good a back as Barry Sanders was because I prefer a power back to someone who is shiftier and quicker. How good a running back is can well be determined by stats.

    Leave a comment:


  • dan_marino
    replied
    Elway is overrated

    Dan Marino is better.

    You guys will start talking about superbowls.

    Well, Elway won because of Terrel Davis.

    Even Plummer has great potential with Portis and Shanahan around.

    Leave a comment:


  • Return of Lava
    replied
    Originally posted by pikman
    Jake and TG both have proven nothing so far. They are both young talented QB's, however history will rate them. To date neither has "played" in a superbowl, or major playoff game. We will rave about Jake, he is and will be a perfect fit for this offense I am sure time will prove this. KC fan will rave about TG and all the good he does for the Chiefs. Like I said earlier let's all meet back at this thread in ten years and then thumb our noses at the other guy.
    What i was saying was that you dont need time to tell how good you look. All you have to do is look. plummer's performance has been exceptional (not to say green hasnt been) and i dont need more time to see the same thing.

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  • pikman
    replied
    Jake and TG both have proven nothing so far. They are both young talented QB's, however history will rate them. To date neither has "played" in a superbowl, or major playoff game. We will rave about Jake, he is and will be a perfect fit for this offense I am sure time will prove this. KC fan will rave about TG and all the good he does for the Chiefs. Like I said earlier let's all meet back at this thread in ten years and then thumb our noses at the other guy.

    Leave a comment:


  • broncos4ever
    replied
    Re: Re: hold on thier sparky.....

    Originally posted by horseface
    so when Trent brings back the Chiefs from a 17 point 4th quarter deficit...a lot of factors came into play...but when Trent can't come back against Cincy...his effort wasn't enough...don't you see the disrecpencies in your statements. You say that McNair and the likes don't come up short...but when Trent doesn't either...everyone else gets the credit. You are making it blatantly obvious that your views are skewed by your hatred of this 9-1 team.
    Look Horseface... Sure we are going to be biased for Denver, afterall this is a Denver Broncos Message board and most of us are Bronco die hard fans...

    That fact aside, bklynbronco makes a very good point. Trent only came back against Green Bay because Ahmed fumbled the ball, there was one questionable no-call of a clip that should have been called on punt return of Dante's that got the ball back up to the 30 or so to get things rolling for Kansas City, and several Green Bay miscues.

    Time will tell the tale if Trent Green can be the quarterback you think he can be. For me, I'm a doubter. He has done well this year I will give you that. Of course I'd rather have Jake, we'll see whose better.

    Leave a comment:


  • Return of Lava
    replied
    Jake is the cinderella of the year.

    Leave a comment:

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