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Did we draft the wrong WR?

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  • Originally posted by DenverBlood View Post

    This is precisely the agenda based argument I was calling you out for. In a thread about Juedy you call out Lock for his flaws but when I talk about drops for Juedy you hide his high drop rate amongst the entire wr corps to call to middle of the pack. But I imagine Juedys 17.5% drop rate as mentioned by a follow on poster has to also rate near the worst in the league.

    I can easily flip this argument on you and mention that if Juedy hadn’t dropped such a high rate Locks rating could’ve easily improved. Sure not to an above average passer. But both his completion % and even multiple tds improve his overall stats without Juedys high drop rate. It works both ways.
    Well, we have a rookie WR who had a case of the dropsies and a QB who is known to have struggled with accuracy. When both of them are on it's a deadly combo that stresses a Defense. When one of them is off...not so much. Each guy needs to work on his own flaws.
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      • Originally posted by listopencil View Post

        Well, we have a rookie WR who had a case of the dropsies and a QB who is known to have struggled with accuracy. When both of them are on it's a deadly combo that stresses a Defense. When one of them is off...not so much. Each guy needs to work on his own flaws.
        I agree with you. They showed flashes together last year like the 90 yard play against Oakland. It was a perfect 20-25 yard throw with great accuracy that hit Juedy in stride and juedys speed did the rest.

        but a lot of the season Juedy dropped those passes or Lock couldn’t get him the ball. But the talent is there.
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        • Originally posted by DenverBlood View Post

          This is precisely the agenda based argument I was calling you out for. In a thread about Juedy you call out Lock for his flaws but when I talk about drops for Juedy you hide his high drop rate amongst the entire wr corps to call to middle of the pack. But I imagine Juedys 17.5% drop rate as mentioned by a follow on poster has to also rate near the worst in the league.

          I can easily flip this argument on you and mention that if Juedy hadn’t dropped such a high rate Locks rating could’ve easily improved. Sure not to an above average passer. But both his completion % and even multiple tds improve his overall stats without Juedys high drop rate. It works both ways.
          Lol I guess I missed the "call out"

          I went ahead and added all of Juedys drops and assumed they were completions and it moves Lock from the 40th rated "on target" to 39th- moving him ahead of Dwayne Haskins. We can even assume Lock went away from Juedy after drops and add in another 10 and he still ranks in high 30s. If you want to assume something absurd like TDs we might as well give them all to Lock as well. 9 more TDs puts Lock almost in the middle of the pack.

          Your absolutely right though, Juedys drops were ranked near the league lead. Having 4 or 5 drops(half the total) in one game is an anomaly, being an inaccurate passer involving EVERYONE is no anomaly.



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          • Originally posted by atwaterandstir View Post

            Lol I guess I missed the "call out"

            I went ahead and added all of Juedys drops and assumed they were completions and it moves Lock from the 40th rated "on target" to 39th- moving him ahead of Dwayne Haskins. We can even assume Lock went away from Juedy after drops and add in another 10 and he still ranks in high 30s. If you want to assume something absurd like TDs we might as well give them all to Lock as well. 9 more TDs puts Lock almost in the middle of the pack.

            Your absolutely right though, Juedys drops were ranked near the league lead. Having 4 or 5 drops(half the total) in one game is an anomaly, being an inaccurate passer involving EVERYONE is no anomaly.


            So I’ll admit I didn’t do the research but these kinds of numbers always confuse me.

            You have some posters listing his drop rate at 17%. And other sites saying he only dropped 9 which syncs up with your statement.

            But he was target around 114 times. 9 drops is far from 17.5% drop rate out of 114 targets. So I apologize for assuming that 17.5% was a lot closer to 15-20 dropped passes for the season. Which would wreak a lot more havoc on Locks rating.

            I assume there’s some sort of factor on the drop rate that involves judgement. Where the pass has to be “catcheable” for it to be considered a dropped pass. And those stats are not available online. I’m sure there were plenty of 114 targets where Locks throw didn’t give Juedy a shot. Which supports your argument. But I can’t research that online.

            So it’s hard to reconcile a 17.5% drop rate to 9 dropped passes out of 114 targets.

            I will say I’m skeptical of the “9” counted dropped passes. I feel like he had 4 in the first 2-4 weeks of the season. There’s no way he had no more until the game where he dropped 4-5 in one game. I’m not sure that is correct. But I also obviously don’t have tape to count them all.

            I know he dropped at least two against Tennessee in the opener. And dropped 4-5 against the Chargers near the end. But I’ll admit my memory escapes me now on a 5-11 season where I really can’t name many others anymore.
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            • When it comes to Jeudy and his drops, the thing I generally mention is he wasn't that high in drop percentage until the San Diego game, where he dropped a large number of passes, which sky rocketed his percentage. Either way the reason Jeudy gets excuses over Lock is bc he's not only a rookie, but a rookie that looks to have very promising skills. When you watch him, you see someone who can be elite, which makes his drops more frustrating. There has already been NFL defenders saying Jeudy can be a problem for defenses, and though some of his drops are Lock throwing bad balls. Some of his drops are also from the double edge sword of his speed. Dude is quick.

              There was one drop in particular in the San Diego game that showed his speed screwing him over. Lock threw a good ball, it was clearly an easy catch, Jeudy like normal beat his defender....but didn't make the catch, not only did he not make the catch, he almost got injured with no contact. Why? He was moving too fast. He literally tripped and almost hurt himself bc of his own speed.
              I don't remember who said, might have been Beastly that mentioned it, but Jeudy isn't working his hands as much as his feet. Me and Can had a conversation about how Davante Adams has changed his game, changed how he catches balls and uses his footwork.

              If I was Jeudy, a rookie wide out, I would look to vets for help to lower drops and managing speed, footwork, and catching. It wouldn't be hard for him to hit up Adams, and though I'm sure some older fans will complain about the thought, but in modern sports, it's very common for athletes to workout together during the offseason.
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              • Originally posted by DenverBlood View Post

                So I’ll admit I didn’t do the research but these kinds of numbers always confuse me.

                You have some posters listing his drop rate at 17%. And other sites saying he only dropped 9 which syncs up with your statement.

                But he was target around 114 times. 9 drops is far from 17.5% drop rate out of 114 targets. So I apologize for assuming that 17.5% was a lot closer to 15-20 dropped passes for the season. Which would wreak a lot more havoc on Locks rating.

                I assume there’s some sort of factor on the drop rate that involves judgement. Where the pass has to be “catcheable” for it to be considered a dropped pass. And those stats are not available online. I’m sure there were plenty of 114 targets where Locks throw didn’t give Juedy a shot. Which supports your argument. But I can’t research that online.

                So it’s hard to reconcile a 17.5% drop rate to 9 dropped passes out of 114 targets.

                I will say I’m skeptical of the “9” counted dropped passes. I feel like he had 4 in the first 2-4 weeks of the season. There’s no way he had no more until the game where he dropped 4-5 in one game. I’m not sure that is correct. But I also obviously don’t have tape to count them all.

                I know he dropped at least two against Tennessee in the opener. And dropped 4-5 against the Chargers near the end. But I’ll admit my memory escapes me now on a 5-11 season where I really can’t name many others anymore.
                There were definitely more than 9 drops on the season, but the NFL only counts a drop of the WR didn’t have to make any adjustment at all. So if he’s diving or jumping or getting hit and doesn’t catch the ball they don’t count it as a drop. It’s a very relaxed definition.

                Lock did have some that weren’t catchable though, but I still think a lack of chemistry was a huge problem for Lock last year. Look at the percentages of the players he threw to; Patrick was at 64.6%, AOK was at 73.3% and Fant was at 66.7%. Jeudy was at 46% and Hamler was at 53.6%. Hamilton was at 52% as well. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the guys he’s thrown to whether last season or in college posted the best percentages. Hamilton gave up on routes or lost the ball in the air quite a bit last season and I think that’s why his numbers are low, quite honestly I’m shocked he managed to stick all season, I thought for sure he’d be cut after the Titans game when he dropped a huge catch down the sideline and then gave up on another deep ball, both of which would’ve gave us the win.

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                • I'm surprised how quickly he became a diva. I heard talk about him being kinda that way in college. But, I thought guys came in with some humility. Now he's shooting off his mouth about teammates. I like the guy less and less. Wish they could've found a Rod Smith type guy. Maybe humility in general is becoming more and more rare in the modern NFL.

                  I haven't heard the interview itself, but all of the articles I'm reading about Jeudy's recent Bart and Hahn ESPN radio interview are saying some pretty bad things. If anyone has a link to it, I'd like to hear it. Sounds pretty bad and bizarre.
                  Last edited by DiveInstructor; 02-05-2021, 07:03 AM.

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                  • I think Jeudy is owning his shortcomings and working on them. IF, he struggles with drops next year than, yes, I might get concerned. He still runs as good of routes as anyone in football. With a healthy Sutton, Hamler, Patrick, I really don't think he gets doubled very often next year either.

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                    • Originally posted by DiveInstructor View Post
                      I'm surprised how quickly he became a diva. I heard talk about him being kinda that way in college. But, I thought guys came in with some humility. Now he's shooting off his mouth about teammates. I like the guy less and less. Wish they could've found a Rod Smith type guy. Maybe humility in general is becoming more and more rare in the modern NFL.

                      I haven't heard the interview itself, but all of the articles I'm reading about Jeudy's recent Bart and Hahn ESPN radio interview are saying some pretty bad things. If anyone has a link to it, I'd like to hear it. Sounds pretty bad and bizarre.
                      From what I did here of the Bart and Hahn interview, no one is going to accuse him of being articulate.

                      I changed the station because they were having technical difficulties and didn’t want to stick around for the train wreck that seemed to be coming.
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