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  • #31
    Originally posted by Ltsft View Post
    Nope, terrible call even if completed. And I am only talking about that one play, not the other pick. Keep in mind the specifics, if the pats are down 3 or less or anything else is different, it could be a completely different conversation. The announcers commented on it too, even before the interception. If you can't manage timeouts and the clock, you might as well just be the best D coordinator in the league. Nothing wrong with that.
    The difference would’ve been minimal if noticeable at all. There would’ve been maybe a 50 second difference in time. The Pats ate through those 50 seconds in 2 sequences and gave us the ball back with 58 seconds left in the game. Running 3 straight times would’ve given them similar field position with about 2:40 or so left and a chance to block another punt or get a good return because our coverage sucks. The more likely scenario of run run pass would’ve gave them the same amount of time with only the 2 minute warning left to stop the clock but that’s still plenty of time to go down the field and score a TD.

    Like I said I don’t hate the decision to go for the throat, I just didn’t like the playcall or the execution. And if that pass was completed we’re in FG range and can put the game out of reach.

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    • #32
      Fair enough. I guess I consider a 50 second difference in that specific situation as much more than a minimal difference. Keep in mind the Pats needed a TD, not just to get into FG range.
      If it was the only thing, probably not as glaring but as the latest in a series of mishandling of clock and timeouts... I hope it can be fixed, I am not seeing improvement in that department.

      Comment


      • #33
        Rewatched the game and Lock really only had 4 bad passes or so. The others were either drops, good defensive plays or a throw away. I really dont see how people are saying that he played poorly. He had half a week of practice after not playing for 3-4 weeks?

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        • #34
          Yes, i started the thread about the play call, not the interception itself. Lock has been awesome and if you take away the really obvious easy drops, his stats are great and we are 3-2. If he can stay healthy he is a franchise qb you can build around.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Dotst View Post
            Rewatched the game and Lock really only had 4 bad passes or so. The others were either drops, good defensive plays or a throw away. I really dont see how people are saying that he played poorly. He had half a week of practice after not playing for 3-4 weeks?
            Drew Lock completed ten of twenty-four passes. He threw the ball into the EZ eight times and had two picks which accounts for ten of the fourteen incompletions. His ypa was 7.9, so he was airing it out. A committed rushing attack with a vertical passing attack seems to be the way it will go. If Denver's O is going to be North of 50% run, half their pass attempts need to be play action. Against the Pats, it was 1/4.
            "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Dotst View Post
              Rewatched the game and Lock really only had 4 bad passes or so. The others were either drops, good defensive plays or a throw away. I really dont see how people are saying that he played poorly. He had half a week of practice after not playing for 3-4 weeks?
              Well - He threw 2 INTs and had one defended by his reciever. 3INT's on average has a -12 point impact on the final score.
              We can make excuses, but the the thing that is important is if Lock learns and stops doing stuff that hurts the team. 6 field goals in a game is testament to inefficient redzone offense, and that is one of the things that hurt us with Cutler, Orton, Brock, Siemian...

              There is no reason for excuses - we need to see that Lock can lead the team. His record is good so far but the mistakes are worrysome

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              • #37
                Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post

                Well - He threw 2 INTs and had one defended by his reciever. 3INT's on average has a -12 point impact on the final score.
                We can make excuses, but the the thing that is important is if Lock learns and stops doing stuff that hurts the team. 6 field goals in a game is testament to inefficient redzone offense, and that is one of the things that hurt us with Cutler, Orton, Brock, Siemian...

                There is no reason for excuses - we need to see that Lock can lead the team. His record is good so far but the mistakes are worrysome
                The almost INT wasn’t a bad pass per se, maybe a tad short but he didn’t see that DB and that play happens to the best of QBs because they’re looking to see if their WR has inside leverage on the boundary CB and if anyone is deep in the middle of the field. That DB wasn’t anywhere in his sight line. Now the decision to put touch on it can be argued, I’d like to see him just zip it in there because Gilmore was the CB trailing and he doesn’t get beat that easily so it should’ve threw up some kind of red flag to Lock. But Atlanta picked off Manning I think 3 times rolling coverages like that so it happens to the best of the best.

                Hard to judge the throw in the first INT because there was clearly some miscommunication but I’m not sure it isn’t still picked off even if they were on the same page because the CB was in perfect position for that route. Basically I think Patrick read the defense correctly but if they both wanted the back shoulder throw Patrick probably stems and leveraged the route different so it’s hard to say. I doubt Shurmur is asking Lock to run option route concepts where he has to make the decision during the play. It was probably a pre snap decision based off how the CB/FS were lined up.



                Im not trying to make excuses, he absolutely has to improve, but a lot of these mistakes seem to stem more from a lack of chemistry and inexperience in the offense rather than Lock just not having it. His receivers haven’t helped him much either with drops and in the case of Hamilton horrendous ball skills. Lock being able to drop the ball in between a CB and S coming over the top is top notch, the passes that AO dropped in the end zone were perfect, the deep pass to Hamilton was everything you could ask for in a QB. 99% of QBs can hit open targets, putting the ball into specific windows is what you need in this league and Lock flashes that ability every game.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

                  The almost INT wasn’t a bad pass per se, maybe a tad short but he didn’t see that DB and that play happens to the best of QBs because they’re looking to see if their WR has inside leverage on the boundary CB and if anyone is deep in the middle of the field. That DB wasn’t anywhere in his sight line. Now the decision to put touch on it can be argued, I’d like to see him just zip it in there because Gilmore was the CB trailing and he doesn’t get beat that easily so it should’ve threw up some kind of red flag to Lock. But Atlanta picked off Manning I think 3 times rolling coverages like that so it happens to the best of the best.

                  Hard to judge the throw in the first INT because there was clearly some miscommunication but I’m not sure it isn’t still picked off even if they were on the same page because the CB was in perfect position for that route. Basically I think Patrick read the defense correctly but if they both wanted the back shoulder throw Patrick probably stems and leveraged the route different so it’s hard to say. I doubt Shurmur is asking Lock to run option route concepts where he has to make the decision during the play. It was probably a pre snap decision based off how the CB/FS were lined up.



                  Im not trying to make excuses, he absolutely has to improve, but a lot of these mistakes seem to stem more from a lack of chemistry and inexperience in the offense rather than Lock just not having it. His receivers haven’t helped him much either with drops and in the case of Hamilton horrendous ball skills. Lock being able to drop the ball in between a CB and S coming over the top is top notch, the passes that AO dropped in the end zone were perfect, the deep pass to Hamilton was everything you could ask for in a QB. 99% of QBs can hit open targets, putting the ball into specific windows is what you need in this league and Lock flashes that ability every game.
                  Tim used his head.

                  9-17-2012, right? One of those picks was Cover 2 Robber. The stupid replacement refs gave the ball to the Falcons on a fumble even after Orlando Franklin came off the bottom of the pile with the ball.

                  Buzz will be fine.
                  "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by samparnell View Post

                    Tim used his head.

                    9-17-2012, right? One of those picks was Cover 2 Robber. The stupid replacement refs gave the ball to the Falcons on a fumble even after Orlando Franklin came off the bottom of the pile with the ball.

                    Buzz will be fine.
                    Yeah I’m pretty sure the FS ended up in the deep half on the opposite side of the field and a CB ended up in the deep half the FS vacated. Risky to run stuff like that against a QB with a big arm and a fast WR which is probably why they went at Manning with it but it’ll definitely confuse any QB.

                    I don’t know if the Patriots were running cover 1 or cover 3. I just know you rarely see a CB dropping deep centerfield.

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                    • #40
                      Yet another example right there. Down by 3 scores, instead of running another play and maybe more depending on what happens, you just let the 3rd quarter run out. Stupid.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
                        Im not trying to make excuses, he absolutely has to improve, but a lot of these mistakes seem to stem more from a lack of chemistry and inexperience in the offense rather than Lock just not having it. His receivers haven’t helped him much either with drops and in the case of Hamilton horrendous ball skills. Lock being able to drop the ball in between a CB and S coming over the top is top notch, the passes that AO dropped in the end zone were perfect, the deep pass to Hamilton was everything you could ask for in a QB. 99% of QBs can hit open targets, putting the ball into specific windows is what you need in this league and Lock flashes that ability every game.
                        Yes - Lock flaches ability and has a strong skill set. Bad breaks happen, but that is also the time where you need to show up and change the story. When we look back Elway, Plummer & Tebow were all exceptional at generating comeback wins - often on the back of poor play earlier. Look at Manning in the 2012 Charger game - crappy first half and the most amazing comeback.
                        Lock seems to miss the Dr. Jekyll persona when Hr. Hyde has been out making trouble. He needs to show the grit and leadership!

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post

                          Yes - Lock flaches ability and has a strong skill set. Bad breaks happen, but that is also the time where you need to show up and change the story. When we look back Elway, Plummer & Tebow were all exceptional at generating comeback wins - often on the back of poor play earlier. Look at Manning in the 2012 Charger game - crappy first half and the most amazing comeback.
                          Lock seems to miss the Dr. Jekyll persona when Hr. Hyde has been out making trouble. He needs to show the grit and leadership!
                          Elway had 1 4th quarter comeback and 1 game winning drive through 10 games, Lock had 1 4th quarter comeback and 2 game winning drives in his first 5 games. Plummer had 2 of each in his first season which was 9 games and never had more than 2 comebacks in any season with Denver in which he did it his last season which was his worst season. He had 4 game winning drives his second year but he also threw 20 picks that year. Not going to delve into Tebow because that wasn’t sustainable in the NFL. My point is, reversing course and leading a comeback is something you learn through experience but also most QBs need an OC that understands how to get you in a rhythm and that’s something Shurmur has failed to do with any of the QBs that have started. Elway was different in that regard, he could always make something happen and it’s why he’s arguably the best to ever play the position. Plummer would’ve been out of the league if not for Shanahan. Also we can’t judge Lock through the career lens of another QB especially ones that played in a different era.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

                            Elway had 1 4th quarter comeback and 1 game winning drive through 10 games, Lock had 1 4th quarter comeback and 2 game winning drives in his first 5 games. Plummer had 2 of each in his first season which was 9 games and never had more than 2 comebacks in any season with Denver in which he did it his last season which was his worst season. He had 4 game winning drives his second year but he also threw 20 picks that year. Not going to delve into Tebow because that wasn’t sustainable in the NFL. My point is, reversing course and leading a comeback is something you learn through experience but also most QBs need an OC that understands how to get you in a rhythm and that’s something Shurmur has failed to do with any of the QBs that have started. Elway was different in that regard, he could always make something happen and it’s why he’s arguably the best to ever play the position. Plummer would’ve been out of the league if not for Shanahan. Also we can’t judge Lock through the career lens of another QB especially ones that played in a different era.
                            Your data on Plummer are wrong! 2004 he had 4 GWDs.
                            Lock now has 2 GWDs in 9 starts, and his win/loss is thus far respectable, but exactly like when Tebow played in Denver, it was clear that he (as Lock) has to improve, as their levels were/are not adequate. Lock does not have the same glaring flaws that Tebow did, and he does not have the strengths Tebow did either.
                            In the end he is not currently a good NFL QB, and thus far he has shown little sign that he will be, but he has alos not shown that he wont.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post

                              Your data on Plummer are wrong! 2004 he had 4 GWDs.
                              Lock now has 2 GWDs in 9 starts, and his win/loss is thus far respectable, but exactly like when Tebow played in Denver, it was clear that he (as Lock) has to improve, as their levels were/are not adequate. Lock does not have the same glaring flaws that Tebow did, and he does not have the strengths Tebow did either.
                              In the end he is not currently a good NFL QB, and thus far he has shown little sign that he will be, but he has alos not shown that he wont.
                              I said Plummer had 4 game winning drives in his 2nd year which was 2004.

                              The point I’m trying to make is that these things take times and you can’t judge Lock off 10 games. Generally you need 2 seasons to get some semblance of an accurate picture of what a QB will be.

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                              • #45
                                More timeout stupidity.

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