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  • #16
    Originally posted by DENVERSB50CHAMP View Post
    2-4 in just unacceptable. Time for yet another Change. Time to Fire the OC who is King of 3 and Outs Still Calling Long Bombs LOL when it is 3rd 4 Over and Over and Over No wonder why he got fired in NY LOL. Time to fire our Awful Special Teams Coach he has a proven track record of just producing the Worst Special Teams ever a 102 Yard Kickoff Return for a TD come on. Time to Bench Drew. Drew is just not the Answer. At Least With Rypien he can accurately throw the ball Drew has ZERO accuracy. Time For Change in Denver Broncos Country.
    So because we aren't world beaters and were routed by the world champions and other playoff teams we should fire/bench everyone right now? Your expectations need to be tempered by reality.

    Yesterday was a bad game and everything that could go wrong did go wrong, even a PAT from a usually reliable McManus, but the middle of the season is not the time to make all these changes, and probably not at the end of this one either if we want to reap the benefits of stability and continuity.

    Shurmur was a good OC (his track record speaks for itself if you want to look it up) and that's why he won the HC job --that's a different job, you do realize that, right? With such a young offense full of rookies, key starters going down immediately, and no preseason, yeah it's very hard to implement a whole new offense and expect it to thrive. That said, there is room for improvement in his playcalling too -he has to learn what he's working with.

    Drew hasn't played a full season, he needs at least that much -give him a chance to learn from mistakes. He's got the intangibles we want, just needs to refine his skills -like most rookies- and he basically still is one!

    Patience is what's required and that's never been a strong suit for any fanbase -- "NOW NOW NOW I'm tired of waiting, tired of losing! Blow it all up!"

    I agree about Tom McMahon though and it's a mystery why he was retained after last season when ST sucked last year too. This is his third (and hopefully final) year.

    Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Broncoyearound View Post
      I'm certainly not calling any game a win, not anymore and not against teams we think are bad. Unless we are playing the jets or the giants. None of the games on our schedule should be circled as guaranteed wins. I don't think its a talent issue. I really don't think its a talent issue. I think we have great weapons on offense. The line has done fairly well in my opinion. If you have an inaccurate Qb botched with the inability to read the field than you have trouble. Drew gets impatient and doesn't take what the defense gives him. Its like he wants to go for the juggler all game and presses when he doesn't need to press. I also saw a lot when the pocket was pretty well protected he ran into coverage forcing some bad throws or resulting in sacks. Drew doesn't stand tall in the pocket he's best throwing on the run but sometimes you need to set your feet and drive the ball from the pocket.

      I won't put it all on Drew although I'd like to but like many of you say he's young. Maybe its habits he can't break. Who's to say Drew is coachable? He seems like the kid that when you try and show him something he's like yeah but this way is better. Like a kid that you can't tell anything to. I watch some of his interviews and he comes across brash and kind of cocky. So we don't even know if he's coachable or not. I saw a lot of his QBR ratings on the B/R site and it didn't look good. Furthermore I look right at our division rival with Herbert and how that kid is polished and making good reads and putting up some numbers.

      One passing TD one rushing TD isn't good. I mean he's averaging 1 TD a game or every two games. In a league that caters to Qbs and I watch other teams Qbs move the ball with ease down the field man its cringing what we bring out on the field on Sundays. No one wants a change but if you know early on and signs point to where an upgrade at the Qb is available you have to take it. We have too much talent to waste it on Qb who can't get them the ball.

      Like many others point out. ELWAY....something needs to change in the front office. We are probably stuck with our GM but I think at the first chance as much as some doesn't want to let him go, we need a fresh face in there. It continues to get bad and or stay the same. I can't remember when it improved and year after year the mistakes Elway make show on the field. A change is needed sure but where and how to fix it is the problem. I think it gets worse before it gets better. People got to remember now the film is really coming out on Lock so if he can't adjust defenses will know how to attack him. I said after the New England game I didn't think Lock was the guy. Got a lil backlash from my comment but I said let the season play and you'll see what I mean. Now these next four games will be really telling about Lock and if we struggle well you gotta do what you have to. Its a business and you put the best players or find the best player that can operate this team.

      Right now though my eyes say yikes and then I facepalm. We went through the 09-11 looking terrible for the most part but these times seem really long and its getting hard to watch. This division is getting tough, we got some solid qbs here now so we need to figure out our qb situation and fast.
      That's where you lost me.

      Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

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      • #18
        Originally posted by skeeter01 View Post
        We just played the World Champions......I need to see us play next week, to see where we are before jumping ship with everyone else. The Chargers.....with Herbert.......will be telling.
        I couldn’t agree more. I’m just as frustrated and angry over yesterday showing but I want to see how this team responds to that embarrassing loss.
        The defense overall held their own, despite the offense and special teams spotting Mahomes and co. 14 pts and giving them the ball 4 times.
        We have to win next week though, period. We have four winnable games next four weeks. After those 4 games I believe we will have answers on Lock, Shurmur, McMahon, and this years team.



        sigpic

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Broncos-R-Great View Post

          This is the most likely scenario and it leads to more purgatory. With the amount of bad teams, considering the NFC East could be won by a team that's 6-10 or worse, a 6-10 record might not even get a top 10 pick. With 6 or 7 wins Fangio likely keeps his job and Lock starts next year, because there aren't any other better options, even though the offense was bottom 3 in the league.

          Either win at least 3 of these next 4 games and make an actual push for a Wild Card, or just bottom out and totally suck. 6-10 or 7-9 with another year of horrible offense is about the worse case scenario.
          I know where you are going. Mediocrity is ok one year or two, but even though middle of the pack may sound positive, it does prevent you from landing the best of the draft, and it can make you cautious about further changes. I've seen so many organizations who stay somewhere between poor and good for many years, and though they get decent draft picks, they are not necessarily the kind that change the potential of the team. Whereas I've seen teams like Pittsburgh and Chicago in The NHL, hit near bottom and land great draft picks, who end up becoming stars, and leaders who win. Think Crosby and Malkin, or Toews and Kane. I can think of examples in many sports. And for the sake of being comparable, I leave out NBA given how few players actually play, meaning high picks can change things quicker.

          Regardless of players, high picks or not, it does ultimately matter who is leading the team, including coaches. Not saying we have the wrong guys, but lets just say, if they are not the right guys, it will diminish any talent upgrades in the long run.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by L.M. View Post

            So because we aren't world beaters and were routed by the world champions and other playoff teams we should fire/bench everyone right now? Your expectations need to be tempered by reality.

            Yesterday was a bad game and everything that could go wrong did go wrong, even a PAT from a usually reliable McManus, but the middle of the season is not the time to make all these changes, and probably not at the end of this one either if we want to reap the benefits of stability and continuity.

            Shurmur was a good OC (his track record speaks for itself if you want to look it up) and that's why he won the HC job --that's a different job, you do realize that, right? With such a young offense full of rookies, key starters going down immediately, and no preseason, yeah it's very hard to implement a whole new offense and expect it to thrive. That said, there is room for improvement in his playcalling too -he has to learn what he's working with.

            Drew hasn't played a full season, he needs at least that much -give him a chance to learn from mistakes. He's got the intangibles we want, just needs to refine his skills -like most rookies- and he basically still is one!

            Patience is what's required and that's never been a strong suit for any fanbase -- "NOW NOW NOW I'm tired of waiting, tired of losing! Blow it all up!"

            I agree about Tom McMahon though and it's a mystery why he was retained after last season when ST sucked last year too. This is his third (and hopefully final) year.
            I understand totally that the OC who was was the HC of the NY Giants got fired because let me guess he sucked at his job? The Jokes in NYC was that they just got Shurmured LOL and yet Denver goes on to hire him? Why? There was no reason in the world to hire him however just like getting Falco someone's else's Trash and that he will not be Bad here well I hate to tell you this however have you seen the Offense play this year? Have you seen the ridiculous offensive play calling it is down right offensive to us Fans. 2-4 is 2-4 time to fire and bench a few coaches and Quarterback.

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            • #21
              I agree we've played a number of quality teams already. I would argue that beating The Jets was nothing to boast about, and based on what I saw yesterday, The patsies are no longer relevant.

              2 and 4 is not the end of a season. I think we've all had justifiable reasons for sticking up for the boys, due to the injuries and such. But I think that, beginning now, we should not use those things as reasons for losing. We've got many of the guys back. Other teams have injuries too. Lets see what this team is made of going forward.

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              • #22
                The only change that needs to happen has nothing to do with anyone Coaching or Playing on Sundays. It comes down to how this team is being managed. Until the NFL steps in and forces a change to the ownership make up, we will not have accountability.
                sigpic WHEC-724

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by DENVERSB50CHAMP View Post

                  I understand totally that the OC who was was the HC of the NY Giants got fired because let me guess he sucked at his job? The Jokes in NYC was that they just got Shurmured LOL and yet Denver goes on to hire him? Why? There was no reason in the world to hire him however just like getting Falco someone's else's Trash and that he will not be Bad here well I hate to tell you this however have you seen the Offense play this year? Have you seen the ridiculous offensive play calling it is down right offensive to us Fans. 2-4 is 2-4 time to fire and bench a few coaches and Quarterback.
                  Mike Shula was the OC under Shurmur in NY. Wade Phillips had some unimpressive HC stints that got him fired too but he was better at being a DC, especially for us. Some guys are just meant to be coordinators. Shurmur got the Vikings O into the playoffs and Keenum excelled in that offense --friggin' Keenum! His coordinator resume (which you're still not looking into I see) is what got him hired here. If he had better material to work with, this O would look better, but like I said he needs to do better too. It's his first year here and he walked into a mess. Eliminate rookie mistakes at QB. WR, and C positions with a more competent RT, add a preseason, and this looks totally different.
                  Last edited by L.M.; 10-26-2020, 11:15 AM.

                  Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by L.M. View Post

                    Mike Shula was the OC under Shurmur in NY. Wade Phillips had some unimpressive HC stints that got him fired too but he was better at being a DC, especially for us. Some guys are just meant to be coordinators. Shurmur got the Vikings O into the playoffs and Keenum excelled in that offense --friggin' Keenum! His coordinator resume (which you're still not looking into I see) is what got him hired here. If he had better material to work with, this O would look better, but like I said he needs to do better too. It's his first year here and he walked into a mess. Eliminate rookie mistakes at QB. WR, and C positions with a more competent RT, add a preseason, and this looks totally different.
                    Whether or not he was the OC in NY, getting 24 touches with 12 picks out of Daniel Jones is also turning into resume material.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by L.M. View Post

                      Mike Shula was the OC under Shurmur in NY. Wade Phillips had some unimpressive HC stints that got him fired too but he was better at being a DC, especially for us. Some guys are just meant to be coordinators. Shurmur got the Vikings O into the playoffs and Keenum excelled in that offense --friggin' Keenum! His coordinator resume (which you're still not looking into I see) is what got him hired here. If he had better material to work with, this O would look better, but like I said he needs to do better too. It's his first year here and he walked into a mess. Eliminate rookie mistakes at QB. WR, and C positions with a more competent RT, add a preseason, and this looks totally different.
                      I am sorry however I hated the hire of PS as our OC when he just got fired from the HC position in NY LOL Why get some one else's TRASH??? That is all that PS has been calling is Trash Plays. When the running game is spot on naw lets just ignore it and go to a 3 WR set knowing that we do not even have any WR's and Throw A Bomb with a QB that cannot hit the broadside of barn and you want to dial that up LOL Come On Man !! You may like the Hire of PS I hated it from day 1 and I knew it was a mistake and it is indeed 2-4 should be 0-6 barley beating the Jets LOL and 6 FG's to beat NE LOL All of this comical. You Support him Great I want to see him Fired Even Better Have A Great Day!!

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by DENVERSB50CHAMP View Post

                        I understand totally that the OC who was was the HC of the NY Giants got fired because let me guess he sucked at his job? The Jokes in NYC was that they just got Shurmured LOL and yet Denver goes on to hire him? Why? There was no reason in the world to hire him however just like getting Falco someone's else's Trash and that he will not be Bad here well I hate to tell you this however have you seen the Offense play this year? Have you seen the ridiculous offensive play calling it is down right offensive to us Fans. 2-4 is 2-4 time to fire and bench a few coaches and Quarterback.
                        The problem is that we’ve gone through several coaching changes over the years but the offense continues to be terrible. We keep blaming the HCs and OCs but maybe, just maybe it’s the QB. We’ve gone from Siemian, flacco, Keemun, driskel, Lynch, and now lock. NONE of these guys have gone on to be successful after (except lock for now, of course). I think outside of QB, our offense is the most talented since the manning era, yet we STILL struggle to score. There was a post here saying how drew isn’t taking what the defense gives him and instead is going for the jugular a lot, and that’s what I’ve seen too. He keeps wanting to attack and go deep when it isn’t there Even though we lost Sutton who is our best deep threat. I really want drew to develop and be the guy, but he hasn’t really shown signs of improvement. If anything, I feel like he’s regressed since last season. I’m not a huge fan of Vic but his defense has been solid, and I feel like Pat could have a pretty good offense out there if we had average QB play.

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                        • #27
                          So take away a dumb kick off return, a bad pick 6, and whatever that flea flicker mishap was (OC should be fired for that play alone), and this game was a lot closer than it looked.

                          If Lock could be more accurate and stop staring down everyone I think this season would be different.

                          yea the score was bad but I do think this game was kind of close. We beat ourselves as usual.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Bates View Post
                            So take away a dumb kick off return, a bad pick 6, and whatever that flea flicker mishap was (OC should be fired for that play alone), and this game was a lot closer than it looked.

                            If Lock could be more accurate and stop staring down everyone I think this season would be different.

                            yea the score was bad but I do think this game was kind of close. We beat ourselves as usual.
                            I hate that argument. You could look at literally any game and be like 'well take away A, if we didn't do B and you take away C, we would have won the game'. Haaaaaaate it.

                            You can't look at it like that. Those things happened and we lost. Period.

                            Winnable games left on the sched I see as Carolina and Atlanta. Maybe Buffalo depending on which Buffalo team shows up to play.

                            Having to play the Saints and Chiefs back to back, man, going from one drubbing to another is going to be brutal.

                            I just want them to be smart with whatever draft pick we get and to try and make some moves for the long term future of this team. I have loftier dreams of Elway and Fangio's firings but I know those won't happen so....

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Bates View Post
                              So take away a dumb kick off return, a bad pick 6, and whatever that flea flicker mishap was (OC should be fired for that play alone), and this game was a lot closer than it looked.

                              If Lock could be more accurate and stop staring down everyone I think this season would be different.

                              yea the score was bad but I do think this game was kind of close. We beat ourselves as usual.
                              Flea flicker is not a bad play call, but how often does someone overthrow that!? As I said, everything went wrong that could.


                              Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Megalodon30 View Post
                                No, it doesn’t. The teams we’ve lost to are a combined 22-4 and are all legit Super Bowl contenders. Let’s see how we Dow against teams that don’t have Hall of Fame QBs or reigning champions or are undefeated through 6 games.

                                We’ve beaten the teams we’re supposed to beat and lost to teams we didn’t really have any business competing with yet anyway. This is a young team. We’ve had three different starting QBs in 6 games. We lost our star players for the season.

                                This team will never grow if we just keep hitting the reset button anytime we face a little adversity. Let Lock develop. Let Jeudy develop. Let Chubb develop. Let these guys grow together and learn together. There are a lot of good teams in the NFL and we’ve played half of them this year. We aren’t there yet and we won’t be unless we stay consistent. Otherwise we just end up the Browns.
                                I see this argument so often and it just doesn't make any sense. The Browns had been bad because they continually made bad decisions, then they tried to overcome them with more bad decisions. Who should've they have kept that would've made them a playoff team sooner? After Romeo Crennel was given 4 seasons and was fired in 2008, here's their list of HCs since:

                                Eric Mangini
                                Pat Shurmur
                                Rob Chudzinski
                                Mike Pettine
                                Hue Jackson
                                Freddie Kitchens

                                I ask again, who on that list should they have kept? What about their QBs? Here's their leading passers since 2008 up until Mayfield was drafted:

                                Derek Anderson
                                Brady Quinn
                                Colt McCoy
                                Brandon Weedon
                                Jason Campbell
                                Brian Hoyer
                                Josh McCown
                                Cody Kessler
                                Deshone Kizer

                                So, who should they have kept? Who did they give up on too early? None of coaches or QBs have gone on to do anything in the NFL since (other than gone back to be coordinators). They made terrible decisions, that's why they sucked so long. They had to keep switching QBs and coaches because they were all terrible to begin with, sticking with any one of these guys from these lists wouldn't have changed anything.

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