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  • CanDB
    replied
    Originally posted by Broncos-R-Great View Post

    This is the most likely scenario and it leads to more purgatory. With the amount of bad teams, considering the NFC East could be won by a team that's 6-10 or worse, a 6-10 record might not even get a top 10 pick. With 6 or 7 wins Fangio likely keeps his job and Lock starts next year, because there aren't any other better options, even though the offense was bottom 3 in the league.

    Either win at least 3 of these next 4 games and make an actual push for a Wild Card, or just bottom out and totally suck. 6-10 or 7-9 with another year of horrible offense is about the worse case scenario.
    I know where you are going. Mediocrity is ok one year or two, but even though middle of the pack may sound positive, it does prevent you from landing the best of the draft, and it can make you cautious about further changes. I've seen so many organizations who stay somewhere between poor and good for many years, and though they get decent draft picks, they are not necessarily the kind that change the potential of the team. Whereas I've seen teams like Pittsburgh and Chicago in The NHL, hit near bottom and land great draft picks, who end up becoming stars, and leaders who win. Think Crosby and Malkin, or Toews and Kane. I can think of examples in many sports. And for the sake of being comparable, I leave out NBA given how few players actually play, meaning high picks can change things quicker.

    Regardless of players, high picks or not, it does ultimately matter who is leading the team, including coaches. Not saying we have the wrong guys, but lets just say, if they are not the right guys, it will diminish any talent upgrades in the long run.

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  • 58Miller
    replied
    Originally posted by skeeter01 View Post
    We just played the World Champions......I need to see us play next week, to see where we are before jumping ship with everyone else. The Chargers.....with Herbert.......will be telling.
    I couldn’t agree more. I’m just as frustrated and angry over yesterday showing but I want to see how this team responds to that embarrassing loss.
    The defense overall held their own, despite the offense and special teams spotting Mahomes and co. 14 pts and giving them the ball 4 times.
    We have to win next week though, period. We have four winnable games next four weeks. After those 4 games I believe we will have answers on Lock, Shurmur, McMahon, and this years team.



    Leave a comment:


  • L.M.
    replied
    Originally posted by Broncoyearound View Post
    I'm certainly not calling any game a win, not anymore and not against teams we think are bad. Unless we are playing the jets or the giants. None of the games on our schedule should be circled as guaranteed wins. I don't think its a talent issue. I really don't think its a talent issue. I think we have great weapons on offense. The line has done fairly well in my opinion. If you have an inaccurate Qb botched with the inability to read the field than you have trouble. Drew gets impatient and doesn't take what the defense gives him. Its like he wants to go for the juggler all game and presses when he doesn't need to press. I also saw a lot when the pocket was pretty well protected he ran into coverage forcing some bad throws or resulting in sacks. Drew doesn't stand tall in the pocket he's best throwing on the run but sometimes you need to set your feet and drive the ball from the pocket.

    I won't put it all on Drew although I'd like to but like many of you say he's young. Maybe its habits he can't break. Who's to say Drew is coachable? He seems like the kid that when you try and show him something he's like yeah but this way is better. Like a kid that you can't tell anything to. I watch some of his interviews and he comes across brash and kind of cocky. So we don't even know if he's coachable or not. I saw a lot of his QBR ratings on the B/R site and it didn't look good. Furthermore I look right at our division rival with Herbert and how that kid is polished and making good reads and putting up some numbers.

    One passing TD one rushing TD isn't good. I mean he's averaging 1 TD a game or every two games. In a league that caters to Qbs and I watch other teams Qbs move the ball with ease down the field man its cringing what we bring out on the field on Sundays. No one wants a change but if you know early on and signs point to where an upgrade at the Qb is available you have to take it. We have too much talent to waste it on Qb who can't get them the ball.

    Like many others point out. ELWAY....something needs to change in the front office. We are probably stuck with our GM but I think at the first chance as much as some doesn't want to let him go, we need a fresh face in there. It continues to get bad and or stay the same. I can't remember when it improved and year after year the mistakes Elway make show on the field. A change is needed sure but where and how to fix it is the problem. I think it gets worse before it gets better. People got to remember now the film is really coming out on Lock so if he can't adjust defenses will know how to attack him. I said after the New England game I didn't think Lock was the guy. Got a lil backlash from my comment but I said let the season play and you'll see what I mean. Now these next four games will be really telling about Lock and if we struggle well you gotta do what you have to. Its a business and you put the best players or find the best player that can operate this team.

    Right now though my eyes say yikes and then I facepalm. We went through the 09-11 looking terrible for the most part but these times seem really long and its getting hard to watch. This division is getting tough, we got some solid qbs here now so we need to figure out our qb situation and fast.
    That's where you lost me.

    Leave a comment:


  • L.M.
    replied
    Originally posted by DENVERSB50CHAMP View Post
    2-4 in just unacceptable. Time for yet another Change. Time to Fire the OC who is King of 3 and Outs Still Calling Long Bombs LOL when it is 3rd 4 Over and Over and Over No wonder why he got fired in NY LOL. Time to fire our Awful Special Teams Coach he has a proven track record of just producing the Worst Special Teams ever a 102 Yard Kickoff Return for a TD come on. Time to Bench Drew. Drew is just not the Answer. At Least With Rypien he can accurately throw the ball Drew has ZERO accuracy. Time For Change in Denver Broncos Country.
    So because we aren't world beaters and were routed by the world champions and other playoff teams we should fire/bench everyone right now? Your expectations need to be tempered by reality.

    Yesterday was a bad game and everything that could go wrong did go wrong, even a PAT from a usually reliable McManus, but the middle of the season is not the time to make all these changes, and probably not at the end of this one either if we want to reap the benefits of stability and continuity.

    Shurmur was a good OC (his track record speaks for itself if you want to look it up) and that's why he won the HC job --that's a different job, you do realize that, right? With such a young offense full of rookies, key starters going down immediately, and no preseason, yeah it's very hard to implement a whole new offense and expect it to thrive. That said, there is room for improvement in his playcalling too -he has to learn what he's working with.

    Drew hasn't played a full season, he needs at least that much -give him a chance to learn from mistakes. He's got the intangibles we want, just needs to refine his skills -like most rookies- and he basically still is one!

    Patience is what's required and that's never been a strong suit for any fanbase -- "NOW NOW NOW I'm tired of waiting, tired of losing! Blow it all up!"

    I agree about Tom McMahon though and it's a mystery why he was retained after last season when ST sucked last year too. This is his third (and hopefully final) year.

    Leave a comment:


  • welderhead
    replied
    We've had two successive reasonably good drafts. With a losing year (are there any real winners this year?) we may have another good draft. I like our chances to gel next year. For the remainder of this year I expect to see more of Drew Lock channeling Jeff George.

    Leave a comment:


  • WYBRONCO
    replied
    I will not guarantee any wins. The NFL is goofy. This was really the first time I can say Lock looked to regress from other games. Accuracy was worse in this game, he did have some really nice passes as well. We did just about everything you can do to get smoked by a better team. Long down and distance most of the game on offense. Not shutting down runs on defense. Turnovers and a lot of them. Horrible special teams, though our punter is pretty good. We dropped some balls again too. Chubb getting pissed on the sideline was a good thing, because offensively we were inept too often but we lost focus on Defense too.

    I still want to see us healthy against a non playoff team, we have actually won those games this year.

    Leave a comment:


  • Broncoyearound
    replied
    I'm certainly not calling any game a win, not anymore and not against teams we think are bad. Unless we are playing the jets or the giants. None of the games on our schedule should be circled as guaranteed wins. I don't think its a talent issue. I really don't think its a talent issue. I think we have great weapons on offense. The line has done fairly well in my opinion. If you have an inaccurate Qb botched with the inability to read the field than you have trouble. Drew gets impatient and doesn't take what the defense gives him. Its like he wants to go for the juggler all game and presses when he doesn't need to press. I also saw a lot when the pocket was pretty well protected he ran into coverage forcing some bad throws or resulting in sacks. Drew doesn't stand tall in the pocket he's best throwing on the run but sometimes you need to set your feet and drive the ball from the pocket.

    I won't put it all on Drew although I'd like to but like many of you say he's young. Maybe its habits he can't break. Who's to say Drew is coachable? He seems like the kid that when you try and show him something he's like yeah but this way is better. Like a kid that you can't tell anything to. I watch some of his interviews and he comes across brash and kind of cocky. So we don't even know if he's coachable or not. I saw a lot of his QBR ratings on the B/R site and it didn't look good. Furthermore I look right at our division rival with Herbert and how that kid is polished and making good reads and putting up some numbers.

    One passing TD one rushing TD isn't good. I mean he's averaging 1 TD a game or every two games. In a league that caters to Qbs and I watch other teams Qbs move the ball with ease down the field man its cringing what we bring out on the field on Sundays. No one wants a change but if you know early on and signs point to where an upgrade at the Qb is available you have to take it. We have too much talent to waste it on Qb who can't get them the ball.

    Like many others point out. ELWAY....something needs to change in the front office. We are probably stuck with our GM but I think at the first chance as much as some doesn't want to let him go, we need a fresh face in there. It continues to get bad and or stay the same. I can't remember when it improved and year after year the mistakes Elway make show on the field. A change is needed sure but where and how to fix it is the problem. I think it gets worse before it gets better. People got to remember now the film is really coming out on Lock so if he can't adjust defenses will know how to attack him. I said after the New England game I didn't think Lock was the guy. Got a lil backlash from my comment but I said let the season play and you'll see what I mean. Now these next four games will be really telling about Lock and if we struggle well you gotta do what you have to. Its a business and you put the best players or find the best player that can operate this team.

    Right now though my eyes say yikes and then I facepalm. We went through the 09-11 looking terrible for the most part but these times seem really long and its getting hard to watch. This division is getting tough, we got some solid qbs here now so we need to figure out our qb situation and fast.

    Leave a comment:


  • Broncos-R-Great
    replied
    Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post

    I don't see them going 0-4 over the next 4 either. I suspect they'll figure out a way to eek out at least 2 wins, which will put them at at least 2-2 over the next 4 and 4-6 overall.

    After that, though??

    New Orleans, at Kansas City, at Carolina, Buffalo, at LA Chargers, and Las Vegas.

    At best and with what we've seen from them so far, they may beat Carolina and win one of the last two divisional games. That puts them at 5-11 or 6-10. It's going to be a challenge for them to get to 7-9 or 8-8.
    This is the most likely scenario and it leads to more purgatory. With the amount of bad teams, considering the NFC East could be won by a team that's 6-10 or worse, a 6-10 record might not even get a top 10 pick. With 6 or 7 wins Fangio likely keeps his job and Lock starts next year, because there aren't any other better options, even though the offense was bottom 3 in the league.

    Either win at least 3 of these next 4 games and make an actual push for a Wild Card, or just bottom out and totally suck. 6-10 or 7-9 with another year of horrible offense is about the worse case scenario.

    Leave a comment:


  • mojo0730
    replied
    Originally posted by Megalodon30 View Post

    There is zero percent chance we’ll be 0-4 over the next 4 games and a slim chance we’ll finish that stretch 1-3. We aren’t playing the Steelers or the Chiefs. These are all winnable games and I guarantee we won’t lose all of them.
    I don't see them going 0-4 over the next 4 either. I suspect they'll figure out a way to eek out at least 2 wins, which will put them at at least 2-2 over the next 4 and 4-6 overall.

    After that, though??

    New Orleans, at Kansas City, at Carolina, Buffalo, at LA Chargers, and Las Vegas.

    At best and with what we've seen from them so far, they may beat Carolina and win one of the last two divisional games. That puts them at 5-11 or 6-10. It's going to be a challenge for them to get to 7-9 or 8-8.

    Leave a comment:


  • Megalodon30
    replied
    Originally posted by Broncos-R-Great View Post
    Purgatory.... the third straight year we’re sitting at 2-4 after 6 games. Not bad enough to draft a good QB, not good enough to compete.

    You can’t keep changing QBs and coaches, but how much time to give them when it becomes more and more obvious you made the wrong choices?

    These next four games are crucial, no team over .500. 0-4 over the next four games and they’re likely drafting top 5 and can maybe get a QB. 3 or 4 wins and we’re suddenly above .500 with a shot at a Wild Card. 1 or 2 wins (most likely scenario) and we continue to be stuck in purgatory.
    There is zero percent chance we’ll be 0-4 over the next 4 games and a slim chance we’ll finish that stretch 1-3. We aren’t playing the Steelers or the Chiefs. These are all winnable games and I guarantee we won’t lose all of them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Broncos-R-Great
    replied
    Purgatory.... the third straight year we’re sitting at 2-4 after 6 games. Not bad enough to draft a good QB, not good enough to compete.

    You can’t keep changing QBs and coaches, but how much time to give them when it becomes more and more obvious you made the wrong choices?

    These next four games are crucial, no team over .500. 0-4 over the next four games and they’re likely drafting top 5 and can maybe get a QB. 3 or 4 wins and we’re suddenly above .500 with a shot at a Wild Card. 1 or 2 wins (most likely scenario) and we continue to be stuck in purgatory.

    Leave a comment:


  • mojo0730
    replied
    Originally posted by Megalodon30 View Post
    No, it doesn’t. The teams we’ve lost to are a combined 22-4 and are all legit Super Bowl contenders. Let’s see how we Dow against teams that don’t have Hall of Fame QBs or reigning champions or are undefeated through 6 games.

    We’ve beaten the teams we’re supposed to beat and lost to teams we didn’t really have any business competing with yet anyway. This is a young team. We’ve had three different starting QBs in 6 games. We lost our star players for the season.

    This team will never grow if we just keep hitting the reset button anytime we face a little adversity. Let Lock develop. Let Jeudy develop. Let Chubb develop. Let these guys grow together and learn together. There are a lot of good teams in the NFL and we’ve played half of them this year. We aren’t there yet and we won’t be unless we stay consistent. Otherwise we just end up the Browns.
    Again, I don't disagree with not making any changes this year. A major reason why we are where we are is because we keep cycling players and coaches and coordinators. And again, unless you're going to show Elway the door first - which won't happen for financial reasons regardless of what our record is - then whatever changes you make on the staff or with the players is pointless. Elway and Ellis are by far the only common denominators over the past 5 years.

    However, I don't agree with using the combined record of our opponents as an excuse for our 2-4 start or how inept we look offensively. And I think there is some serious concern about how badly Lock has regressed. He has thrown just one TD pass in 13 quarters this season versus 4 interceptions. That's simply not good enough and if this happens over the next couple of weeks with lesser opponents then the Broncos may need to seriously look at switching to Rypien.

    Leave a comment:


  • coffee
    replied
    I was hopeful this could be a 9-7 or even 10-6 team. Then we lost Von, Kasey and Sutton for the season.
    Then you lose a few other key players for a few games.
    After the first game, this looked like a 3 win team.
    2-4 sucks, but I think a little more time is warranted.

    To be fair, I am not sure Fangio is the long term answer but Elway has put himself in a corner by continuous coaching changes.
    Shurmur doesn't look all that impressive, but I think Sutton would make this O look better.
    Munchak does look like he is living up to his reputation, but I think the OL still needs more time.

    I think Fangio needs to pull out 7 or 8 wins. If this is a 3 to 6 win team, I am not sure you stick with him. That said, I am not sure I want Elway making another coaching selection either....and I am a huge Elway fan.

    Leave a comment:


  • Megalodon30
    replied
    No, it doesn’t. The teams we’ve lost to are a combined 22-4 and are all legit Super Bowl contenders. Let’s see how we Dow against teams that don’t have Hall of Fame QBs or reigning champions or are undefeated through 6 games.

    We’ve beaten the teams we’re supposed to beat and lost to teams we didn’t really have any business competing with yet anyway. This is a young team. We’ve had three different starting QBs in 6 games. We lost our star players for the season.

    This team will never grow if we just keep hitting the reset button anytime we face a little adversity. Let Lock develop. Let Jeudy develop. Let Chubb develop. Let these guys grow together and learn together. There are a lot of good teams in the NFL and we’ve played half of them this year. We aren’t there yet and we won’t be unless we stay consistent. Otherwise we just end up the Browns.

    Leave a comment:


  • skeeter01
    replied
    We just played the World Champions......I need to see us play next week, to see where we are before jumping ship with everyone else. The Chargers.....with Herbert.......will be telling.

    Leave a comment:

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