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  • Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post
    Schurmur needs an extreme talent at QB with extreme talent on the offensive line to run his system the way he intends it to be ran.
    Would that be ideal? Sure. But that’s just not true. Case and point— his miracle work with Bradford and Keenum in MIN. It can work and it’s proven to have worked with non-elite QBs.
    2020 Adopt-A-Bronco: #10 JERRY JEUDY
    Previous Adoptees: #25 CHRIS HARRIS, #38 QUINTON CARTER, #43 TJ WARD

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    • Originally posted by HDbroncos02 View Post
      Would that be ideal? Sure. But that’s just not true. Case and point— his miracle work with Bradford and Keenum in MIN. It can work and it’s proven to have worked with non-elite QBs.
      It worked with them but they kind of went against the system in that Bradford was notorious for checking it down and Keenum kept everyone involved. Murray and McKinnon had a lot of receptions as well as Rudolph. Plus they had 2 elite WRs. The system can work if you have the players to run, unfortunately our guys are not ready for this system yet and he’s been very slow to adjust his offense.

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      • Originally posted by HDbroncos02 View Post
        Would that be ideal? Sure. But that’s just not true. Case and point— his miracle work with Bradford and Keenum in MIN. It can work and it’s proven to have worked with non-elite QBs.
        Was that team attempting to be as high powered as the Chiefs?
        If he’d commit more to run, it may balance things out enough to work in Denver but he’s trying to force a high powered Chiefs like system this season.

        I suspect there’s someone in the cough*frontoffice*cough who was instructing him to go down the field more often than not for most of the season.

        With That said let me correct myself, I am not talking about the Pat Schurmur system in Minnesota, I am talking about the John Elway/Pat Schurmur combination attempting to be ran in Denver right now.

        Plus and dare I say it but Keemun was far more accurate than Lock at this moment in time but hey, you could always advocate for Keenum to be brought back, maybe John will say he’s in his prime to lol
        Last edited by Sam_Z; 12-07-2020, 09:44 AM.

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        • Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post


          Pat Schurmurs system can very detrimental to young quarterbacks, just look at what it did with Daniel Jones in New York last season, compare that to how Daniel Jones is playing now. Not saying he’s great but he’s playing a heck of a lot better.
          I haven't watched Daniel Jones play this year and numbers don't tell the whole story but...

          2019: 24TDs 12 INT 62%
          2020. 8TDs. 9 INT 63%

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          • Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post

            Was that team attempting to be as high powered as the Chiefs?
            If he’d commit more to run, it may balance things out enough to work in Denver but he’s trying to force a high powered Chiefs like system this season.

            I suspect there’s someone in the cough*frontoffice*cough who was instructing him to go down the field more often than not for most of the season.

            With That said let me correct myself, I am not talking about the Pat Schurmur system in Minnesota, I am talking about the John Elway/Pat Schurmur combination attempting to be ran in Denver right now.

            Plus and dare I say it but Keemun was far more accurate than Lock at this moment in time but hey, you could always advocate for Keenum to be brought back, maybe John will say he’s in his prime to lol
            If you watched yesterday’s game and still think he needs to commit more to the run, then I don’t know what to tell you (apart from that last 3rd down at midfield). The last two “real” games against MIA and KC this offense was committed to the run.
            2020 Adopt-A-Bronco: #10 JERRY JEUDY
            Previous Adoptees: #25 CHRIS HARRIS, #38 QUINTON CARTER, #43 TJ WARD

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            • Originally posted by HDbroncos02 View Post
              If you watched yesterday’s game and still think he needs to commit more to the run, then I don’t know what to tell you (apart from that last 3rd down at midfield). The last two “real” games against MIA and KC this offense was committed to the run.
              Against Miami, Denver was 52% run which is perfect balance by NFL standards. Last night, they were 54% run which is still balanced. In the NFL, anything 45/55% either way can be considered balanced. IMO balance is what is needed with plenty of PAP.
              "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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              • This right here is why Pat needs to be fired:

                Broncos are 31st in scoring offense, 26th in passing offense, and 27th in total offense.

                That's all I gotta say. The Numbers do not LIE

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                • Originally posted by HDbroncos02 View Post
                  If you watched yesterday’s game and still think he needs to commit more to the run, then I don’t know what to tell you (apart from that last 3rd down at midfield). The last two “real” games against MIA and KC this offense was committed to the run.
                  He committed to the run game in maybe three or four games this season.

                  This team is 4-8 right now. I’m not saying that he did not commit to the run in the games that they won, I’m saying that if he committed more to the run, meaning throughout more games this season we may have a better record.

                  Yes he committed to the run in the game against Kansas City in an effort to keep Patrick Mahomes off the field however he should’ve taken that same approach with a lot of other games that they’ve already played and lost this season.

                  kind of shows you how much respect he has for the Derek Carr’s, Matt Ryan’s, and Tom Brady’s doesn’t it!

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                  • Originally posted by samparnell View Post

                    Against Miami, Denver was 52% run which is perfect balance by NFL standards. Last night, they were 54% run which is still balanced. In the NFL, anything 45/55% either way can be considered balanced. IMO balance is what is needed with plenty of PAP.
                    There is more to it than just run the ball more. It is also about mixing the runs up and having the backs who are running certain plays the best continue to do that. As an example we saw Lindsay run the ball up the gut OVER and OVER. Yet we never tossed the ball to Lindsay to run to the outside. We also either didn't see good blocking or we saw different types of run plays when Melvin was there vs Lindsay....this was a big issue for me.

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                    • Originally posted by Rich_C View Post

                      There is more to it than just run the ball more. It is also about mixing the runs up and having the backs who are running certain plays the best continue to do that. As an example we saw Lindsay run the ball up the gut OVER and OVER. Yet we never tossed the ball to Lindsay to run to the outside. We also either didn't see good blocking or we saw different types of run plays when Melvin was there vs Lindsay....this was a big issue for me.
                      I know most have a crush on Lindsay because he’s a Denver native but IMO he’s not the guy for this team long term. Not saying Gordon is either, but I think at this point he’s more of a consistent runner than Lindsay is.
                      Last edited by Sam_Z; 12-07-2020, 08:17 PM.

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                      • Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post

                        I know most have a crush on Lindsay because he’s a Denver native but IMO he’s not the guy for this team long term. Not saying Gordon is either, but I think at this point he’s more of a consistent runner than Lindsay is.
                        I think he's a solid back but has an injury problem. He's seemingly never healthy. As for his lack of numbers when he is in, it almost seems like with him they just try to run it up the middle regardless of there being no success. While they(Shumur) runs outside and counter plays for Gordon. Lindsay isn't used in the same way by the looks of it, and maybe needs to be involved in more dynamic plays instead of just try to force it up the middle.
                        With that said, he isn't a great back, but he also isn't bad by any means.
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                        • Originally posted by InsaneBlaze23 View Post

                          I think he's a solid back but has an injury problem. He's seemingly never healthy. As for his lack of numbers when he is in, it almost seems like with him they just try to run it up the middle regardless of there being no success. While they(Shumur) runs outside and counter plays for Gordon. Lindsay isn't used in the same way by the looks of it, and maybe needs to be involved in more dynamic plays instead of just try to force it up the middle.
                          With that said, he isn't a great back, but he also isn't bad by any means.
                          I’ve often wondered why they’re always sending Lindsey up the middle but I guess I always attributed it to the coaching staff having very little faith in him doing anything outside such as short slants it quick pass catching out of the backfield.

                          I really should not suggest this but do you think there is somebody in the organization telling the coaches how to utilize certain players based on the amount of money those players are making?

                          It sure wouldn’t look good to sign a guy like Melvin Gordon and then have Philip Lindsay come out and show him up on game day week in and week out.

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                          • Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post

                            I’ve often wondered why they’re always sending Lindsey up the middle but I guess I always attributed it to the coaching staff having very little faith in him doing anything outside such as short slants it quick pass catching out of the backfield.

                            I really should not suggest this but do you think there is somebody in the organization telling the coaches how to utilize certain players based on the amount of money those players are making?

                            It sure wouldn’t look good to sign a guy like Melvin Gordon and then have Philip Lindsay come out and show him up on game day week in and week out.
                            Thing is he had outside and counter runs his rookie season and he would explode out the back field. Also had some pitches his way, direct snaps, and he caught out the back field. We utilized him a lot and wasn't doing just one thing with him. Outside of injuries, the only thing that's really changed is who the QB is and who is calling plays.

                            I wouldn't be surprised what goes on behind closed doors, but I doubt they are sabotaging him. It almost seems like they think Lindsay is only usable by trying to power up the middle. In reality Denver has 2 solid running backs and aren't using them fully. Not in a % way, bc Denver lately has run the ball more than pass. But just play calling. You look at a team like Green Bay, they find ways to make both Aaron Jones and Jamal Williams work. They have 2 very good backs and use both, and still find time to get AJ Dillon involved..though not a lot, but I think they drafted Dillon as insurance. But stat wise Jones and Gordon are similar in stats. Williams and Lindsay are similar in rushing stats.

                            Yet Packers fans aren't having this conversation....mostly because they are winning games, so nobody is looking for blame, and Aaron Rodgers is Jones and Williams QB, not Drew Lock.

                            We do need to be more dynamic with their usage. If you are an opposing defense and you see Gordon in, you assume he will try for more run options. But when you see Lindsay in the back field, you can guess the play fairly easy and get stops, bc you know he's going up the middle.
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                            • Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post

                              I know most have a crush on Lindsay because he’s a Denver native but IMO he’s not the guy for this team long term. Not saying Gordon is either, but I think at this point he’s more of a consistent runner than Lindsay is.
                              I do not agree. Lindsay's play calls were all runs up the gut in the last game. Why not have Lindsay run the same plays Melvin did?

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                              • Our run game has not been the problem.

                                Multiple people have pointed out how Lock is not seeing the open short routes and regularly going to the low percentage long passes. They showed the season stats in the KC game...Lock leads the league in long passes and is last in the league in short passes. Some people have expressed their opinion that Lock is not going through his reads....locking onto one target. Maybe that is the problem.

                                In the research I did in 2019 Lock made a lot of throws to the short routes. Not sure what changed from 2019 to 2020.

                                We need an offensive coaching system that can recognize the reason we can not pick up first downs is we consistently throwing the long ball. I do not think we even have that in our offensive coaching staff in 2020 from what I have seen other QBs do this year.

                                Elway Vic and Shurmur need to sit down and discuss the reasons we can not even seem to get 10 yards like other offenses. If Shurmur does not have a good plan than he needs to go. If they feel Lock is the problem...he needs to go. Bench him and start Rypien.
                                Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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