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  • It does make me wonder though what is going on in our FO that seems to alienate people, that makes it seem like people don't want to be with the Broncos. Is it an excess of ego, is it ineptitude, is it indifference? This, I think, is why we need a real owner, someone who really cares, like Mr. Bowlen did.

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    • Originally posted by mainBroncos60 View Post
      It does make me wonder though what is going on in our FO that seems to alienate people, that makes it seem like people don't want to be with the Broncos. Is it an excess of ego, is it ineptitude, is it indifference? This, I think, is why we need a real owner, someone who really cares, like Mr. Bowlen did.
      Uncertainty might be the answer. If you're a free agent would you want to play for a team that rotates coaches often? A team that is in full rebuild with no clear signs of getting out of it? A team that seems to not care to re-sign players? The desire to play for the Broncos is likely low. At first it wasn't because playing for John Elway was a good sell. Playing for a team that usually has a winning record is fine. A team with a strong, loyal fanbase that loves its players. There use to be a draw to Denver that is now gone, and it's probably uncertainty.

      NFL players are smarter now and they want job security, and they want a consistent coaching staff. Nobody wants to keep relearning playbooks.
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      • Originally posted by mainBroncos60 View Post
        It does make me wonder though what is going on in our FO that seems to alienate people, that makes it seem like people don't want to be with the Broncos. Is it an excess of ego, is it ineptitude, is it indifference? This, I think, is why we need a real owner, someone who really cares, like Mr. Bowlen did.
        It is all of that!

        It is ego: reportedly agents don’t like Elway’s style of negotiating.

        It is ineptitude: the team’s reputation around the league is we are bad and don’t have the building blocks to meaningfully believe a turnaround can happen.

        It is indifference: if Ellis cared about, he would fire Elway. Not taking necessary action to right the ship is a sign of resignation from ownership.

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        • Originally posted by mainBroncos60 View Post
          Is it just my imagination, or has anyone else noticed that when players, coaches or other staff leave the Broncos organization they do better when they go somewhere else?
          That is negativity bias at play. None of us remember the players that we would like to have kept and who signs elsewhere and flame out, but we do remember the ones going the other way.
          As sure a hand as Elway had from 2011-15 - especially 13-15, it seems like he does not understand the metrics of what makes good coaches and QBs. Tebow was not his choice, and they did not understand why it worked, Manning was a no brainer, and neither needed Fox to do much.

          Getting rid of Kubiak is one of the most idiotic things both Fangio and Elway have done, thoug Fanigo might not have wanted to have a better HC as his OC.

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          • Originally posted by Ear2dastreets View Post

            I have Zach yes but not kyle.....if they are thats great bc that means they will be willing to trade back get picks and still get a qb
            I hope that they wouldn't. I dont think trading back to get a mid round QB is a winning strategy. I think Kyle Trask at 10-15 isn't a reach, but I'd be interested to know what you think of him once you go through his play
            Superbowl 50 Champions!

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            • Originally posted by TheAsianPA View Post

              I hope that they wouldn't. I dont think trading back to get a mid round QB is a winning strategy. I think Kyle Trask at 10-15 isn't a reach, but I'd be interested to know what you think of him once you go through his play
              There is no winning strategy if John Elway is still GM. He has missed big on drafting three early round QBs. Elway is terrible at drafting, especially at drafting QBs.

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              • You can yell fire Elway all you want. Joe Ellis has shown he is pulling most strings and until the ownership issue is resolved things will never change. Ellis will still be defacto owner/GM and hell just hire a yes man to replace Elway and will still be a s*^*tshow.
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                • Originally posted by ChitownBronco View Post
                  You can yell fire Elway all you want. Joe Ellis has shown he is pulling most strings and until the ownership issue is resolved things will never change. Ellis will still be defacto owner/GM and hell just hire a yes man to replace Elway and will still be a s*^*tshow.
                  It’s already a s* show. I agree Ellis burdens plenty of blame. These days, I just refer to the Ellis/Elway tandem as “the FO”. Really, it is a problem from the ownership issues all the way down. This franchise is in dire need of a complete rebuild.
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                  • Originally posted by GiddyupGetEm

                    This isn’t a fairy tale! We have had five straight losing seasons. And there is a human cause. It is the duty of the ownership group to determine that cause. For several years they have glossed over Elway’s failures.

                    Now Elway’s responsibility for the losing team is undeniable. He must be held accountable.

                    Don’t buy into childish narratives.
                    I think the "Syndrome" is for real!!!!!

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                    • Originally posted by Capt. Jack View Post

                      I think the "Syndrome" is for real!!!!!

                      If anything, the fairy tale syndrome is on the other side. People think the hero QB is inherently perfect as a GM. This is a real problem with real causes, and it demands real solutions.

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                      • Amazing that the Broncos appeared in 2 Super Bowls, winning one under this same ownership/GM.
                        Elway's/Broncos last 3 drafts have been good drafts, maybe the biggest mistake was Yiadom, probably was not deserving of a 3rd round pick. Most of the high picks have been relatively successful so far.
                        I do think Elway/Broncos needs to have a good, winning season in 2021 if Elway wants to continue as GM. Same for Fangio.

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                        • Originally posted by brianmcfarlane View Post
                          Amazing that the Broncos appeared in 2 Super Bowls, winning one under this same ownership/GM.
                          Elway's/Broncos last 3 drafts have been good drafts, maybe the biggest mistake was Yiadom, probably was not deserving of a 3rd round pick. Most of the high picks have been relatively successful so far.
                          I do think Elway/Broncos needs to have a good, winning season in 2021 if Elway wants to continue as GM. Same for Fangio.

                          Success is determined by draft position. Undoubtedly, prior to three years ago (your timeline) the early round picks were dreadful...maybe worst in the league.

                          Since then, over the last three years, Sutton is the only early round pick I feel has met or exceeded expectation. Jeudy is looking good, and I am excited to see where he will be in years to come, but you can't give a grade until after the first season I think. But Chubb has not lived up to 5th overall expectation. Fant has not lived up to first round expectation. Risner regressed this year. Lock definitely is not a success.

                          Granted, recent drafts have still been better than 2017 and earlier, but they still aren't solidifying a positive direction for the team.

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                          • Originally posted by Megalodon30

                            Well said. I’m not faulting this year on Elway. It’s been a fluky year all around. It isn’t Elway’s fault half the team is on IR. It isn’t Elway’s fault there was basically no offseason. It isn’t Elway’s fault that young pieces take time to develop.

                            He’s brought in a lot of good, young pieces on offense. I will say he picked the worst time to bring in a new offensive coordinator. Lock was looking pretty confident at the end of last season and we scrapped that for a whole new offense in a shortened offseason. I gotta see what the offense looks like next year after a whole season and hopefully a full offseason before I jump off the Shurmur-Lock train.

                            Shurmur is a decent offensive mind. Lock has shown flashes. This offense will look better when it gets Sutton back. As long as the front office doesn’t get as impatient as the fan base is, we should get to see these young guys blossom into something with great potential.

                            If we move on from Elway, there’s a good chance whoever comes in next blows the whole thing up and we’re starting right from scratch again which could mean another 2-3 years of very mediocre Broncos football. I for one do not want to see more rebuilding.
                            I guess it isn't Elways fault for Joe Flacco, Case Keenum, Paxton Lynch, Trevor Siemian, Vance Joseph either. Or the previous 3 losing seasons. We are looking at another 2 to 3 seasons of mediocre football if we keep Ellis and Elway around. What have they proven from 2016 onward? At any rate, if 2021 is not a winning season i don't see how you keep on Elway
                            Superbowl 50 Champions!

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                            • If Joe Ellis wants to give Elway another extension, I believe the Chiefs, Raiders and Chargers would even be willing to pay for the contract.
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                              • Originally posted by TheAsianPA View Post

                                I guess it isn't Elways fault for Joe Flacco, Case Keenum, Paxton Lynch, Trevor Siemian, Vance Joseph either. Or the previous 3 losing seasons. We are looking at another 2 to 3 seasons of mediocre football if we keep Ellis and Elway around. What have they proven from 2016 onward? At any rate, if 2021 is not a winning season i don't see how you keep on Elway
                                People often mention Vance, but if he was paired with a good offensive coordinator and solid GM, he wouldn't have been bad. Broncos defense was still amazing under him, which was the point, he's a defensive coach. But as mentioned before, you won't see a defensive coordinator as head coach succeed if he doesn't have a offensive coordinator that knocks it out the park on offense. Mike McCoy was his coordinator, whom got fired mid season(27th ranked offense). 2018 the coordinator was Musgrave(24th ranked Offense). 2017 he had Paxton Lynch, 2018 he had Case Keenum.

                                A defensive head coach had Lynch and Keenum as his QB's with 27th and 28th ranked offenses. If anyone expected success they are fooling themselves. Vance was the scapegoat by the fans. He wasn't the problem.

                                The problem is John Elway.
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