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  • Originally posted by TheAsianPA View Post

    I guess it isn't Elways fault for Joe Flacco, Case Keenum, Paxton Lynch, Trevor Siemian, Vance Joseph either. Or the previous 3 losing seasons. We are looking at another 2 to 3 seasons of mediocre football if we keep Ellis and Elway around. What have they proven from 2016 onward? At any rate, if 2021 is not a winning season i don't see how you keep on Elway
    I said “this year.” None of those guys are here this year. I don’t care about looking back, I want to look forward and there is some good young talent on this team. I’m not willing to blow it up because Vance Joseph was a bad hire or because Joe Flacco was terrible.
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    • Originally posted by Megalodon30 View Post

      I said “this year.” None of those guys are here this year. I don’t care about looking back, I want to look forward and there is some good young talent on this team. I’m not willing to blow it up because Vance Joseph was a bad hire or because Joe Flacco was terrible.
      Thats all well and good, but if you dont look backwards to see what you did wrong how do you move forward in the right direction? Bad HC and QB decisions are absolutely what kill you on a GM. You cant just make a flippant remark like it means nothing. We've been a losing team for the last 4 years because of these decisions.

      Basically your logic is this: don't care about the last years because its all in the past, but i actually don't care about this year either because of injuries. So essentially Elway gets a pass no matter what.

      We have young talent that can transition with a new FO. Thats not an excuse to keep a regime that isn't working.
      Last edited by TheAsianPA; 11-22-2020, 05:27 PM.
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      • Originally posted by InsaneBlaze23 View Post

        People often mention Vance, but if he was paired with a good offensive coordinator and solid GM, he wouldn't have been bad. Broncos defense was still amazing under him, which was the point, he's a defensive coach. But as mentioned before, you won't see a defensive coordinator as head coach succeed if he doesn't have a offensive coordinator that knocks it out the park on offense. Mike McCoy was his coordinator, whom got fired mid season(27th ranked offense). 2018 the coordinator was Musgrave(24th ranked Offense). 2017 he had Paxton Lynch, 2018 he had Case Keenum.

        A defensive head coach had Lynch and Keenum as his QB's with 27th and 28th ranked offenses. If anyone expected success they are fooling themselves. Vance was the scapegoat by the fans. He wasn't the problem.

        The problem is John Elway.
        Vance did not handle Time outs well. and did not have the experence i would like from a HC. he has looked better as DC and should have stayed there. he has potential to be a good coach he just needs to grow as a Coordinator then move up from there.
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        • Originally posted by Kyousukeneko View Post

          Vance did not handle Time outs well. and did not have the experence i would like from a HC. he has looked better as DC and should have stayed there. he has potential to be a good coach he just needs to grow as a Coordinator then move up from there.
          There is always gonna be things a rookie head coach is gonna need work on. Growth and experience as a head coach fixes that, not being blamed for the ship sinking and being fired.
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          • Originally posted by InsaneBlaze23 View Post

            There is always gonna be things a rookie head coach is gonna need work on. Growth and experience as a head coach fixes that, not being blamed for the ship sinking and being fired.
            John Elway is the common denominator, he may never step down on his own but he is the common denominator and he should’ve been dismissed two seasons ago if not sooner.

            Vance wasn’t great but he wasn’t as bad as people make him out to be.
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            • Until the ownership situation is sorted out I don’t think firing Elway makes sense. The trust that’s in place likes Elway because he takes pressure off of them. If Elway is fired and his replacement doesn’t succeed then everyone will start looking at them. They are sitting back getting paid. I would love to see the team sold to an owner who has the money and desire to win the Pat Bowlen did when he bought the team.
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              • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
                Until the ownership situation is sorted out I don’t think firing Elway makes sense. The trust that’s in place likes Elway because he takes pressure off of them. If Elway is fired and his replacement doesn’t succeed then everyone will start looking at them. They are sitting back getting paid. I would love to see the team sold to an owner who has the money and desire to win the Pat Bowlen did when he bought the team.
                Robert Frederick Smith still comes up as the most likely candidate in Denver. I’d love for Roger Goodell to buy into the idea and force a sale.

                Pat was a great owner but I just don’t have faith in any of his kids to run the team like he did or like a hungry owner with the desire to win would.
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                • I disagree with firing Elway.

                  He has been instrumental in free agent acquisitions and signings. He has kept our salary cap out of trouble and out of the red. He is an excellent negotiator. He excels in every area except the draft.

                  He just needs his draft privileges revoked. He can’t draft a QB or OL to save his life. The Broncos need a specialist who can evaluate QB talent and one who can evaluate OL talent.
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                  • Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post

                    Robert Frederick Smith still comes up as the most likely candidate in Denver. I’d love for Roger Goodell to buy into the idea and force a sale.

                    Pat was a great owner but I just don’t have faith in any of his kids to run the team like he did or like a hungry owner with the desire to win would.
                    That's the first time I've seen that name mentioned. And although he has the money, unlike any wealthy person actually living in Colorado that would be interested, an estimated price of the Broncos would be over half his estimated net value. Plus he just paid over $100 million dollars to extricate himself from criminal prosecution for dodging taxes with the promise to testify against some other unnamed Billionaire. (President donald trump?)
                    But he does have connections to Colorado from his youth.
                    With that being said, I wouldn't mind seeing the Broncos going to the first Black owner in nfl history, over continuing with the "Joe Ellis train wreck".

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                    • I am wondering how the draft will go, because I am not sure what to expect from Drew these days. Odds are in his favour, as he is so young and relatively inexperienced. Yesterday he starts poorly but has an ok game. That's good.

                      My concern would be that he finishes the season in any form of disappointment, because it does mess with the draft strategy, once again. Do we have to search for yet another QB, or can we move forward confidently with Lock?

                      Lots of games left, so this is not a pressing matter. Hopefully we will see some progress in these last 6 regular season games. That might be all we need to know.

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                      • Originally posted by CanDB View Post
                        I am wondering how the draft will go, because I am not sure what to expect from Drew these days. Odds are in his favour, as he is so young and relatively inexperienced. Yesterday he starts poorly but has an ok game. That's good.

                        My concern would be that he finishes the season in any form of disappointment, because it does mess with the draft strategy, once again. Do we have to search for yet another QB, or can we move forward confidently with Lock?

                        Lots of games left, so this is not a pressing matter. Hopefully we will see some progress in these last 6 regular season games. That might be all we need to know.
                        I think regardless of whether the team thinks Lock is the guy or not, you still have to build the team as if he is. This win almost undoubtedly takes us out of the running for Fields/Lawrence and I don’t think any other QB is an improvement over Lock so we’d be starting back at square one trying to develop a guy that may or may not have it. A lot of pieces are already in place, the only real hole on offense (outside of the QB question) is RT. If that gets addressed, Risner/Glasgow reverse course on their regression, and Cushenberry improves with an actual offseason we will have the best offense and it’ll just be on Drew to make it happen. If he doesn’t then you’ve set your next rookie QB up for success

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                        • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

                          I think regardless of whether the team thinks Lock is the guy or not, you still have to build the team as if he is. This win almost undoubtedly takes us out of the running for Fields/Lawrence and I don’t think any other QB is an improvement over Lock so we’d be starting back at square one trying to develop a guy that may or may not have it. A lot of pieces are already in place, the only real hole on offense (outside of the QB question) is RT. If that gets addressed, Risner/Glasgow reverse course on their regression, and Cushenberry improves with an actual offseason we will have the best offense and it’ll just be on Drew to make it happen. If he doesn’t then you’ve set your next rookie QB up for success
                          This is kinda how I feel about it.

                          If you can’t get Fields or Lawrence, make it work with Lock.
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                          • Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post

                            Robert Frederick Smith still comes up as the most likely candidate in Denver. I’d love for Roger Goodell to buy into the idea and force a sale.

                            Pat was a great owner but I just don’t have faith in any of his kids to run the team like he did or like a hungry owner with the desire to win would.
                            I agree! What made Bowlen great is he was obsessed with winning a SB. We need an owner who will come in and pay to bring in the best football minds and maybe some outside the box thinking. Would love to see it happen soon but I have a feeling we will have another year in 2021 of the same. Probably won’t be a change or clarity until 2022 ( hope I’m wrong).

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                            • Originally posted by Safety View Post
                              I disagree with firing Elway.

                              He has been instrumental in free agent acquisitions and signings. He has kept our salary cap out of trouble and out of the red. He is an excellent negotiator. He excels in every area except the draft.

                              He just needs his draft privileges revoked. He can’t draft a QB or OL to save his life. The Broncos need a specialist who can evaluate QB talent and one who can evaluate OL talent.
                              In 2012-2014 you could have argued this, but we are slowly getting further and further away from that date, and further removed from having Manning (Elway's greatest signing) being in our corner, which was immediate leverage in any negotiation. Now, other areas, re-signing and retaining talent, no, drafting as you mentioned, no, free agency for at least the last 6 years, no, hiring of coaches, no, I am more inclined to ask what would does he do well ?

                              I love how now the blame has now shifted to the ownership, and a few Elway apologists are even predicting no change until that situation is rectified, please. Elway is still trying, how has lack of management affected his ability to perform ? Elway on his exuberant salary still has the cash at his disposal and is just spending it poorly year after year. Elway has still had the same privileges as when Bowlen was around when it comes to the draft, he wasn't good at it then and he remains bad at it now. The fact is an inability to draft by Elway for an extended period has led us here, and as some people have seen now for years, Elway is just not good at his job.

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                              • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

                                I think regardless of whether the team thinks Lock is the guy or not, you still have to build the team as if he is. This win almost undoubtedly takes us out of the running for Fields/Lawrence and I don’t think any other QB is an improvement over Lock so we’d be starting back at square one trying to develop a guy that may or may not have it. A lot of pieces are already in place, the only real hole on offense (outside of the QB question) is RT. If that gets addressed, Risner/Glasgow reverse course on their regression, and Cushenberry improves with an actual offseason we will have the best offense and it’ll just be on Drew to make it happen. If he doesn’t then you’ve set your next rookie QB up for success
                                I tend to agree. As long as he shows a willingness to grow and learn from his mistakes, it should work out well. Sooner or later you have to show patience and build around what you have. There are times that GMs hang on too long because of the investment they made. This is too early in the process for that to be a real concern. Lets hope Lock makes it clear that he is worth the wait. Ha ha, some pros are like children....terrible 2s!

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