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  • I dont think I hate Elway any more than I hate traffic. But he's become an obvious road block, along with Ellis to bringing success to Denver. From Vance Joseph to Shurmur to the long list of failed QBs. The rest of the league looks at us like trash, while the rest of our division looks like they are competing or winning the entire thing, while we hit our 4th losing season in a row. Our identity is a loser franchise to other teams. Really let that sink in.

    His list of mistakes at this point can't be ignored.
    Last edited by TheAsianPA; 12-19-2020, 09:36 PM.
    Superbowl 50 Champions!

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    • Originally posted by Capt. Jack View Post
      I would think 1 more year for all involved, unless they fall under 500 by week 8 next year.
      Why does having a 5th losing season make it impossible over a 4th losing season? Why draw the line there.
      Superbowl 50 Champions!

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      • Originally posted by TheAsianPA View Post
        I dont think I hate Elway any more than I hate traffic. But he's become an obvious road block, along with Ellis to bringing success to Denver. From Vance Joseph to Shurmur to the long list of failed QBs. The rest of the league looks at us like trash, while the rest of our division looks like they are competing or winning the entire thing, while we hit our 4th losing season in a row. Our identity is a loser franchise to other teams. Really let that sink in.

        His list of mistakes at this point can't be ignored.
        I don’t hate Elway, but I hate what he has done to the team. He has failed to live up to HIS OWN STANDARD of “winning from now on.”

        he has drafted terribly, particularly with our 1st and 2nd round picks that are the core of any successful team.

        he has insisted on being the face of management. For 30 other teams the head coach is the face. They know that and expect that duty. When a GM is the face, the best head coaches won’t coach in Denver. The other GM face...Jerry Jones. So Elway is in bad company.

        all our failures, from drafting to free agency to coaching, are all Elway’s fault.

        stop thinking of John Elway the hero from the 80s and 90s and start judging him for his results!!!

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        • Originally posted by TheAsianPA View Post

          Why does having a 5th losing season make it impossible over a 4th losing season? Why draw the line there.
          Just Because every two years we've been getting a new quarterback and coaching staff. I think just let this staff (that is under contract) stick around for one more year.
          I'm kind of getting tired of watching the same old stuff.
          We need a real good game plan moving forward.
          We can't be all willy-nilly firing everybody all the time.

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          • Originally posted by GiddyupGetEm View Post

            I don’t hate Elway, but I hate what he has done to the team. He has failed to live up to HIS OWN STANDARD of “winning from now on.”

            he has drafted terribly, particularly with our 1st and 2nd round picks that are the core of any successful team.

            he has insisted on being the face of management. For 30 other teams the head coach is the face. They know that and expect that duty. When a GM is the face, the best head coaches won’t coach in Denver. The other GM face...Jerry Jones. So Elway is in bad company.

            all our failures, from drafting to free agency to coaching, are all Elway’s fault.

            stop thinking of John Elway the hero from the 80s and 90s and start judging him for his results!!!
            If you stand by what you're saying here....then you have to take other things into consideration......like choosing Von over the D Tackle that everyone thought we were going to pick.......or, creating the most prolific offense Denver has ever had and leading us to a Super Bowl....yes they failed, but immediately turning it around and putting a defense together that essentially won us a Super Bowl. Listen, the Bills won their first Division crown in 25 years......25 years. Please don't respond because there is no response.

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            • Originally posted by Capt. Jack View Post

              Just Because every two years we've been getting a new quarterback and coaching staff. I think just let this staff (that is under contract) stick around for one more year.
              I'm kind of getting tired of watching the same old stuff.
              We need a real good game plan moving forward.
              We can't be all willy-nilly firing everybody all the time.
              Also, whilst not defending some of our abject displays this season, we do need to look at the unusual number of elite teams we have faced this season.

              Of our 9 losses, 7 have been against:
              Titans 9-4
              Steelers 11-2
              Bucs 8-5
              KC x 2 12-1
              Saints 10-3
              Bills 11-3

              We clearly can't compete with these teams at the moment, but that in itself doesn't make us a terrible team. Just an average team that has faced a horrendous schedule.

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              • I was born in 1984 and cant remember a worse stretch of Broncos football in my lifetime. Sure, 2007-2010 was bad, but nothing compared to this. The worst part is back then I could see us turning things around quickly, or at least having hope that we could. Right now I cant see the light at the end of the tunnel. The only thing I'm hoping for is that the ownership situation can be resolved and a new era of Broncos football can begin.

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                • Originally posted by BroncoStampede View Post
                  I was born in 1984 and cant remember a worse stretch of Broncos football in my lifetime. Sure, 2007-2010 was bad, but nothing compared to this. The worst part is back then I could see us turning things around quickly, or at least having hope that we could. Right now I cant see the light at the end of the tunnel. The only thing I'm hoping for is that the ownership situation can be resolved and a new era of Broncos football can begin.
                  It's probably because we changed a lot of things at the same time. An entirely new O, a lot of inexperienced pieces on D, and the less said about ST the better!

                  Usually, these things would be changed gradually over time, but because we have been losing there has been huge pressure to make big changes. Having done this, it will take some time for things to settle.

                  This would have been the same regardless of the ownership or general management issues.

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                  • "Most general managers would be fired after this"

                    "DMac says this 48-19 loss to the #Bills is enough that most general managers would be fired because of decisions made in 2018, and this game leaves the #Broncos with more questions"

                    https://1043thefan.com/2091116/rapid...broncos-bills/

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                    • Denver MUST get a true owner and they Elway MUST be fired.

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                      • Elway successes:

                        Peyton Manning
                        Von Miller
                        Gary Kubiak

                        All above were no-brainers, Kubs was a pal, maybe PM doesn't come to Denver without Elway.

                        Elway failures

                        John Fox, Vance Joseph, Mike McCoy (as OC), Vic Fangio (possibly worst coach in Broncos history).
                        Name a QB: Osweiller, Lynch, Flacco, Case Keassom (sic), missing on Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson.

                        Don't blame Elway for Lock, it was a smart pick at that point in the draft.

                        Theme above: Elway has failed where it mattered most, coach and QB.

                        Love Elway as a player, but as a GM he's a disaster. What did he EVER see in Vance Joseph, Pat Shermer, Mike McCoy, Paxton Lynch, Joe overrated Flacco, Case Keasom (sic) ?

                        Fred
                        Last edited by Fred Williams; 12-20-2020, 08:01 AM.

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                        • John Fox was a successful hire. Just because they lost a Super Bowl doesn’t make it a failure.
                          My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
                          You Mad Bro?
                          Don’t Be A Mean Girl

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                          • Originally posted by Fred Williams View Post
                            Elway successes:

                            Peyton Manning
                            Von Miller
                            Gary Kubiak

                            All above were no-brainers, Kubs was a pal, maybe PM doesn't come to Denver without Elway.

                            Elway failures

                            John Fox, Vance Joseph, Mike McCoy (as OC), Vic Fangio (possibly worst coach in Broncos history).
                            Name a QB: Osweiller, Lynch, Flacco, Case Keassom (sic), missing on Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson.

                            Don't blame Elway for Lock, it was a smart pick at that point in the draft.

                            Theme above: Elway has failed where it mattered most, coach and QB.

                            Love Elway as a player, but as a GM he's a disaster. What did he EVER see in Vance Joseph, Pat Shermer, Mike McCoy, Paxton Lynch, Joe overrated Flacco, Case Keasom (sic) ?

                            Fred
                            I wouldn't call Elway as a GM a' disaster'.

                            I mean - we went to two Super Bowls, winning one of them. For that reason alone, he should never be considered a disaster.

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                            • Originally posted by Peerless View Post

                              I wouldn't call Elway as a GM a' disaster'.

                              I mean - we went to two Super Bowls, winning one of them. For that reason alone, he should never be considered a disaster.
                              Ya you can't be a disaster with 2 Super Bowl appearances, doesn't matter who was on the team, those teams were constructed by Elway. Vance again I will say wasn't even a bad hire, the mistake with Vance was not having a good coaching staff around him. Look at every team that hired a young, inexperienced or rookie head coach, the ones that have been successful or shown signs of potential success in the future, all have good veteran coaches around them.

                              Matt LaFleur whom is offensive minded calls his own plays, but does have a offensive coordinator that has been working with offenses since 2003. He also have a veteran Hall of Fame QB to help him out, as well a well respected, solid veteran defensive coordinator in Mike Pettine
                              Sean McVay was partnered up with Wade Phillips his rookie season as Rams head coach.
                              Sean McDermott had Rick Dennison, someone Bronco fans loved and still has Leslie Frazier, one of the best defensive coordinators the league has had.

                              The point is these teams hired rookie/inexperienced offensive head coaches and partnered them with good, veteran coordinators. While Vance had Mike McCoy(terrible) and Bill Musgrave(lol).
                              We are the team that didn't go with a rookie offensive mind, we went with a rookie defensive minded coach and didn't even give him a good offensive partner. Same can be said for Fangio, but I'd say Rich Scangarello was a good hire and noticeably with him, Lock looked promising. But as someone mentioned in an article, Rich was a great play designer, but play calling was where he needed work.With that said, he was a rookie NFL offensive coordinator, and should have been given time, especially after the offense got a whole lot better with him and Lock than him with Flacco.We also made the dumb move to trade Sanders. A Sutton and Sanders combo with Jeudy in the slot would be a sight to see....assuming we still landed Jeudy.

                              At the end of the day, Denver should had done what those other teams did, get an offensive mind and partner him with a top shelf defensive coordinator. Which both Leslier and Wade are. Pettine is solid, not great. But Aaron Rodgers is your QB, you can make do with solid not great on the defense side. (Yes I know Staley is in as a rookie defensive coordinator now in place of Wade.)

                              Denver had a good defense but didn't have a good offense, it made no season to hire a defensive head coach....twice.
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                              Adopted Broncos:
                              EmmanuelSanders

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                              • Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post

                                Im talking about Johns failures as a GM...

                                Do you not see them? Dude youve gotta accept that hes failed the last five seasons and not by a small margin by huge proportions! Accept it, it is in fact truth!
                                For the sake of this conversation I have put aside the success related to PM and Kubiak. When one does that is becomes clear the failings of the Broncos are not just limited to Elway. The years right before Elway were about as bad as we have seen around in 50 years. The GM years before that are why we sent a two time winning Super Bowl coach packing.

                                You seem to only see what has happened since 2016....I am talking about patterns that have gone on for over a decade now.

                                You still talking like one guy is responsible for all the work, evaluation and advice that goes on in the Broncos. That one guy who has been there for 8 years can explain why this franchise has constantly struggled all things front office for 15 years...arguably more.

                                I do not think just replacing the GM is going to change much is what I been trying to say the last 24 hours on this thread. People seemed so focused and/or emotional about trying to get rid of Elway they seem to think I am arguing to keep Elway.

                                Easy to think there is more emotion and/or tunnel vision here than "accepting the truth"
                                Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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