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  • Originally posted by Hadez View Post

    For the sake of this conversation I have put aside the success related to PM and Kubiak. When one does that is becomes clear the failings of the Broncos are not just limited to Elway. The years right before Elway were about as bad as we have seen around in 50 years. The GM years before that are why we sent a two time winning Super Bowl coach packing.

    You seem to only see what has happened since 2016....I am talking about patterns that have gone on for over a decade now.

    You still talking like one guy is responsible for all the work, evaluation and advice that goes on in the Broncos. That one guy who has been there for 8 years can explain why this franchise has constantly struggled all things front office for 15 years...arguably more.

    I do not think just replacing the GM is going to change much is what I been trying to say the last 24 hours on this thread. People seemed so focused and/or emotional about trying to get rid of Elway they seem to think I am arguing to keep Elway.

    Easy to think there is more emotion and/or tunnel vision here than "accepting the truth"
    The Rich Scangarello fire is proof of your statement on it being more than one person making decisions, as Rich losing his job was not Elway's call but Fangio. That confirms more than one person makes decisions, and I doubt Joe Ellis is just sitting there, he likely makes some choices or sway decisions as well.
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    • Originally posted by Hadez View Post

      For the sake of this conversation I have put aside the success related to PM and Kubiak. When one does that is becomes clear the failings of the Broncos are not just limited to Elway. The years right before Elway were about as bad as we have seen around in 50 years. The GM years before that are why we sent a two time winning Super Bowl coach packing.

      You seem to only see what has happened since 2016....I am talking about patterns that have gone on for over a decade now.

      You still talking like one guy is responsible for all the work, evaluation and advice that goes on in the Broncos. That one guy who has been there for 8 years can explain why this franchise has constantly struggled all things front office for 15 years...arguably more.

      I do not think just replacing the GM is going to change much is what I been trying to say the last 24 hours on this thread. People seemed so focused and/or emotional about trying to get rid of Elway they seem to think I am arguing to keep Elway.

      Easy to think there is more emotion and/or tunnel vision here than "accepting the truth"
      Ok so you wanna talk about Shanahan and McDaniels, I get it but thank goodness Pat Bowlen did what needed to be done there. What’s the point of talking about it now when Pat handled it. That’s what I’VE been trying to express for 24hours... Too had Pat ain’t around anymore otherwise he would take care of John by kicking his butt out the door as well. How dare John do this to Pats team!

      When there is one common denominator in a failing business do you not start there???

      I’ve also been saying for 24hours that it’s not all Johns fault, it’s also Matt Russell and the rest of the front office/Johns hired hands/his inner circle but you still start at the top and that is John...

      We’ve been down this failing road with JOHN
      (not Shanahan or McDaniels, 2004-09 is gone) There’s no more reason to give John another shot to fail just because he’s John, or because Shanahan and McDaniels failed for a combination of 5 years in the distant past, it’s time to accept reality and understand that this is on John and his front office because that is where the failure originates.

      No matter how much you love the entitled arrogance of John and his front office, it’s over and we need to move on even if the next guy fails miserably because I’ll tell you that we won’t and YOU won’t give him 5 years let alone 6 to right this mess that John has created.
      Last edited by Sam_Z; 12-20-2020, 11:48 AM.
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      • Originally posted by TheAsianPA View Post

        Agreed. Without an owner no one is holding the larger actions of Elway responsible. Pat Shurmur, Fangio, Vance Joseph, Scangarello, Joe Flacco, Case Keenum, Trevor Siemian. SB50 happened, and now it is long gone. It bought him time up until now, but because there is no owner, no one, especially not Ellis, is firing Elway.
        Does Elway still have a car dealership? He can go do that I guess.

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        • Originally posted by drhiii View Post

          Does Elway still have a car dealership? He can go do that I guess.
          Nope.

          John had his dealerships for a while but then former Miami Dolphins owner Wayne Huizenga bought the dealerships and operated them in Colorado under John Elway auto nation before ultimately changing to Go Auto Nation when John wanted much more money than originally agreed for using his name.
          Last edited by Sam_Z; 12-20-2020, 02:14 PM.
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          • We get rid of elway we lost our identity. Problems will be fixed hope I’m alive to see them

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            • Originally posted by $Broncos$ View Post
              We get rid of elway we lost our identity. Problems will be fixed hope I’m alive to see them
              I remember reading some journalists take on the super bowl 12 loss that the broncos got rid of their image of ‘ just some team from somewhere up there ‘ , i’d have preferred that image throughout the franchise’s history , it’s interesting ( for me anyway cos i don’t know ) what other franchise would elway have loomed over for nearly 40 years , i partly blame pat bowlen i suspect he’s probably hugely overrated and only bought the team because elway was there already .

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              • I was so excited to see Elway back in the fold when he came in ................and he accomplished winning the SB. Not too shabby. But there's no denying the last what 6 seasons? I know you can't win it every year, but have we seen the kind improvement we can feel good about? ......... no

                I will stay neutral on this I think. John Elway DID bring it home. But ......... where has the Elway magic been the last 6 season?
                The beatings will continue until morale improves....

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                • Most fundamental question to Elway supporters: how many more losing seasons must we endure to convince you Elway needs to be fired?

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                  • Originally posted by TheAsianPA View Post
                    At this point it's clear.
                    I'm of the same mindset, but who would be good to put in that position? You need either an experienced GM who proved he can build a team, or an experienced GM who's just good at business and knows the staff to run the team and select the players. Note that I included "experienced" in both scenarios. Time to stop the earn-while-you learn wishful approach. But, then I have to ask what GM who was successful in either situation would want to come here, considered the ownership instability.

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                    • Originally posted by DiveInstructor View Post

                      I'm of the same mindset, but who would be good to put in that position? You need either an experienced GM who proved he can build a team, or an experienced GM who's just good at business and knows the staff to run the team and select the players. Note that I included "experienced" in both scenarios. Time to stop the earn-while-you learn wishful approach. But, then I have to ask what GM who was successful in either situation would want to come here, considered the ownership instability.
                      Just some names to toss out there would be
                      Rick Smith, Thomas Dimitrioff, Adam Peters.

                      Adam Peters of the 49ers would be my first choice to interview.

                      Thomas Dimitrioff of the Falcons would be number 2.

                      Rick Smith of the Texans would be 3.

                      People quickly forget that Peters was a part of the Broncos staff until John Lynch hired him away but that now looks like a blessing in disguise, imagine Peters trying to learn under Elway the last few years lol

                      Adam Peters is in his 18th season in the NFL and fourth as vice president of player personnel for the 49ers. He joined the 49ers after spending the previous eight seasons (2009-16) with the Denver Broncos.

                      In 2016, Peters was named the Broncos director of college scouting after spending two seasons as the team's assistant director of college scouting (2014-15). Peters spent three years as a national scout
                      (2011-13) after originally joining the Broncos as a regional scout in 2009.
                      Last edited by Sam_Z; 12-21-2020, 01:04 PM.
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                      • Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post

                        Just some names to toss out there would be
                        Rick Smith, Thomas Dimitrioff, Adam Peters.

                        Adam Peters of the 49ers would be my first choice to interview.

                        Thomas Dimitrioff of the Falcons would be number 2.

                        Rick Smith of the Texans would be 3.

                        People quickly forget that Peters was a part of the Broncos staff until John Lynch hired him away but that now looks like a blessing in disguise, imagine Adams trying to learn under Elway the last few years lol

                        Adam Peters is in his 18th season in the NFL and fourth as vice president of player personnel for the 49ers. He joined the 49ers after spending the previous eight seasons (2009-16) with the Denver Broncos.

                        In 2016, Peters was named the Broncos director of college scouting after spending two seasons as the team's assistant director of college scouting (2014-15). Peters spent three years as a national scout
                        (2011-13) after originally joining the Broncos as a regional scout in 2009.
                        Not a bad list. Ownership might make a huge difference in who would be interested in being a GM. Peters knows the fan expectation that is for sure.

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                        • Originally posted by GiddyupGetEm View Post
                          Most fundamental question to Elway supporters: how many more losing seasons must we endure to convince you Elway needs to be fired?
                          1 more 2021
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                          • the team's “ownership” is a board of three trustees led by Broncos CEO Joe Ellis. Prior to his passing, Bowlen's hope was that one of his children would be appointed as the owner of the team, and he put the decision of which child in the hands of the board of trustees.

                            All of the trustee's positions are at Risk, they could LOSE their $$$. Check out what Ellis said also a thought from Elway. This was in 2019

                            https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...n-for-broncos/

                            Myself I wonder what Brittany's thoughts on the direction of the team moving forward. She is a V.P. with the team. Realistically I say Money talks and the team will be sold, there is no way the kids will 100% percent pass on 300 million each. Hope for the best

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                            • Originally posted by DiveInstructor View Post

                              I'm of the same mindset, but who would be good to put in that position? You need either an experienced GM who proved he can build a team, or an experienced GM who's just good at business and knows the staff to run the team and select the players. Note that I included "experienced" in both scenarios. Time to stop the earn-while-you learn wishful approach. But, then I have to ask what GM who was successful in either situation would want to come here, considered the ownership instability.
                              There are tons of qualified candidates. A GM of a football club is a dream job, I like Adam Peter's of the 49ers. A currently successful GM literally has no reason to leave the situation he is in to come here. We are a franchise that has to take risks now because of the bottom dweller status we hold.

                              Its clear that Elway did one thing good, which was make a splash in the community by signing Manning and ride that to two Superbowls. However, what worked in the past for him isn't working anymore. Flaws in the choices of coaches could be overlooked because of how well Manning played, but now we don't have a HoF QB, we have a QB that is literally the worst starting QB in the league. Now problems are appearing everywhere, HC, ST, QB, O line, offensive schemes, FA signing.

                              Its evident that Elway has tried multiple things to fix the ship, but none have worked. HCs, coordinators, QBs, you name it, all have failed in the last 5 years. At some point you acknowledge what he has done and thank him for it, but accept he is done.

                              There is no doubt in my kind that Elway's reputation will forever be tarnished by how he finished as a GM here
                              Last edited by TheAsianPA; 12-21-2020, 10:03 PM.
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                              • It's telling that in Elway's first 5 years as GM the worst incident you could point your finger towards was Faxgate with Elvis Dumervil, but in the last 5 years that list has grown exponentially:

                                - Having Mark Sanchez as your plan to replace Peyton Manning.
                                - Drafting Paxton Lynch because you thought he was great for Gary Kubiak's system without consulting Kubiak.
                                - Hiring a head coach in Kubiak who only lasted 2 years.
                                - Hiring Vance Joseph despite his sexual harassment allegations and no head coaching experience.
                                - The quarterback carousel in 2017.
                                - Attempting to rehire Mike Shanahan without going through the proper hiring process (i.e. the Rooney Rule).
                                - Sticking with Vance Joseph in 2018.
                                - Drafting Bradley Chubb in lieu of any quarterback.
                                - Signing Case Keenum.
                                - Hiring Vic Fangio.
                                - The Kubiak/Scangarello debacle at OC.
                                - Trading for Joe Flacco.
                                - Emmanuel Sanders quitting on the team and subsequently getting traded.
                                - Joe Flacco calling out the coaching staff.
                                - The offensive coache(s) calling out Vic Fangio.
                                - Firing Rich Scangarello after the 2018 season.
                                - Hiring Pat Shurmur.
                                - Drafting two wide receivers in the first two rounds in 2020.
                                - Pretty much this entire season.
                                - Having only two - TWO - first round picks re-sign with the team (Von Miller and Garrett Bolles) in his entire 10 years.
                                - 32-46 record and zero playoff berths over the last 5 seasons.
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