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  • #76
    Originally posted by TheAsianPA View Post

    Haven't we already lost 11 games? 2017 we went 5-11. How would Clough be privy to Elway's contract details is my question
    He’s friends with a lot of inside people and you know they’ll never give up a source, It’s understandable and for good reason but anyway he said 10 in a single season, not sure when Elway resigned but 2017 was only two seasons removed from a super bowl victory, that may had been too soon
    Last edited by Sam_Z; 11-16-2020, 08:07 AM.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by TheAsianPA View Post

      They have a ton of issues, including Minshew. Hes out with multiple thumb fractures, and was never a real investment to begin with being an undrafted signing. They have needs but there isn't a need bigger than QB i would bet.

      If not the Jags, then you have Washington. Then Dallas, then Carolina, then ATL. All may want QB. O just don't see it
      Matt Ryan is not going anywhere, Carolina has teddy and he has been doing good all year, Dallas will be crazy to start over Dak is not the reason its their def, maybe Washington but I think they will ride with what they got.
      Until we get a TRUE qb we will miss the playoffs and be average at best! I'm E2DS and I approve this message!

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      • #78
        Originally posted by TheAsianPA View Post

        Haven't we already lost 11 games? 2017 we went 5-11. How would Clough be privy to Elway's contract details is my question
        I didn’t hear Clough say this, but the inference I got from Sam Z’s description is 10 games or more in 2020.

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        • #79
          Don't worry guys, we will win a couple meaningless game towards the end of the year, the fan base will overreact, Elway will point at this "improvement", and then refuse to address problem areas of the team again in the off-season. Ignorance and losing is now Broncos football. At least Colin Cowherd thought we would be good this year.

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          • #80
            Here is scientific proof John Elway has failed as a general manager. I tabulated all drafts from 2011 (Elway’s first year) to 2019 to see how many picks went on to become First-Team All-Pros and Pro Bowlers (source is Pro Football Reference).

            The results are clear: John Elway has failed to identify game-changing talent in the draft that can sustain the Broncos for years to come. Granted, some of these players made AP or PB with teams other than ones that drafted them—and certainly there is bias in the AP and PB selection process. But overall the findings show a huge deficiency.

            Here are the number of draft picks, number of First-Team All Pros drafted, and number of Pro Bowlers drafted.

            ARI: 68 picks 4 APs 6 PBs
            ATL: 73 picks 2 APs 9 PBs
            BAL: 84 picks 4 APs 12 PBs
            BUF: 68 picks 3 APs 4 PBs
            CAR: 58 picks 4 APs 6 PBs
            CHI: 54 picks 3 APs 9 PBs
            CIN: 84 picks 0 APs 3 PBs
            CLE: 82 picks 1 AP 6 PBs
            DAL: 74 picks 5 APs 11 PBs
            DEN: 70 picks 1 AP 4 PBs
            DET: 71 picks 2 APs 5 PBs
            GRB: 82 picks 1 AP 9 PBs
            HOU: 70 picks 2 APs 6 PBs
            IND: 72 picks 2 APs 5 PBs
            JAX: 64 picks 1 AP 6 PBs
            KAN: 67 picks 5 APs 13 PBs
            LAC: 61 picks 2 APs 6 PBs
            LAR: 78 picks 5 APs 7 PBs
            LVR: 76 picks 1 AP 4 PBs
            MIA: 68 picks 1 AP 9 PBs
            MIN: 88 picks 5 APs 11 PBs
            NWE: 75 picks 1 AP 3 PBs
            NO: 55 picks 3 APs 8 PBs
            NYG: 63 picks 1 AP 3 PBs
            NYJ: 67 picks 2 APs 4 PBs
            PHI: 67 picks 3 APs 6 PBs
            PIT: 73 picks 4 APs 7 PBs
            SF: 88 picks 2 APs 6 PBs
            SEA: 89 picks 4 APs 8 PBs
            TAM: 63 picks 2 APs 6 PBs
            TEN: 68 picks 2 APs 5 PBs
            WAS: 81 picks 0 APs 6 PBs

            The league average is 2.4 All Pros and 6.7 Pro Bowlers per team in the covered period. So statistically speaking, the John Elway left the Broncos 1.4 All Pros and 2.7 Pro Bowlers short of the league average. So the awful team we have today, in large part, is due to the lack of game changing talent that the Broncos would have on the field if Elway drafted as well as even an average GM.

            The failure cannot be denied any longer. Fire Elway to save the Broncos!!!

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Kyousukeneko View Post

              The team has a young QB and seems to be a bad team this year. they can still grow. also i wouldn't call losing by 3 points getting handled.

              Also i wouldn't say Haurbaugh would be my top choice for a coach. i want Eric Bienemy if we move on from Fangio
              As much as Bienemy is the shiny new object that people are fawning over, he would be yet another rookie coach with no HC experience.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by GiddyupGetEm View Post
                Quick reminder. Because John Elway insists on being the face of the franchise, the best head coaches will be reluctant to come to Denver. Head coaches are supposed to be the face of the franchise. They don't like playing second fiddle to the GM. So the Broncos are forced to accept lesser head coaches who are willing to give up prestige and power.

                So the problems with our coaching is directly linked to our John Elway problem.
                Great point! Denver is like the "Island of Misfit Toys" where players and coaches go to become irrelevant. Who would want to join this ****show??

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by darryn16 View Post

                  Great point! Denver is like the "Island of Misfit Toys" where players and coaches go to become irrelevant. Who would want to join this ****show??
                  It's been that way for a while, what relevant players have we managed to bring in during free agency periods over the last several years ? We have overpaid for the likes of Gordon and James, average players in the first place, but we have been an undesirable location since Manning left. There is zero appeal to playing in Denver right now, and I don't think much changes in the near future.

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by johnlimburg View Post

                    It's been that way for a while, what relevant players have we managed to bring in during free agency periods over the last several years ? We have overpaid for the likes of Gordon and James, average players in the first place, but we have been an undesirable location since Manning left. There is zero appeal to playing in Denver right now, and I don't think much changes in the near future.
                    All of this is compounded by Elway’s failure to draft well. You can handle free agency and the cap if you draft well. But if you draft poorly, you pay more to get less in free agency. And you are right, no one is yearning to come to Denver right now. John Elway, Vic Fangio, and Drew Lock aren’t getting free agents excited.

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by darryn16 View Post

                      As much as Bienemy is the shiny new object that people are fawning over, he would be yet another rookie coach with no HC experience.
                      As was Kyle Shanahan, as was Sean McDermott, as was Sean McVay, as was Matt LaFleur...in fact at some point every head coach was a rookie head coach. Nobody came out of the womb an experienced head coach. It's not having an inexperienced head coach thats the problem. It's having a rookie head coach who doesn't have the staff behind him to help the coach learn. When you sign a rookie coach, you sign him to do one job, he has no real control over both sides of the ball, the GM and VP handles drafts, free agents, trade. Your coaching staff should be experienced coaches.

                      Some people will fail, some people will succeed.That's just the natural part of life, not a sign that all rookie head coaches are a bad move.

                      You even see that in other sports. When MLB and NBA teams hire first time coaches, they load up the rest of the coaching spots with experience.
                      sigpic
                      Adopted Broncos:
                      EmmanuelSanders

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by InsaneBlaze23 View Post

                        As was Kyle Shanahan, as was Sean McDermott, as was Sean McVay, as was Matt LaFleur...in fact at some point every head coach was a rookie head coach. Nobody came out of the womb an experienced head coach. It's not having an inexperienced head coach thats the problem. It's having a rookie head coach who doesn't have the staff behind him to help the coach learn. When you sign a rookie coach, you sign him to do one job, he has no real control over both sides of the ball, the GM and VP handles drafts, free agents, trade. Your coaching staff should be experienced coaches.

                        Some people will fail, some people will succeed.That's just the natural part of life, not a sign that all rookie head coaches are a bad move.

                        You even see that in other sports. When MLB and NBA teams hire first time coaches, they load up the rest of the coaching spots with experience.
                        In Denver that is a whole different situation, and what I mean by that is, Denver gave Vic Fangio a seasoned defensive coordinator in Ed Donatelle. Denver also gave Vic Fangio the best offensive line coach in the business. John Elway however can’t get out of his own way nor can get out of his head coaches way.

                        He continues to employ guys like Tom McMahon and Pat Schurmur and signing guys like Menelik Watson, Russell Okung, and Donald Stephenson While refusing to pay his own free agents like Zane Beadles, Matt Paradis and Orlando Franklin. I understand Joe Eliss wants longevity so I don’t expect Pat Schurmur to be fired this season however I do expect something to be done about John Elway.

                        Doesn’t matter if we have a seasoned vet as a head coach or a rookie head coach with seasoned veteran coaches around him, John Elway and his entitled arrogance is always going to stand in his way...
                        Last edited by Sam_Z; 11-16-2020, 12:08 PM.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post

                          In Denver that is a whole different situation, and what I mean by that is, Denver gave Vic Fangio a seasoned defensive coordinator in Ed Donatelle. Denver also gave Vic Fangio the best offensive line coach in the business. John Elway however can’t get out of his own way nor can get out of his head coaches way.

                          He continues to employ guys like Tom McMahon and Pat Schurmur and signing guys like Menelik Watson, Russell Okung, and Donald Stephenson While refusing to pay his own free agents like Zane Beadles, Matt Paradis and Orlando Franklin. I understand Joe Eliss wants longevity so I don’t expect Pat Schurmur to be fired this season however I do expect something to be done about John Elway.

                          Doesn’t matter if we have a seasoned vet as a head coach or a rookie head coach with seasoned veteran coaches around him, John Elway and his entitled arrogance is always going to stand in his way...
                          Exactly right about not paying our own free agents. When you let Franklin, Beadles, and Paradis walk, you must be sure you have an adequate replacement. What does it say about Elway’s drafting that he never pays his own draft picks going to free agency?? And what does it say about Elway that he is unable to find those replacements?? Elway loses on both fronts.

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by GiddyupGetEm View Post

                            Exactly right about not paying our own free agents. When you let Franklin, Beadles, and Paradis walk, you must be sure you have an adequate replacement. What does it say about Elway’s drafting that he never pays his own draft picks going to free agency?? And what does it say about Elway that he is unable to find those replacements?? Elway loses on both fronts.
                            In fairness to Elway, he did pay Damarius Thomas and Von Miller, and neither of those resigns really panned out.
                            sigpic

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Ear2dastreets View Post

                              dont care about no draft picks give it up. Please tell me what has Elway done with all those picks? Idc give up the picks. People want to hold to picks like they are golden. Elway has had a lot of picks and done squat. You think kc cares about the picks they gave up.....or wait does texans.....or atlanta for Julio,....sometimes you have to just go for it and not play it safe. But hey it's JE, still trying to run things the old way.
                              Well Atlanta did that years ago and still can't get the d together. Houston right now is missing picks its gonna be hard for them to go anywhere with that d. Also I feel kc had a playoff caliber team. Same with the other two. We do not and adding a new qb won't fix that right away. I think there's a chance if we did that we could still end up cellar dwellers and giving 2 high firsts that both could be in the top 10 would hurt us alot. We need at least 4-5 positions. We desperately need help at ot Ilb and cb.
                              sigpic
                              oakland raders gm
                              latavis murray trade bait

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Kyousukeneko View Post

                                Well Atlanta did that years ago and still can't get the d together. Houston right now is missing picks its gonna be hard for them to go anywhere with that d. Also I feel kc had a playoff caliber team. Same with the other two. We do not and adding a new qb won't fix that right away. I think there's a chance if we did that we could still end up cellar dwellers and giving 2 high firsts that both could be in the top 10 would hurt us alot. We need at least 4-5 positions. We desperately need help at ot Ilb and cb.
                                Atlanta was in the superbowl a couple of years ago. Their drafting is bad on def. Which has nothing to do with them getting Julio. Texans getting Watson has nothing to do with them missing picks now that has to do with their coach which was fired for JC, Tunsil and Hopkins trade again nothing to do with Watson. K.c had Alex Smith and still took pat.....we can be close. There were a lot of people on here saying we would go 10-6, 11-5,9-7; of course I didn't feel this way due to lock being under center. Getting a qb i truly feel we then will be one draft/year way from being a consent playoff team.
                                Until we get a TRUE qb we will miss the playoffs and be average at best! I'm E2DS and I approve this message!

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