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  • Originally posted by TheAsianPA View Post
    I liked Lock a lot last year, but its becoming clear that our FO is horrible at developing him. On top of that failing to provide a solid O line for years now leads you to today. Taking Hamler over a RT means we see Driskel and Bortles and no Lock development. If we have another losing season, as I suspect we will this year, 2021 may be Elway's last. I dont think a GM can survive 4 losing seasons along with 5 seasons of playoffs missed
    The front office doesn't develop players, they acquire players and coaches develop them. Without an offseason program, it's hard to have developed those players, especially when they're going into a new offense. I'm really not sure how after almost 5 quarters this season you can determine that Lock won't develop? Remember the jump he took last year when he was out injured? He can get back to doing the virtual reality stuff, and figuring things out again. Maybe it won't work, but I think your post is fairly premature.

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    • Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
      The front office doesn't develop players, they acquire players and coaches develop them. Without an offseason program, it's hard to have developed those players, especially when they're going into a new offense. I'm really not sure how after almost 5 quarters this season you can determine that Lock won't develop? Remember the jump he took last year when he was out injured? He can get back to doing the virtual reality stuff, and figuring things out again. Maybe it won't work, but I think your post is fairly premature.
      I certainly don't think it's premature. You know what I mean - FO creates the environment for which a player can develop. He was a 2nd round pick for a reason. He took a jump last season probably because there was no game film on him, and we also played the bottom half of the league in defenses by the time he took over. Lock may pan out, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I like Lock, but you can't ignore that his footwork has not improved, and his deep ball accuracy has seemingly become worse. This is likely because of the constant pressure he faces all the time. This FO yet again did not provide a decent O-line. I made my opinion that Wilkinson would be a sub-par RT and that the FO was making a huge mistake in rolling with him, and most posters decided that Wilkinson was the best Elway could do. I don't believe so. And here we are, Lock 3-6 weeks out, if not IR altogether.

      There's only so much preparing you can do when your RT is an open door and you have no time to make your reads. Lock is not going to develop until this O line is fixed.
      Last edited by TheAsianPA; 09-25-2020, 12:29 PM.
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      • Originally posted by GMTD View Post
        Josh Jones was definitely considered to be one of the best RTs in the draft. And he was available.
        That might be a bit of an overstatement. Josh Jones was the seventh Tackle drafted at #72 in the third round, after Ezra Cleveland and before Lucas Niang. He is currently third string on Arizona's depth chart behind D.J. Humphries, Kelvin Beachum, Justin Murray and Joshua Miles.

        If he was one of the best RTs drafted, wouldn't he have been drafted higher, or be higher than third string right now? Each NFL team passed on him at least once, I think.

        No way of saying for certain, but I'm inclined to doubt if he would be starting for Denver right now. When Denver's O takes the field on their first possession on Sunday, if they are in 11 personnel, K.J. Hamler will probably be with the starting O. Josh Jones was available at #46 as was Ezra Cleveland, but I'm glad they took Hamler.
        "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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        • Originally posted by TheAsianPA View Post
          I certainly don't think it's premature. You know what I mean - FO creates the environment for which a player can develop. He was a 2nd round pick for a reason. He took a jump last season probably because there was no game film on him, and we also played the bottom half of the league in defenses by the time he took over. Lock may pan out, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I like Lock, but you can't ignore that his footwork has not improved, and his deep ball accuracy has seemingly become worse. This is likely because of the constant pressure he faces all the time. This FO yet again did not provide a decent O-line. I made my opinion that Wilkinson would be a sub-par RT and that the FO was making a huge mistake in rolling with him, and most posters decided that Wilkinson was the best Elway could do. I don't believe so. And here we are, Lock 3-6 weeks out, if not IR altogether.

          There's only so much preparing you can do when your RT is an open door and you have no time to make your reads. Lock is not going to develop until this O line is fixed.
          Ja'Wuan James opted out 3 August, if I'm not mistaken. The draft was 23-25 April and free agency began the previous month.
          "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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          • The OL had too many holes to fill them all in 2020...I get why we are here.

            What I do not get is why Wilk is still starting...shoot why he is even on this team as a OT. After 2019 it was obvious to me he does not have the skills to play OT for any team with desires to make the playoffs.
            Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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            • Originally posted by jazzbodog View Post
              I agree. Not sure why some fans want to throw Lock under the bus after two games.

              I'm old enough to remember one other Denver QB who's NFL career didn't didn't start off too well and some fans were wanting to throw him under the bus too. His name is John Elway.

              Patience Bronco nation, patience.


              I think the patience here is a bit thinner than usual because of that QB over in Kansas City.

              While we mess around trying to figure it out, he just keeps racking up wins.

              The pressure is enormous on Lock because even if he is a Top 5 QB in this league, it is not good enough to win the division.

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              • I don't need Lock to be the Best in the NFL, I would like for him to be a good QB, and win more games than he loses. And stay healthy for a full season.
                (I am not sure any QB can stay healthy behind our O- line?)
                Trevor got Squished, as did Flacco and now Lock.

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                • My hope for Lock is that he's another Jim Kelly. Kelly wasn't ever the best QB in the NFL but he was good enough to take his team to 4 Super Bowls...but Lock wins a couple.)

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                  • After watching Driskel, Flacco and Lock all play with basically the same teammates and coaching, I think it's pretty clear Lock is MUCH better at avoiding sacks than the other two. Last week against Pit we gave up 7 sacks. 6 were with Driskel.

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                    • Originally posted by lvbronx View Post
                      After watching Driskel, Flacco and Lock all play with basically the same teammates and coaching, I think it's pretty clear Lock is MUCH better at avoiding sacks than the other two. Last week against Pit we gave up 7 sacks. 6 were with Driskel.
                      Remember, until DL got hurt, over a 4-5 game span I believe, DEN QB sacked least if all NFL QBs with DL starting...

                      Problem with DL is that he’s now been seriously hurt in each of his first 2 seasons and this team is putrid...

                      If DEN goes 3-13 then they probably draft a franchise QB. We shall see what DL is made of then...

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                      • Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post

                        It's been 9 years man, you need to let the Tebow thing go. Especially since he never got another snap at QB in the NFL after 2011. He attempted 8 passes with the Jets, but they were fake punts and gimmick plays. If he were as magical and good as you truly believe, one of the other 31 teams would have given him a job.

                        He was never a franchise QB, nor was he ever going to grow into one. It's also slightly ironic when you talk about Tebow like he was some great QB, but then denigrate Andy Dalton, a player who spent 9 years as a starter in the NFL. If Tebow had been Andy Dalton II he might have been able to catch on with another team, as a QB.
                        Yes, it has been 9 years and nine QBs picked by Elway since then that has failed to make Broncos even marginally relevant (and one very successful future HOF QB).
                        Given that our new "franchise" QB is not really that impressive then we are still back to discussing why we have to suffer through boring football behind someone like Lock. The only QB we have had since Manning that had us in playoff hunt was Siemian, that also got a rough treatment by comparison. This is the same discussions that went on in the Jake/Jay wars discussing whether Jakes wins or Jays yards were the most relevant.

                        This is not a pretty picture
                        Originally posted by Broncos-R-Great View Post
                        Lol

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                        • QB Elway had some rough stats his first 10 games, too, and he had a full off-season and several pre season games of practice, iirc.

                          This is exactly what you get with rookies and near rookies. We all knew there was going to be huge growing pains. This should surprise no one. Be patient. He’ll improve.

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                          • I think Lock will be fine, he has a passion for the game and I believe he wants to be better. He wouldn’t be having conversations with guys like Kurt Warner and Peyton Manning if he didn’t. He just needs time to reverse the bad habits that have developed over the years because his HS and college coaches didn’t want to actually coach him to succeed at the NFL level.

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                            • Originally posted by chessic View Post
                              QB Elway had some rough stats his first 10 games, too, and he had a full off-season and several pre season games of practice, iirc.

                              This is exactly what you get with rookies and near rookies. We all knew there was going to be huge growing pains. This should surprise no one. Be patient. He’ll improve.
                              The problem is when you look around the league most young QBs seen to be playing well. Herbert looks very good, Murray is finding ways to win, Joe Burrow looks good, Lamar is winning, Baker is winning, Allen is winning.

                              The big difference in my eyes is that all those teams have go to guys around them. The young QBs that haven’t looked good don’t have much around them at all. Jones has Slayton who I don’t think is a top option, Haskins had mclaurin but the redskins are a mess, Rosen never had anyone, Darnold has nobody, and Lock has a bunch of unproven receivers around him without Sutton. I’m sure Jeudy and Hamler will develop into good to great WRs but they aren’t there yet. Fant looks good but he’s only had 1 healthy game with Lock and Lock had his best performance that game. Our RBs are solid but aren’t being utilized in the passing game. Look at Watson and the Texans this season, that was a playoff team last season and they have a worse record than us because Watson doesn’t have Hopkins.

                              People can say it’s an excuse as much as they want but imo it’s valid. This is a young team that didn’t have an offseason to install a new offense. They need time together. Playing musical chairs at QB will not get us where we need to be.

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                              • Does anybody think he could have been a little rusty after being out for a couple weeks? And only playing a couple games this year, Then having to play the Super Bowl champs, and then things got out of control and he wound up having a bad game.
                                You got to give the kid a break, He played three games this year. Geez.
                                Can we just wait a couple of weeks until we send the Lynch Mob out for the kid?

                                Last edited by Capt. Jack; 10-27-2020, 05:10 PM.

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