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  • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    I think Lock will be fine, he has a passion for the game and I believe he wants to be better. He wouldn’t be having conversations with guys like Kurt Warner and Peyton Manning if he didn’t. He just needs time to reverse the bad habits that have developed over the years because his HS and college coaches didn’t want to actually coach him to succeed at the NFL level.
    I hear you but just because we want somethings so bad does meant it will happen. Thousands of players want to be in the nfl but didn't have the talent once they got in. Passion + no skills = a problem.

    Again Elway was the 1st overall he is gonna get time not matter what bc of the investment. 2nd round picks dont have the luxury.
    Until we get a TRUE not name "Lock" qb we will miss the playoffs and be average at best! I'm E2DS and I approve this message! "AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW, NOW YA KNOW."

    Comment


    • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

      The problem is when you look around the league most young QBs seen to be playing well. Herbert looks very good, Murray is finding ways to win, Joe Burrow looks good, Lamar is winning, Baker is winning, Allen is winning.

      The big difference in my eyes is that all those teams have go to guys around them. The young QBs that haven’t looked good don’t have much around them at all. Jones has Slayton who I don’t think is a top option, Haskins had mclaurin but the redskins are a mess, Rosen never had anyone, Darnold has nobody, and Lock has a bunch of unproven receivers around him without Sutton. I’m sure Jeudy and Hamler will develop into good to great WRs but they aren’t there yet. Fant looks good but he’s only had 1 healthy game with Lock and Lock had his best performance that game. Our RBs are solid but aren’t being utilized in the passing game. Look at Watson and the Texans this season, that was a playoff team last season and they have a worse record than us because Watson doesn’t have Hopkins.

      People can say it’s an excuse as much as they want but imo it’s valid. This is a young team that didn’t have an offseason to install a new offense. They need time together. Playing musical chairs at QB will not get us where we need to be.
      Yea ummm Watson had years with Hopkins to decide that relationship. We don't know what there relationship would have been this year with lock and Sutton. I disagree the Texans has only scored less than 20 points once this season. Hopkins being there would definitely help but they are losing bc of their def more than Hopkins. Watson is still putting up pretty damn good numbers too. Watson is making them competitive without any kind of def....I bet if Watson had our def their record would be a lot different.
      Until we get a TRUE not name "Lock" qb we will miss the playoffs and be average at best! I'm E2DS and I approve this message! "AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW, NOW YA KNOW."

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Capt. Jack View Post
        Does anybody think he could have been a little rusty after being out for a couple weeks? And only playing a couple games this year, Then having to play the Super Bowl champs, and then things got out of control and he wound up having a bad game.
        You got to give the kid a break, He played three games this year. Geez.
        Can we just wait a couple of weeks until we send the Lynch Mob out for the kid?

        Who cares about last year champs....the raiders definitely didn't.
        Until we get a TRUE not name "Lock" qb we will miss the playoffs and be average at best! I'm E2DS and I approve this message! "AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW, NOW YA KNOW."

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Ear2dastreets View Post

          Who cares about last year champs....the raiders definitely didn't.
          The Chiefs are a very good team. They are the team to beat in the AFC West.
          "Any givin' Sunday" happened when the Raiders beat them.
          Drew Lock has a great opportunity to go to Arrowhead and beat the Chiefs and redeem himself.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Ear2dastreets View Post

            Who cares about last year champs....the raiders definitely didn't.
            And the Buccaneers didn't care that the Raiders had just beat the Chiefs. They just curb stomped them all over Vegas. What's your point?
            Eternal Broncos Optimist

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            • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

              The problem is when you look around the league most young QBs seen to be playing well. Herbert looks very good, Murray is finding ways to win, Joe Burrow looks good, Lamar is winning, Baker is winning, Allen is winning.

              The big difference in my eyes is that all those teams have go to guys around them. The young QBs that haven’t looked good don’t have much around them at all. Jones has Slayton who I don’t think is a top option, Haskins had mclaurin but the redskins are a mess, Rosen never had anyone, Darnold has nobody, and Lock has a bunch of unproven receivers around him without Sutton. I’m sure Jeudy and Hamler will develop into good to great WRs but they aren’t there yet. Fant looks good but he’s only had 1 healthy game with Lock and Lock had his best performance that game. Our RBs are solid but aren’t being utilized in the passing game. Look at Watson and the Texans this season, that was a playoff team last season and they have a worse record than us because Watson doesn’t have Hopkins.

              People can say it’s an excuse as much as they want but imo it’s valid. This is a young team that didn’t have an offseason to install a new offense. They need time together. Playing musical chairs at QB will not get us where we need to be.
              Good post, and even this factor doesn't always ensure success --after all, Peyton Manning had Marvin Harrison and Marshall Faulk in his rookie year and he still struggled and the Colts still went 3-13. It's a process and it requires patience.

              Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Ear2dastreets View Post

                I hear you but just because we want somethings so bad does meant it will happen. Thousands of players want to be in the nfl but didn't have the talent once they got in. Passion + no skills = a problem.

                Again Elway was the 1st overall he is gonna get time not matter what bc of the investment. 2nd round picks dont have the luxury.
                That's not up to you.


                Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Ear2dastreets View Post

                  Who cares about last year champs....the raiders definitely didn't.
                  That still doesn't remove their status as the defending the World Champions (nor the Niners as the defending NFC champs) and those teams are introduced as such at games. And the Chefs haven't lost any of their key players or potency in the offseason, they're still the best. Gruden has been rebuilding the Raiders for several years and it's finally starting to bear fruit, they too are ahead of us and ready to compete.

                  Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by L.M. View Post

                    Good post, and even this factor doesn't always ensure success --after all, Peyton Manning had Marvin Harrison and Marshall Faulk in his rookie year and he still struggled and the Colts still went 3-13. It's a process and it requires patience.
                    Ugh, the Manning comparisons.....

                    Manning struggled for the first 4 games as a rookie throwing nearly half his INTs in those 4 games, in the final 12 games he threw 23 TDs and 17 INTs, pretty insane numbers for a rookie in ‘98. He set pretty much every rookie passing record. If Lock was playing like a rookie Manning right now, we’d all be saying how awesome he is and calling him the next Mahomes.

                    Manning had the 2nd worst defense in the league. Lock has a top ten defense and a running game that’s averaged almost 160 yards a game the last 2 games. Yet he’s still statistically the worst QB in the league in nearly every category.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Broncos-R-Great View Post

                      Ugh, the Manning comparisons.....

                      Manning struggled for the first 4 games as a rookie throwing nearly half his INTs in those 4 games, in the final 12 games he threw 23 TDs and 17 INTs, pretty insane numbers for a rookie in ‘98. He set pretty much every rookie passing record. If Lock was playing like a rookie Manning right now, we’d all be saying how awesome he is and calling him the next Mahomes.

                      Manning had the 2nd worst defense in the league. Lock has a top ten defense and a running game that’s averaged almost 160 yards a game the last 2 games. Yet he’s still statistically the worst QB in the league in nearly every category.
                      Ugh, compartmentalizing stats to skew the picture. He threw 28 picks in his first year, period. And the point is, he struggled as a rookie. That's a fact, and you're in denial of it, because you don't like Lock and you totally lack patience to complete the evaluation period for our rookie. Lock may never become Manning, but he may not be a bust either.

                      Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by L.M. View Post

                        Ugh, compartmentalizing stats to skew the picture. He threw 28 picks in his first year, period. And the point is, he struggled as a rookie. That's a fact, and you're in denial of it, because you don't like Lock and you totally lack patience to complete the evaluation period for our rookie. Lock may never become Manning, but he may not be a bust either.
                        I have nothing against Lock, I like him and I’m hoping he turns it around. I was pushing hard for him to start last year and thought it was idiotic they put him on IR.

                        But, I’m not going to make excuses for him, then dig up some dinosaur stats from Peyton Manning or Elway to try to prove him struggling now isn’t a bad thing.

                        That was a different era of football, it has no barring on today’s QBs. Who cares Manning threw a bunch of picks as a rookie. Let’s discuss some modern QBs (last 10 years) who at one time played as poorly as Lock and were able to turn it around. I can’t really think of any the last 10 years, maybe Josh Allen but he hasn’t looked great the last few weeks. Jared Goff possibly, he’s about a middle tier QB after being the worst in the league as a rookie.

                        Again, I hope turns it around, but with every bad performance that possibility becomes less likely. A couple more bad games and most of his fans will be jumping off the bandwagon.

                        Comment


                        • While it is imperative for Drew to improve and I generally don't want to blame coaching, there are glaring numbers that suggest Shurmur is doing Lock no favors.

                          Personnel Grouping
                          Per Jeff Legwold - "For the season, in the three-wide receiver grouping, the totals are now 13 sacks allowed, 10 interceptions, three fumbles lost and just three TDs scored."

                          Yet, the Broncos are running 3-wides about 64% of the time (I pulled numbers that look like they are not updated from Sunday yet). Using these same numbers, the Broncos QB rating sits at 66.7 with a TD rate of 2.0% and Int rate of 3.2%.

                          While in 2-wides (I roughly combined 12 and 21 personnel numbers), the Broncos have a QB rating of about 94 and a TD rate of 2.8% and Int rate of 0.9% (on 3TDs to 1 Int). Yet they are running 2 wides only about 28% of the time.

                          Under Center vs. Shotgun
                          Pulled these number from a Twitter post:

                          Drew Lock under center: 66%, 1 TD, 0 INT, 105 QB rating.
                          Drew Lock shotgun: 53%, 0 TD, 4 INT, 52 QB Rating.

                          Again using numbers not counting Sunday, the Broncos had run 36% from under center vs. 64% from shotgun.

                          It just seems Shurmur is running the exact opposite of what the Broncos and Drew Lock are good at doing. Coaching should adapt to what the players do best - not force them into a scheme. I think this is especially true when trying to develop a young QB. Hopefully over the next 10 games, Shurmur is willing to adapt his scheme to not only fit what the Broncos seem to de best but perhaps get a better read on Lock's potential.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by neutessa View Post
                            While it is imperative for Drew to improve and I generally don't want to blame coaching, there are glaring numbers that suggest Shurmur is doing Lock no favors.

                            Personnel Grouping
                            Per Jeff Legwold - "For the season, in the three-wide receiver grouping, the totals are now 13 sacks allowed, 10 interceptions, three fumbles lost and just three TDs scored."

                            Yet, the Broncos are running 3-wides about 64% of the time (I pulled numbers that look like they are not updated from Sunday yet). Using these same numbers, the Broncos QB rating sits at 66.7 with a TD rate of 2.0% and Int rate of 3.2%.

                            While in 2-wides (I roughly combined 12 and 21 personnel numbers), the Broncos have a QB rating of about 94 and a TD rate of 2.8% and Int rate of 0.9% (on 3TDs to 1 Int). Yet they are running 2 wides only about 28% of the time.

                            Under Center vs. Shotgun
                            Pulled these number from a Twitter post:

                            Drew Lock under center: 66%, 1 TD, 0 INT, 105 QB rating.
                            Drew Lock shotgun: 53%, 0 TD, 4 INT, 52 QB Rating.

                            Again using numbers not counting Sunday, the Broncos had run 36% from under center vs. 64% from shotgun.

                            It just seems Shurmur is running the exact opposite of what the Broncos and Drew Lock are good at doing. Coaching should adapt to what the players do best - not force them into a scheme. I think this is especially true when trying to develop a young QB. Hopefully over the next 10 games, Shurmur is willing to adapt his scheme to not only fit what the Broncos seem to de best but perhaps get a better read on Lock's potential.
                            Probably because they run those formations less defenses are less prepared for them, as they haven’t seen them much on film. If they flipped it and ran those formations more you’d likely have the same results, just with the numbers flipped.

                            Plus, Lock has just generally been bad, so of course the formations they run more often he’ll look worse in, more chances for mistakes.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by L.M. View Post

                              Ugh, compartmentalizing stats to skew the picture. He threw 28 picks in his first year, period. And the point is, he struggled as a rookie. That's a fact, and you're in denial of it, because you don't like Lock and you totally lack patience to complete the evaluation period for our rookie. Lock may never become Manning, but he may not be a bust either.
                              I totally understand your point. But, in a division that already has Mahomes and Herbert (who has started quickly) he needs to be closer to Manning than a bust real soon. We waited while Osweiler and Siemien teased us with potential so we said give them time. And Lynch never provided any potential to begin with. So, the patience level is going to be low naturally with any drafted QB. I want Lock to be the guy, and I am curious to see how he stacks up against Herbert this week.

                              Comment


                              • If Drew Lock has yet another Let DOWN Performance it might be time to talk about putting in Rypin. The Time For Excuses is over as Noah Fant said it best The Time For Talking is Over Perform or Ride The Pine For Both Drew Lock and the OC who both are the problems and Melvin Gordon UGH The Fumbles Never End What will it Take??

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