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  • Originally posted by L.M. View Post

    What do legitimate reasons (harshly and unfairly written off as "excuses") "excuse" him from and to what 'authority'? Us? The Fans? Please. I'm not giving him anything, because I'm not in charge. I mean, fans here can bench him in their minds right now if they want to (some have) or at the end of the season, but if he shows even moderate improvement --all factors considered, they will probably roll with him into 2021.

    "It doesn't always take time to know it's working" -in what world is that true? Fans are just impatient -- win now, beat playoff teams now, make the playoffs now with a bunch of rookies and a new OC. SMH
    Dwayne Haskins (benched), Trubisky benched, Sam Darnold on trade block. It happens whether you want it to or not. I agree Lock will finish this season barring injury and get the nod if trending up. But, the noise WILL get louder if there isn't improvement this season...win or lose.

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    • Originally posted by Bronco51 View Post

      Dwayne Haskins (benched), Trubisky benched, Sam Darnold on trade block. It happens whether you want it to or not. I agree Lock will finish this season barring injury and get the nod if trending up. But, the noise WILL get louder if there isn't improvement this season...win or lose.
      Darnold in his 3rd year, Trubisky in his 4th. Agreed on the rest.

      Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

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      • Originally posted by Bronco51 View Post

        Dwayne Haskins (benched), Trubisky benched, Sam Darnold on trade block. It happens whether you want it to or not. I agree Lock will finish this season barring injury and get the nod if trending up. But, the noise WILL get louder if there isn't improvement this season...win or lose.
        Washington benched Haskins way to early. Trubisky and Darnold are both multiple years starting before they where benched. Haskins got benched because of the new regime
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        • Originally posted by L.M. View Post

          You've been on Lock's sack pretty hard. Yesterday it was that he only throws to the right -until I linked you to all his other drive charts that indicate he spreads it around. C'mon man. He's not above criticism, but fault-finding to support a premature judgement is really just hating on the guy.

          "Excuses"? I'm so tired of how this word is used around here. Excuses are submitted to an authority to get out of something, like a sick note for school. Who's the authority in this scenario???
          There are reasons and rational explanations for things and the guys with the highest football IQs on this forum analyze and look deeply into subjects to help us understand what's going on, and they rarely ever call for player/coaches/ GMs heads. Ever notice that? Then there are fans who simplistically look at standings and say let's fire/bench/cut everyone.

          "Dinosaur"/different era, right. So you believe that rookies who struggled, learned and grew from their mistakes into good or great players is an antiquated phenomenon. Really.

          This is the concept some of us have offered with examples, not for direct statistical comparisons -those are not necessary. It's simple really: youth, mistakes, learning, development, growth, patience. Some can hack it, some can't. We won't know until they play enough games, including some horrible ones against top tier defenses or playoff teams like the Chiefs, Steelers, Titans and Bucs.

          Here's a Google search link: quarterbacks who struggled as rookies

          And here's one from a couple of years ago:


          There's plenty more.
          Lock isn’t a rookie.....

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          • Originally posted by L.M. View Post

            "True", please. Until Lock has finished 16 games he's a rookie too, in the way that actually matters.

            "Almost". Did Herbert play in a void without the rest of the Chargers? Are Herbert (pick #6) and Lock (pick #42) supposed to be equal? Does every rookie play under identical sets of conditions, and have the same learning curve? If you think so on any of the above then you do not have a realistic perspective and expectations.
            Really look up lock anywhere and the R won't be next to his name and no one calls him a rookie. Rookie doesn't mean 16 games. Does his contract still list in as a rookie?... So I guess the only way any team can be successful is to have 100% of their team healthy 100% of the year....my oh my how does S.f. do it with all those losses they have had. Yes ever player is different what's your point.
            Until we get a TRUE not name "Lock" qb we will miss the playoffs and be average at best! I'm E2DS and I approve this message! "AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW, NOW YA KNOW."

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            • Originally posted by Broncos-R-Great View Post

              Lock isn’t a rookie.....
              I will say this in defense of Lock, he hasn’t played 16 games yet.

              Aaron Rodgers sat for 3 years and after his first year as the starter, there were people saying he was the third best quarterback on the Packers’ roster.

              If he is given time, Lock might prove to be a franchise quarterback.
              My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
              You Mad Bro?
              Don’t Be A Mean Girl

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              • Originally posted by L.M. View Post

                You've been on Lock's sack pretty hard. Yesterday it was that he only throws to the right -until I linked you to all his other drive charts that indicate he spreads it around. C'mon man. He's not above criticism, but fault-finding to support a premature judgement is really just hating on the guy.

                "Excuses"? I'm so tired of how this word is used around here. Excuses are submitted to an authority to get out of something, like a sick note for school. Who's the authority in this scenario???
                There are reasons and rational explanations for things and the guys with the highest football IQs on this forum analyze and look deeply into subjects to help us understand what's going on, and they rarely ever call for player/coaches/ GMs heads. Ever notice that? Then there are fans who simplistically look at standings and say let's fire/bench/cut everyone.

                "Dinosaur"/different era, right. So you believe that rookies who struggled, learned and grew from their mistakes into good or great players is an antiquated phenomenon. Really.

                This is the concept some of us have offered with examples, not for direct statistical comparisons -those are not necessary. It's simple really: youth, mistakes, learning, development, growth, patience. Some can hack it, some can't. We won't know until they play enough games, including some horrible ones against top tier defenses or playoff teams like the Chiefs, Steelers, Titans and Bucs.

                Here's a Google search link: quarterbacks who struggled as rookies

                And here's one from a couple of years ago:


                There's plenty more.
                Funny how all those qbs were top 3 picks in the "1st" lol. Go figure.
                Until we get a TRUE not name "Lock" qb we will miss the playoffs and be average at best! I'm E2DS and I approve this message! "AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW, NOW YA KNOW."

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                • Originally posted by Broncos-R-Great View Post

                  Lock isn’t a rookie.....
                  Originally posted by Ear2dastreets View Post

                  Really look up lock anywhere and the R won't be next to his name and no one calls him a rookie. Rookie doesn't mean 16 games. Does his contract still list in as a rookie?... So I guess the only way any team can be successful is to have 100% of their team healthy 100% of the year....my oh my how does S.f. do it with all those losses they have had. Yes ever player is different what's your point.
                  Technically, he's not a rookie, but essentially he is. He's played only 8.25 games. People here just want to (rather unfairly) judge him like he's had the benefit of time and experience from a full rookie season.

                  Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

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                  • Originally posted by Bronco51 View Post

                    Real soon is this season. Either he's showing you something or he isn't, excuses can be used for every QB. You can't be tempted by potential forever. How long are you giving him? The end of his contract? And folks better also learn that it doesn't always take time to know it isn't working and it's time to move on. It sucks when your team misses on somebody, but it helps if they realize it sooner and try to make corrections.
                    You are soooo correct. Every qb can have an excuse why he is not preforming. If lock is gonna be a qb that is hurt and need 100% of his players all the time to win is not a good look.
                    Until we get a TRUE not name "Lock" qb we will miss the playoffs and be average at best! I'm E2DS and I approve this message! "AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW, NOW YA KNOW."

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                    • Originally posted by Ear2dastreets View Post

                      Funny how all those qbs were top 3 picks in the "1st" lol. Go figure.
                      I think it is interesting how obsessed with first round qbs. Now most the league probably has a qb starting. But Brady was a sixth rounder. Wilson was a 3rd rounder. Rich Gannon was undrafted. All three where a top 5 if not the best qb in the league. Honestly Wilson is playing like the bestqb in the nfl and he was a 3rd round pick. Are you trying to say that only qbs can be got in the first round. Neither Wilson nor Brady carried there team as a rookie. Brady numbers where below average. Yet they both have ended up being great.
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                      • Originally posted by L.M. View Post



                        Technically, he's not a rookie, but essentially he is. He's played only 8.25 games. People here just want to (rather unfairly) judge him like he's had the benefit of time and experience from a full rookie season.
                        How many games did Josh rosen get who was a top 12 pick? Ill wait.
                        Last edited by Ear2dastreets; 10-28-2020, 01:40 PM.
                        Until we get a TRUE not name "Lock" qb we will miss the playoffs and be average at best! I'm E2DS and I approve this message! "AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW, NOW YA KNOW."

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                        • Originally posted by Kyousukeneko View Post

                          I think it is interesting how obsessed with first round qbs. Now most the league probably has a qb starting. But Brady was a sixth rounder. Wilson was a 3rd rounder. Rich Gannon was undrafted. All three where a top 5 if not the best qb in the league. Honestly Wilson is playing like the bestqb in the nfl and he was a 3rd round pick. Are you trying to say that only qbs can be got in the first round. Neither Wilson nor Brady carried there team as a rookie. Brady numbers where below average. Yet they both have ended up being great.
                          They’re definitely the exception though, for every Brady there’s a hundred QBs you’ve never even heard of that were drafted in the 6th or later. Russell Wilson fell because of his height, he was definitely a first round talent in college, he changed the whole system for guys like Baker and Kyler.

                          To get an elite QB, you pretty much always have to spend a high pick, all the rest are lotto tickets with most being losers.

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                          • Originally posted by Kyousukeneko View Post

                            I think it is interesting how obsessed with first round qbs. Now most the league probably has a qb starting. But Brady was a sixth rounder. Wilson was a 3rd rounder. Rich Gannon was undrafted. All three where a top 5 if not the best qb in the league. Honestly Wilson is playing like the bestqb in the nfl and he was a 3rd round pick. Are you trying to say that only qbs can be got in the first round. Neither Wilson nor Brady carried there team as a rookie. Brady numbers where below average. Yet they both have ended up being great.
                            Nope but Wilson came as a rookie 3rd rd and beat out a qb that Seahawks just paid to get from greenbay....took the regins and didn't look back "as a rookie" Brady stepped in for Drew and never looked back. Both of them were trending in the right direction. Big difference...but nice try tho.
                            Until we get a TRUE not name "Lock" qb we will miss the playoffs and be average at best! I'm E2DS and I approve this message! "AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW, NOW YA KNOW."

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Ear2dastreets View Post

                              Nope but Wilson came as a rookie 3rd rd and beat out a qb that Seahawks just paid to get from greenbay....took the regins and didn't look back "as a rookie" Brady stepped in for Drew and never looked back. Both of them were trending in the right direction. Big difference...but nice try tho.
                              I guess the difference is I don't feel lock is trending in the wrong direction. He has came in played 2 of the better defense 1 in a snow game. It feels way to early to say that. Wilson was the real deal for sure. Brady was a bit of a question mark. Either way Lock has had some bad luck. But I don't feel he is trending in the wrong directions. He is making alot of mistakes alot of other rookies try to do. Such as trying to make to much happen. Or not taking what the defense is giving you. I just feel this has already been a scuffed off season and he has played 3 good defenses and 1 above average. I dont feel 8 td 7 ints 60 percent completion percentage and 1600 yards is that bad for a qb starting his first 8 games or at least 8 full games of playing time.

                              Not to mention both the Pats and The Chiefs have preformed as top ten units in this league. The steelers have the best defense in the league this year now he played like 2 downs before injury there. The titans where a bit above average so far as a defense. People are panicking way to early with Lock. He has all the tools and you can see noticeable improve from preseason of his rookie year till now. I think you can see improvement each game. I really feel the key with lock is he had to stop shooting for the stars all the time and sometimes just take what the defense is giving you. Outside of that I feel his throwing motion has improved. His decision making has improved. And I hear great things about his work ethic. Plus he had all the tools needed to be successful in this league. He has good arm strength if not elite. He has good accuracy. He is athletic enough to manipulate the pocket or run for yards if needed. I feel giving up lock would be a huge mistake at this point. Either way if we get top 2 I would consider Lawrence or Fields. But I wouldn't trade up for either. I also wouldn't touch a qb in this draft outside of them. I am not sold on Trey Lance. I have seen Mac Jones or Kyle Trask be listed as first round qbs. Neither I would touch in the first

                              Right now I feel if we got a top 2 pick I would try to move down and pick up an extra first next year.
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                              • Originally posted by Broncos-R-Great View Post

                                They’re definitely the exception though, for every Brady there’s a hundred QBs you’ve never even heard of that were drafted in the 6th or later. Russell Wilson fell because of his height, he was definitely a first round talent in college, he changed the whole system for guys like Baker and Kyler.

                                To get an elite QB, you pretty much always have to spend a high pick, all the rest are lotto tickets with most being losers.
                                I think you could say that about the Qb spot in general they are all lotto tickets. Probably a 50 50 hit even at the higher picks.


                                If I check last year first rounders

                                Kyler was a hit
                                Jones looks like a miss
                                Haskins is a miss

                                The year before

                                Baker looks like miss
                                Darnold looks like a miss
                                Allen looks like a hit
                                rosen was a miss
                                Jackson was a hit for sure

                                So what out of the last 2 years of qbs in the first round it was 3 hits to 5 misses. It is to early to fully judge every one one here but telling me a High round qb is not a lottery ticket seems kinda crazy

                                To hit on an Elite QB you need some luck when your drafting.
                                Last edited by Kyousukeneko; 10-28-2020, 02:07 PM.
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