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  • Originally posted by TheAsianPA View Post

    100% agreed. All the other positions are nice but if you have to change HC's and QB's every two years, none of those matter. Elway has been completely responsible for the collapse this team is in.
    Maybe not an apples-to-apples comparison, but I look at it similarly to Champ Bailey. Amazing player of course, and one of my all-time favorite Broncos. But up until we acquired Peyton Manning we won one playoff game with him as our best player. Or even Von Miller over the past 5 seasons.

    If you're weak at the quarterback position, you can have amazing, hall-of-fame talent elsewhere and it just doesn't matter.
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    • Lock’s statistically the worst QB in the league in pretty much every category. With a running game that rushed for 180 yards each of his last 2 starts and a switch to the shorter passing game, he’s still only completing only 56% of his passes, and has thrown 3 INTs vs 2 TDs, in the last 2 starts.

      They’ve tried to simplify it and turn him into a game manager, yet he’s still struggling. Then top it off with that mask debacle last week, I just don’t think there’s much hope left for Lock.

      There’s some interesting names who could be available in offseason. Guys like Stafford, Wentz, Darnold, or maybe even Dak, all desperately need a change of scenery.

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      • Lock has shown some growth but it gets overshadowed by the bad decisions he makes. He has stood tall in the pocket the last 2 games instead of drifting around. The 2 TD passes were really good throws. Hitting Fant in stride on a streak was a pass he misses early in the season, not sure why we didn’t go back to that later given the defense KC stayed in most of the game. The INTs were backbreaking though especially when you see a guy open right in front of him. I understand that you want to trust your big targets to out jump a 5’8” S but scrambling out to your left makes it extremely difficult to put the ball where you want it as a right handed QB. I wish he’d use his legs more especially when he goes to his left.

        That was a winnable game that we lost because of his 1st INT, Fant not setting up his blocker on that screen, that stupid QB sneak where we motioned Patrick to FB, and Hamler dropping that pass.

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        • Originally posted by Broncos-R-Great View Post
          Lock’s statistically the worst QB in the league in pretty much every category. With a running game that rushed for 180 yards each of his last 2 starts and a switch to the shorter passing game, he’s still only completing only 56% of his passes, and has thrown 3 INTs vs 2 TDs, in the last 2 starts.

          They’ve tried to simplify it and turn him into a game manager, yet he’s still struggling. Then top it off with that mask debacle last week, I just don’t think there’s much hope left for Lock.

          There’s some interesting names who could be available in offseason. Guys like Stafford, Wentz, Darnold, or maybe even Dak, all desperately need a change of scenery.
          I don't think Wentz has recovered from another quarterback filling in and winning the Super Bowl. I think his confidence is shot.

          Darnold is interesting only because I still think he has upside that the Jets haven't really utilized. But I don't know if he's one I would hedge my bet on.

          Stafford and Ryan would definitely be upgrades but unless Denver trades for them they won't choose to come here with Mahomes in the division, I don't think.

          Dak is probably the most interesting because he's still very young and has incredible talent. I just don't see the Cowboys letting him leave.

          But truthfully they have to think of something. They can't go into next year with Lock as the default starter.
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          • Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post

            Seriously, I could care less about re-signing Simmons, Harris, or anyone else. We've been losers with these players and until we find a competent quarterback we'll continue to be losers with or without them.

            And I'm not giving Elway a pass on anything. This has been a historically bad Broncos team for the past 5 years and he's the only common denominator. Yes, he hasn't struck out on everyone but the Broncos have also started the most quarterbacks since Manning retired than any other team in the NFL. He can find an okay running back and a good safety - great! He clearly can't find a quarterback to save his life, which is the one position for which you'd think he'd have the most knowledge.
            Have a nice day.
            "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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            • I think everything was in Lock's favor last night and he still couldn't produce. Our defense was bend but don't break for majority of the game. We allowed a lot of yards but kept having KC settle for field goals. But the offense couldn't produce. The OL looked solid. We ran the ball 33 times, with Melvin turning his 15 carries into 131yards, with the exclusion of Lindsay only turning his 14 carries into 26yrds, the run game was fine. It's the passing game where things weren't clicking. Jeudy was only targeted 4 times, 1 completed. Noah was our best at 7 targets(4 receptions) for 57yrds.

              There is no excuses for last night's lack of passing offense. Lock just couldn't get it done and once more turned the ball over.
              Broncos are 31st in scoring offense, 26th in passing offense, and 27th in total offense.

              A lot of us(including myself) wants to blame Shumur for all of this, but Lock might simply just not be a good starting QB. He might just be one of those QBs who is destined to just be a great backup.
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              • Originally posted by InsaneBlaze23 View Post
                I think everything was in Lock's favor last night and he still couldn't produce. Our defense was bend but don't break for majority of the game. We allowed a lot of yards but kept having KC settle for field goals. But the offense couldn't produce. The OL looked solid. We ran the ball 33 times, with Melvin turning his 15 carries into 131yards, with the exclusion of Lindsay only turning his 14 carries into 26yrds, the run game was fine. It's the passing game where things weren't clicking. Jeudy was only targeted 4 times, 1 completed. Noah was our best at 7 targets(4 receptions) for 57yrds.

                There is no excuses for last night's lack of passing offense. Lock just couldn't get it done and once more turned the ball over.
                Broncos are 31st in scoring offense, 26th in passing offense, and 27th in total offense.

                A lot of us(including myself) wants to blame Shumur for all of this, but Lock might simply just not be a good starting QB. He might just be one of those QBs who is destined to just be a great backup.
                Lindsay and Jeudy were questionable and playing hurt.

                Or, Drew needs to play more, get more experience so that the game slows down for him and he can recognize more quickly what he's seeing. Looks like things are too fast and DCs will put a lot of pressure on him to force an error. If it's true he's had six OCs in the last six years, don't see how seven in seven would help him.

                Drew's problem isn't physical, arm talent, understanding a playbook; it's mental, and that is one area where a young player can improve greatly.
                Last edited by samparnell; 12-07-2020, 11:49 AM. Reason: stuff
                "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                • You can’t just put it all on Lock though. Fant and Patrick are the only targets that don’t dance at the LoS when faced with press coverage. Jeudy takes way too long to get off the line and it’s why he’s had a less than stellar year, same thing with Hamler although he isn’t as bad about dancing as Jeudy is. That’s a small detail but it really throws off your QB’s timing and it makes it hard for your OC to scheme up plays because you only have 2 guys that can really ever be the first read. Defenses aren’t dumb and they’re content to shade towards those guys and let Jeudy/Hamler dance the down away. Hamler did it last night on his 3rd down conversion, he faked an inside release but instead of breaking outside immediately, he gave him another fake to the inside that the DB didn’t bite on. If he doesn’t give that second fake he would’ve had a better angle to turn the corner instead of having to break a tackle to pick up the first.

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                  • Originally posted by samparnell View Post

                    Lindsay and Jeudy were questionable and playing hurt.

                    Or, Drew needs to play more, get more experience so that the game slows down for him and he can recognize more quickly what he's seeing. Looks like things are too fast and DCs will put a lot of pressure on him to force an error. If it's true he's had six OCs in the last six years, don't see how seven in seven would help him.

                    Drew's problem isn't physical, arm talent, understanding a playbook; it's mental, and that is one area where a young player can improve greatly.
                    More time may or may not help Lock's performance.

                    However, he literally is doing nothing well right now. I mean nothing. He is or is almost dead last in every meaningful statistical category and the most points we scored all season was a game in which he did not play. There is nothing you can point to and say "wow he is really good at that". Even the flashes are only for a pass or two, maybe a couple of series. But he has been outright awful consistently all season, and he's repeating the exact same mistakes every game. Like I said, it would be one thing if he put together a string of games in which he looked good, because then you could argue it's just mental or timing or whatever. But each game looks identical to the next, and not in a good way.

                    He may have talent but we certainly aren't seeing it. And lots of QBs have talent, and lots of QBs are highly intelligent. Very few are able to put it all together to be consistently good.
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                    • I think we all need to understand that no Broncos fan is hoping Lock fails because we know the alternatives for 2021 if Lock isn't the guy aren't good.

                      But looking at this objectively, you can't go into 2021 with Lock as the default starter. Again, that would be irresponsible barring a miraculous turnaround over the next 4 games. I think you have to bring in a veteran AND draft someone, and then make it a competition. Lock may be the #1 to start training camp but it needs to be a fair, honest competition. And that may actually benefit Drew in the long run. But if you cycle him back out there in 2021 just wishing he'll be better...I think you'll be in a world of hurt.
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                      • I think Stafford is the option then, unless we can get up and grab Lawrence. Otherwise, we may be stuck giving DL another season.

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                        • Originally posted by fraguela09 View Post
                          I think Stafford is the option then, unless we can get up and grab Lawrence. Otherwise, we may be stuck giving DL another season.
                          Wentz or Stafford really lol. Matt has not done anything in Detroit can't even make the playoffs.

                          Wentz you can't be serious with how he is playing he leads the league in ints...wow

                          I just don't understand some way of thinking.
                          "I'm E2DS and I approve this message 👌"
                          Until we get a TRUE not name "Lock" qb we will miss the playoffs and be average at best! I'm E2DS and I approve this message! "AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW, NOW YA KNOW."

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                          • I'm gonna say it. I told you so I told all yall. Drew lock will suck. He was a avg qb in college. He beat up on the weak teams and sucked vs the good. Now he sucks vs all teams. To all wanna give him another year good we will have another top 10 pick next year too. Im cool with that. This year or next year we will be drafting a qb.

                            "I'm E2DS and I approve this message 👌"
                            Until we get a TRUE not name "Lock" qb we will miss the playoffs and be average at best! I'm E2DS and I approve this message! "AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW, NOW YA KNOW."

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                            • Originally posted by Ear2dastreets View Post

                              Wentz or Stafford really lol. Matt has not done anything in Detroit can't even make the playoffs.

                              Wentz you can't be serious with how he is playing he leads the league in ints...wow

                              I just don't understand some way of thinking.
                              "I'm E2DS and I approve this message 👌"
                              Yeah I'm not down with a Matt Stafford. Only vet qbs I'm willing to entertain is a Prescott or Arod but I don't see the packers letting Arod go at least not this off-season.

                              It's quite the predicament but I stand by and say we have the pieces. So if we had to give up some draft capital to get a good qb so be it. It better be for a top notch guy though otherwise we might have to stand pat and keep Lock and hope for the best. I just don't think Locks ceiling is high. If he can read the field and spread it out I keep referencing an Alex Smith but Lock can't be depended on to carry the offense by himself as of now.

                              Maybe that's what he is. I got him as a game manager and not a Qb that can put the other team away with his arm. He has big flags, I don't know who can correct them but people can't continue to give Lock passes. At some point he has to step up and show he can get it done. The d couldn't have played any better last night and Lock still put up a mediocre performance.


                              Its unfortuunfortunate him but I can't stress enough. If we can upgrade, we upgrade. We don't owe Lock anything he has to earn his starting Qb and with how he's played this season im handing him nothing but an opportunity next training camp to be the guy here. However im looking at Qbs to maybe replace him. I dont think im ready to judge Fangio judt yet. The D has played hard week in and week out. I stand by saying we seem to be a good qb away from really being able to contend and be a playoff team.
                              :go:

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                              • Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
                                I think we all need to understand that no Broncos fan is hoping Lock fails because we know the alternatives for 2021 if Lock isn't the guy aren't good.

                                But looking at this objectively, you can't go into 2021 with Lock as the default starter. Again, that would be irresponsible barring a miraculous turnaround over the next 4 games. I think you have to bring in a veteran AND draft someone, and then make it a competition. Lock may be the #1 to start training camp but it needs to be a fair, honest competition. And that may actually benefit Drew in the long run. But if you cycle him back out there in 2021 just wishing he'll be better...I think you'll be in a world of hurt.
                                I agree. And I've been a Lock fan. The QB position is just too valuable to leave to chance. I know it's not good to compare every one of them to Mahomes, but just look at how that young man controls a game. But short of acquiring that type of talent, which is fine, we can not start 2021 with uncertainty at the helm. We can not "wish" it to work out. This run of weakness at the position is building, and though you need to take care of all positions, this one is just too darn important to hope for the best. And it's cost us too much draft capital and in lost potential in other positions.

                                That's why these last 4 games are, like last year, so important from an evaluation perspective. I'd give Lock all the rope he wants and see what he does with it. The word was out that he was going to work his butt off, and work to improve, and if that's still true, he should show some signs of growth. I just don't want us to be unsure of what's going to happen next season. I'd rather he be deemed "the guy", or "unlikely to be the guy", than have us caught in between, and settling for medium quality at best. Like a later draft pick, or another low grade vet.

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