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  • Originally posted by L.M. View Post

    I know the reference well...and then the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch skit went off in my head shortly after, and now I can't get rid of it! "Bless this, O Lord, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy."


    You got it! Can you dial up Tim, too?
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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    • Originally posted by samparnell View Post

      Oh, wow! What a great idea! Trade everybody! Trade a bunch of guys who are proven players in order to get #1 in the draft to pick a quarterback who will win the Super Bowl like JaMarcus Russell (#1 in 2007), Matt Ryan (#3 in 2008), Matthew Stafford (#1 in 2009), Sam Bradford (#1 in 2010), Cam Newton (#1 in 2011), Andrew Luck (#1 in 2012), Robert Griffin III (#2 in 2012), Blake Bortles (#3 in 2014), Jameis Winston (#1 in 2015), Marcus Mariota (#2 in 2015), Jared Goff (#1 in 2016), Carson Wentz (#2 in 2016), Mitchell Trubisky (#2 in 2017), Baker Mayfield (#1 in 2018), Sam Darnold (#3 in 2018), Kyler Murray (#1 in 2019), Joe Burrow (#1 in 2020)

      Oh, wait! None of these guys has won a Super Bowl ... yet.

      When was the last time a team quarterbacked by a guy who was drafted #1, #2 or #3 won a Super Bowl?

      Trading "anything and everything" for a #1 pick to get a QB reminds me of Heckle and Jeckle or Jeremy in The Secret of NIMH.
      It's all relative. It matters not if it's #1 overall pick, it's who the player is. If you can acquire someone like Mahomes, whether he went #1 or not, in hindsight it would be worth a load of investment. Maybe not as much as Andrew is offering, but I would not compare all of the past young men in this way. And not everyone wins a SB. And though a great QB, the most important position on the field, and maybe in any team game, can greatly enhance your chances of success, it's not all on him. Marino didn't one. But a player like him today would be worth some heavy duty trade value. If you can land that 10 plus year franchise QB, you can build a lot around them. Success is not necessarily winning a SB. It's being competitive for long durations, and being a contender. Championships are a step up no doubt, but again, I'd rather be a contender because of some risk-taking then spend years trying to find the lead guy.

      So if Andrew thinks Lawrence, or maybe even Fields, is going to be dominant, and if we don't have a franchise QB on the roster, who knows how long it will take for us to find one?? Do we enjoy this cycle of choosing mid tier draftee QBs and/or so so vets? That formula can be very costly.

      BTW, I would not be using the "won a SB" validation with all the names you mention. Ryan was in a SB, and if not for coaching, he wins one. Stafford has been a worthy franchise QB but playing on the wrong type of team who seem to not understand how to run a team. Cam Newton was in a SB, and the good news, a better team won. Andrew Luck, if not for injury, was a high quality player who I thought was one year from a real run. Wentz was a stud and if not for injury, might have played in The SB...though he did get a ring. Goff made it to the SB, and could reach another one. Mayfield may progress a little, and his team is playing great ball, so we can't count them out. Murray was a great pick! And so was Joe Burrow. He had a really good rookie season, and with not much Oline help. So that SB win factor needs to be re-evaluated within the context of what the players brought to the team. Sure, some of those players did not pan out. But everyone was touting Burrow, and they were correct about his rookie impact. And if Lawrence for example is so highly regarded, and a team is looking flat, make a reasonable offer. Not sell the farm type, in my opinion, but sometimes you weigh a trade by who got the best player, and then some....and that might equate to more than some want to risk.
      Last edited by CanDB; 12-08-2020, 11:26 AM.

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      • This Thread is getting a little hysterical.
        Drew Lock is the Starting QB right now.
        I hope he improves, and we win some games.
        All the hypotheticals are getting way overblown.

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        • Originally posted by samparnell View Post

          You got it! Can you dial up Tim, too?


          Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

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          • One of the telling things about Lock is he would rather throw a pick than throw it out of bounds or take a sack. Those last 2 are obviously veteran moves to make, but I'd say throwing it out of bounds is the one that younger players should catch on faster. Taking a sack is a hard one bc you're getting hit and losing yards...but losing yards is better than just throwing a pick. We often see Rodgers, Brady, even Manning, guys we all agree are the best brains in league history at the position. You'd see them be in a tough situation and just go down. Be it at the line of scrimmage so it's not a loss, take a few yards loss, or in some cases for Rodgers, he'd try to gain a yard or 2 and then go down himself.

            We saw Lock under pressure against KC, get out of it for the most part, then chuck it at a wide out that had 3 Chiefs around him...it became a INT. When you look at that play, there is room ahead of Lock to just run and gain 4-5yrds. It was on 2nd and 9. So we're talking about potentially 3rd and 4 vs an interception.

            I don't think you can say it's okay for him to make that mistake. By now, he should at least be going for that run. It was the kind of play where we've seen even Peyton Manning run and that man had about as much speed as a toddler.
            Last edited by InsaneBlaze23; 12-08-2020, 12:23 PM.
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            • Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post

              More time may or may not help Lock's performance.

              However, he literally is doing nothing well right now. I mean nothing.
              Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
              I think we all need to understand that no Broncos fan is hoping Lock fails because we know the alternatives for 2021 if Lock isn't the guy aren't good.

              But looking at this objectively, you can't go into 2021 with Lock as the default starter.
              Wow, " literally nothing"! Every pass play is literally an incompletion, fumble, or pick! I must have hallucinated the 264 completions, 44 rushes, 18 touchdowns (two he rushed for), three game winning drives (two of which were 4th quarter comebacks) that he did in his 13.2 games.

              Objectivity and hyperbole are mutually exclusive.



              Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

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              • Originally posted by Hadez View Post

                An NFL offense needs to make first downs and be opportunist at deep balls. Lock definitely does not seem to understand this right now. It possibly could be the offensive coaching.

                They showed the stat in the KC game that Lock leads the league in long throws and is last in the league in short throws. Multiple people have pointed out for weeks now that Lock is not throwing the ball to open guys short...sometimes for first downs....and instead throwing the ball deep.

                This alone would explain the interceptions. These long passes Lock has seemed to want to throw all season are more likely to get picked off.

                Some people have suggested Lock is not going through his reads.....he is locking onto one or two guys and forcing the ball there.

                My opinion is this is the offensive coaching based on what I saw Lock do in 2019 and what I see other Bronco QBs do in 2020. If it is Lock imo he needs to be benched right now to send him a message...maybe allow him to start again in a week or two if the coaches feel he got the message.
                Coaching is absolutely a part of it, Lock passed on a lot of open deep shots last season for shorter passes. I’m very curious to know what they’re telling him after these INTs. Is it more like if you placed the ball here it would’ve been completed or are they telling him hey you had this guy much shorter with a step on a defender? I have a hard time believing it’s the latter considering how often we’ve seen him pass on those shorter throws.

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                • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

                  Coaching is absolutely a part of it, Lock passed on a lot of open deep shots last season for shorter passes. I’m very curious to know what they’re telling him after these INTs. Is it more like if you placed the ball here it would’ve been completed or are they telling him hey you had this guy much shorter with a step on a defender? I have a hard time believing it’s the latter considering how often we’ve seen him pass on those shorter throws.
                  i seen a view the other day that makes some sense

                  the guy stated that in college with a inferior team in the SEC, Lock had, HAD to be the playmaker, he had to make something happen, if he couldnt find some plays the team couldnt win

                  and now with the backs against the wall, learning a new offense, with a #1 wr that was undrafted, losing the probowl WR sutton and playing with two rookie wrs Lock is stuck in in the mentality that he has to make a play, he cant take the check down, he has to, like in college...make a play

                  the coaches need to get him out of that mindset, they need to target juedy more, and focus on getting fant the ball...with quick short passes
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                  • Originally posted by InsaneBlaze23 View Post
                    One of the telling things about Lock is he would rather throw a pick than throw it out of bounds or take a sack. Those last 2 are obviously veteran moves to make, but I'd say throwing it out of bounds is the one that younger players should cast on faster. Taking a sack is a hard one bc you're getting hit and losing yards...but losing yards is better than just throwing a pick. We often see Rodgers, Brady, even Manning, guys we all agree are the best brains in league history at the position. You'd see them be in a tough situation and just go down. Be it at the line of scrimmage so it's not a loss, take a few yards loss, or in some cases for Rodgers, he'd try to gain a yard or 2 and then go down himself.

                    We saw Lock under pressure against KC, get out of it for the most part, then chuck it at a wide out that had 3 Chiefs around him...it became a INT. When you look at that play, there is room ahead of Lock to just run and gain 4-5yrds. It was on 2nd and 9. So we're talking about potentially 3rd and 4 vs an interception.

                    I don't think you can say it's okay for him to make that mistake. By now, he should at least be going for that run. It was the kind of play where we've seen even Peyton Manning run and that man had about as much speed as a toddler.
                    Red Miller had Craig Morton take a sack instead of tossing it up to be picked.
                    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                    • Originally posted by L.M. View Post



                      Wow, " literally nothing"! Every pass play is literally an incompletion, fumble, or pick! I must have hallucinated the 264 completions, 44 rushes, 18 touchdowns (two he rushed for), three game winning drives (two of which were 4th quarter comebacks) that he did in his 13.2 games.

                      Objectivity and hyperbole are mutually exclusive.

                      True that.
                      "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                      • Originally posted by arapaho View Post

                        i seen a view the other day that makes some sense

                        the guy stated that in college with a inferior team in the SEC, Lock had, HAD to be the playmaker, he had to make something happen, if he couldnt find some plays the team couldnt win

                        and now with the backs against the wall, learning a new offense, with a #1 wr that was undrafted, losing the probowl WR sutton and playing with two rookie wrs Lock is stuck in in the mentality that he has to make a play, he cant take the check down, he has to, like in college...make a play

                        the coaches need to get him out of that mindset, they need to target juedy more, and focus on getting fant the ball...with quick short passes
                        Right. Lock's problem is mental. The game is still too fast for him. The only way to slow it down is by playing more, seeing more and processing more; growing pains.
                        "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                        • Originally posted by samparnell View Post

                          Red Miller had Craig Morton take a sack instead of tossing it up to be picked.
                          We made fun of Rivers and Kyle Orton for phantom sacks, but in reality all the good vets do it, because it's just smarter to lose a few yards than just give the ball away. I'm not gonna act like I know if Shurmur is telling Drew to throw it when he's in danger or not telling him anything and just letting him make that mistake or if Shurmur is on his butt after every pick telling him just take a sack.
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                          • Originally posted by samparnell View Post

                            Red Miller had Craig Morton take a sack instead of tossing it up to be picked.
                            When I was a kid I had the coolest poster of Morton on my Bedroom wall !!!!
                            I found it in the back of football digest and I sent like a $10 money order, plus shipping and handing fees and then waited by the mailbox 6 to 8 weeks for it to be delivered!!!!
                            It was so cool, and I was a happy kid!!!!

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                            • Originally posted by Capt. Jack View Post

                              When I was a kid I had the coolest poster of Morton on my Bedroom wall !!!!
                              I found it in the back of football digest and I sent like a $10 money order, plus shipping and handing fees and then waited by the mailbox 6 to 8 weeks for it to be delivered!!!!
                              It was so cool, and I was a happy kid!!!!

                              The other #7.
                              "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                              • Called it. This was always going to play out like this. Drew Lock didn't look very good in his audition last year outside of 3 quarters, the fanatics just didn't want to see that and the expectations snowballed. Lock was not a great prospect, playings the odds he wasn't ever going to be that guy, but he had some interesting skills which were unique to our team that we hadn't seen from the quarterback spot for a while, I got the excitement.

                                I do think he can still get better, and will, obviously, but the fans who expected a young Mahomes, or even a young Cutler, it wasn't fair to expect that. Lock has looked worse than I thought he would, but coming back to the way Elway tried to help him, draft receivers, not foundational offensive line pieces, it was a flawed approach and the cracks are showing now, also called that unfortunately. Oh well, at least you guys enjoyed the highlight videos after draft night and ganging up on the few people who didn't like the moves. "Elway nailed it "

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