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  • Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
    I am not wondering why fans are interested in Lock, and he is definitely NOT the most important player on our roster. Our roster foundation is the defense and they have done an abysmal job thus far, and through Sunday night (Bears scored 31 against Keenum and friends in MNF) the most points any of our opponents had scored this year was against us, and only Chiefs have scored more against any of our opponents that we did, so if Lock is supposed to be the saviour then he has to be an upgrade. In the time since I began following the Broncos in 1988, only one rookie QB improved out team and that was the much maligned Tim Tebow. Some loved Cutler, but the fact was that he converted Broncos from a team that won 72% of games under Jake and never missed the playoffs to 46% under Cutler.

    Whereas ex. Tebow was a wild card, with stellar results in college, in Lock we have a QB that does not bring anything that makes him a likely Messiah of the Broncos offense, and that makes it likely that he is better or even as good as Flacco. Seeing Keenum play the Bears and seeing Flacco do it also indicate that we did indeed upgrade that position.

    The importance for the team is that they all man up and play better. Luckily it could seem like the wild card threshold in AFC will likely be 10-6 or 9-7.
    So who is the most important player on this team, Chubb? Let's say he is an all pro this year. We can still go 3-13 with an all pro LB. You wont go 3-13 with an all pro QB.

    A great season for an LB doesnt have the same impact on the team as a great season for a QB. Our QB prospect is the most important player for this team's future success, thus the most important player on this team.

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    • I believe he will start when he beats out the current starter.
      I think that's the way it works, the best players at the position, Start.
      Unless they are hurt and They are on IR.

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      • Originally posted by BroncoStampede View Post
        So who is the most important player on this team, Chubb? Let's say he is an all pro this year. We can still go 3-13 with an all pro LB. You wont go 3-13 with an all pro QB.

        A great season for an LB doesnt have the same impact on the team as a great season for a QB. Our QB prospect is the most important player for this team's future success, thus the most important player on this team.
        The correlation to victory for the best QB stats are in the 85% correlation bracket and the best defensive stats are in the 70% correlation to victory bracket, so yes the STARTING QB is more important than any other player on the field.

        Lock is worth diddly if he is not better than Joe Flacco or any other QB we can get our hands on. Paxton Lynch was not the most important player on the Broncos in 2016 and 2017, and when we saw Lock and Lynch in the same game it made a few people wonder why we gave up on Paxton for THAT.

        If Joe gets hurt, or the season is lost we might see Lock, but thus far the hype seem unfounded.

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        • Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
          If Joe gets hurt, or the season is lost we might see Lock, but thus far the hype seem unfounded.
          There really isn't any "hype". More so, it is a well known fact that Flacco is a bad QB and we are losing with him. It only makes sense to put Lock in the lineup as soon as possible so he can develop and be evaluated. Flacco is regularly outplayed by rookies and backups, has been for years, so thinking Lock might be able to do so as well is not far fetched.

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          • Originally posted by Papa-pwn View Post
            There really isn't any "hype". More so, it is a well known fact that Flacco is a bad QB and we are losing with him. It only makes sense to put Lock in the lineup as soon as possible so he can develop and be evaluated. Flacco is regularly outplayed by rookies and backups, has been for years, so thinking Lock might be able to do so as well is not far fetched.
            This is an 0-3 team with very little chance of making the playoffs. At this point, I’m pretty much all for seeing any roster change. I’m expecting Lock will get a shot when he’s off IR. Heck, I’m not even opposed to seeing some Brandon Allen if they keep losing.
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            • Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
              The correlation to victory for the best QB stats are in the 85% correlation bracket and the best defensive stats are in the 70% correlation to victory bracket, so yes the STARTING QB is more important than any other player on the field.

              Lock is worth diddly if he is not better than Joe Flacco or any other QB we can get our hands on. Paxton Lynch was not the most important player on the Broncos in 2016 and 2017, and when we saw Lock and Lynch in the same game it made a few people wonder why we gave up on Paxton for THAT.

              If Joe gets hurt, or the season is lost we might see Lock, but thus far the hype seem unfounded.
              No one was wondering why we gave up on Lynch for Lock. It took Lynch 3 seasons to complete something other than a 2 yard slant and even then it was a bunch of jump balls to 6’5” WRs against 5’9” CBs.

              Lynch could never hit a TE in the hands immediately after coming out of his break. Statistically Lynch had a good game but preseason is for showing traits and Lynch showed nothing in that game. Anticipating targets coming open is a definable trait in great QBs and Lock flashed that ability in the preseason. Lock just needs consistency which will come in time.
              Last edited by beastlyskronk; 09-26-2019, 12:24 PM.

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              • Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
                The correlation to victory for the best QB stats are in the 85% correlation bracket and the best defensive stats are in the 70% correlation to victory bracket, so yes the STARTING QB is more important than any other player on the field.

                Lock is worth diddly if he is not better than Joe Flacco or any other QB we can get our hands on. Paxton Lynch was not the most important player on the Broncos in 2016 and 2017, and when we saw Lock and Lynch in the same game it made a few people wonder why we gave up on Paxton for THAT.

                If Joe gets hurt, or the season is lost we might see Lock, but thus far the hype seem unfounded.
                Your post touches a bunch of different topics, but the main point you seem to be making is that you dont like Lock.

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                • Lock Should Remain On IR

                  I want us to bring back Tim Patrick and Theo Riddick.
                  Patrick is a standout ST player and I we need a third receiver.
                  Riddick is listed as a RB but he will be the slot receiver we are missing.
                  Bringing Lock back doesn’t make sense. The kid doesn’t know our offense and that is where he needs to work. Next year he should get all the preseason snaps and year 3 he should get an opportunity to compete for the starting job.
                  Bottom line he couldn’t beat out Flacco in the preseason and Flacco will be back based on the contract restructure, I’m not saying I agree with that but it is what it is.
                  Next year Lock should come into camp and take the job like Russell Wilson did in Seattle as a rookie.

                  I keep hearing that he should come back so he can play this year and that way if he can’t play we can draft a QBs in 2020........what!! ???
                  Sorry i don’t want Lock’s only shot at being our future based on a season where he was injured half of it and then thrown into a new offense. Lock is our future qb, 2020 is where we fill holes on our OL, DL, ILB, CB, WR. If we draft where a big time Qb is available their will be teams willing to send us additional value picks and Scangerello and Fangio can fill the holes they need.

                  Never want the culture of this team to sit better players to see what guys can do, that’s how a team loses a locker room especially at QB.
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                  • Terrible idea and a surefire way to delay or potentially ruin his development. Staying on IR inhibits his ability to practice, so good luck with expecting him to get better with this offense like that. Really though, we have no idea what his knowledge of the offense is like at this point.

                    He couldn't "beat out" Flacco this preseason because that was never even a possibility that the staff entertained. They purposely held Lock in the 3rd QB spot while he outplayed Hogan since day one. That has no bearing on now, or November when Lock should return.

                    Flacco is a below average QB performing like a below average QB, leading an offense scoring a below average amount of points en route to a below average win-loss record. QBs like that usually get benched in the second half of the season when there is promising youth behind.

                    Flacco was sat last year and it hardly lost the Raven's locker room. Regardless, the team is in a state of turnover and if player's feelings are hurt that the 23rd ranked passer gets benched when they're 2-7 then they should probably leave with Flacco. No player will hitch their wagon to a below average QB like that, though.

                    On that note, there is no guarantee that Flacco returns after this year, restructure be damned. If there is one thing Elway has proven, it is that dead money plays no factor in his decision to move on from players. Chances are good that Lock takes over for Flacco at some point this year, and if Lock plays well enough to earn the job going forward, Flacco will not be retained as a $24.5m backup. We will eat the $13m dead cap and sign a Fitzpatrick type for ~3m.

                    Your plan to sit Lock until his 3rd year potentially locks this franchise into the cycle of bad that they have been swirling about since 2015 for 3 more years. We go on not having clarity at the game's most important position, and continue fielding a bottom 10 QB in Flacco while allocating 50m in total cap space for Flacco those two years. We lose out two years of cheap rookie contract Lock and lose out on both valuable developmental reps for him as well as evaluation opportunities for the staff.

                    When it comes to activating players of off IR, Lock is the only player that actually makes 100% sense. The 2nd activation is the one that is up in the air. I say Patrick. Espeically if Sanders is traded.

                    You want to talk about ruining the team's culture, the culture has already been ruined when people are suggesting we maintain below average QB play even longer.

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                    • Originally posted by Papa-pwn View Post
                      Terrible idea and a surefire way to delay or potentially ruin his development. Staying on IR inhibits his ability to practice, so good luck with expecting him to get better with this offense like that. Really though, we have no idea what his knowledge of the offense is like at this point.

                      He couldn't "beat out" Flacco this preseason because that was never even a possibility that the staff entertained. They purposely held Lock in the 3rd QB spot while he outplayed Hogan since day one. That has no bearing on now, or November when Lock should return.

                      Flacco is a below average QB performing like a below average QB, leading an offense scoring a below average amount of points en route to a below average win-loss record. QBs like that usually get benched in the second half of the season when there is promising youth behind.

                      Flacco was sat last year and it hardly lost the Raven's locker room. Regardless, the team is in a state of turnover and if player's feelings are hurt that the 23rd ranked passer gets benched when they're 2-7 then they should probably leave with Flacco. No player will hitch their wagon to a below average QB like that, though.

                      On that note, there is no guarantee that Flacco returns after this year, restructure be damned. If there is one thing Elway has proven, it is that dead money plays no factor in his decision to move on from players. Chances are good that Lock takes over for Flacco at some point this year, and if Lock plays well enough to earn the job going forward, Flacco will not be retained as a $24.5m backup. We will eat the $13m dead cap and sign a Fitzpatrick type for ~3m.

                      Your plan to sit Lock until his 3rd year potentially locks this franchise into the cycle of bad that they have been swirling about since 2015 for 3 more years. We go on not having clarity at the game's most important position, and continue fielding a bottom 10 QB in Flacco while allocating 50m in total cap space for Flacco those two years. We lose out two years of cheap rookie contract Lock and lose out on both valuable developmental reps for him as well as evaluation opportunities for the staff.

                      When it comes to activating players of off IR, Lock is the only player that actually makes 100% sense. The 2nd activation is the one that is up in the air. I say Patrick. Espeically if Sanders is traded.

                      You want to talk about ruining the team's culture, the culture has already been ruined when people are suggesting we maintain below average QB play even longer.
                      My plan is to have the best players on our active roster. Flacco is better than Lock. Allen is better than Lock right now. Their is no rush to bring him back. I would love to see him come in next year and take the job from Flacco.

                      We can afford to let Lock sit. Let me illustrate like this:
                      If i bought a home i was gonna live in the next 20 years, i wouldn’t move in immediately. I would remodel the inside and get the landscape exactly how I wanted so once i moved in I could enjoy my home.

                      Lock i believe can be our qb for the next 10 to 15 years. He needs to better learn this offense, and the broncos need to surround him with better talent on the line and receivers. They also need to work out the kinks in the offense, and I’m fine with Flacco having to carry that load.
                      Meanwhile Lock can work on:
                      Learning offense
                      Observe
                      On his own work on:
                      his footwork
                      Study film
                      Throwing mechanics
                      Get stronger

                      This season is what it is, if Flacco was injured I would be interested in seeing Lock but right now we need to focus on filling other holes in the offense.

                      When Mahomes and Aaron Rodgers stepped in as starters their teams offensive schemes were set and successful they took them to another level.

                      Lock can do that for our offense but right now It’s still a work in progress.
                      Last edited by 58Miller; 10-11-2019, 09:22 AM.
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                      • Boy glad he is not the GM!

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                        • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
                          My plan is to have the best players on our active roster. Flacco is better than Lock. Allen is better than Lock right now. Their is no rush to bring him back. I would love to see him come in next year and take the job from Flacco.

                          We can afford to let Lock sit. Let me illustrate like this:
                          If i bought a home i was gonna live in the next 20 years, i wouldn’t move in immediately. I would remodel the inside and get the landscape exactly how I wanted so once i moved in I could enjoy my home.

                          Lock i believe can be our qb for the next 10 to 15 years. He needs to better learn this offense, and the broncos need to surround him with better talent on the line and receivers. They also need to work out the kinks in the offense, and I’m fine with Flacco having to carry that load.
                          Meanwhile Lock can work on:
                          Learning offense
                          Observe
                          On his own work on:
                          his footwork
                          Study film
                          Throwing mechanics
                          Get stronger

                          This season is what it is, if Flacco was injured I would be interested in seeing Lock but right now we need to focus on filling other holes in the offense.
                          You have no idea how good Lock is or how good he could become this season if he is allowed to play. The idea that he should be kept on the IR while fully healthy is about as bad as an idea can get. The kid needs practice reps and won’t get any on the IR.

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                          • Hate to agree with Papa on some points but Lock needs practice reps. He is the most important person to bring off of IR in my opinion. My hope is that he doesn't see the field this year though unless it's the last 4 games and this team i far out of contention. Rushing him into the lineup once he returns from IR would be an absolute disaster and could destroy his confidence.
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                            • Originally posted by BeelzeBob View Post
                              You have no idea how good Lock is or how good he could become this season if he is allowed to play. The idea that he should be kept on the IR while fully healthy is about as bad as an idea can get. The kid needs practice reps and won’t get any on the IR.
                              You ALSO have no idea how good Lock is as well. I will defer to the people in the building who watch him play to make that distinction. With that said, he needs to come off of IR and get some practice reps.
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                              • Riddick should have never been signed imo . He should remain on IR . Bring Lock and Patrick back.

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