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  • Originally posted by orange crush75 View Post
    How many games does it take to see you have a franchise Qb or not ? Peoples expectations are so blooming high for such a short time . You have those stellar Qbs that just shine from the beginning and end up being elite Qbs . Those are few and far in between. Remember Elways first year ?

    Lock has shown that he has the ability . Lock has shown that he needs work as well. He was a 2nd rounder. Remember his rookie season? He was put on IR and basically had to keep himself up to date . He put the effort in and people were impressed with him.

    Now enter this season . limited off season workouts , basically none really . No pre season games to work the kinks out . A new OC , 2 new wrs ect..... I read that we were #2 in the league for dropped passes as well .

    I'm not saying he's our franchise Qb , I'm not saying he isn't either . Letting this next year play out to see how it winds up . I'm sure everything will be clearer on our Qb situation after this next season.
    He has almost a year and a half of field experience. However, he's been a part of the organization for 2 years now, so 2021 would be his 3rd year. I'd say by the end of year 2 of field experience, you should be able to figure out whether a QB will really be someone worth committing to.

    However, if they don't show that at the end of year 1 of on-field experience, I'd be shopping for my franchise QB competition, particularly in the draft, as my backup plan. The QB is by far the most important position on the field, especially in this era. This past year, there were more passing TDs than punts. I believe that's a first, and it shows us how important having your top-notch QB is.

    Since Lock's year 1 has come and gone, and since he still has a long way to go to be a top NFL QB, I'd be looking hard in this upcoming draft to get the best I can as my backup plan. Let Lock and the new guy compete. Don't waste time sitting on your hands developing a guy or waiting until he gets it, like this franchise has done with Siemian and Lynch. If I'm responsible for the success of the team, the QB is my priority. It isn't the success of any one player. That's their responsibility.
    But, I think the staff will go after a vet in a "win now" mode, due to the expected ownership change as well as 2021 the last contract year for Elway and maybe the last for Fangio and his staff if they don't win. Short-term thinking...when fails, costs the Broncos several years of losing.
    Last edited by DiveInstructor; 01-06-2021, 08:09 AM.

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    • I’ve always believed that you need at least 30 games to find out if you have a true franchise QB. Obviously some QBs you can tell right away but as long as they show improvement in certain areas then you try to stick with them.

      Lock has improved in a lot of ways. His footwork against the Raiders was probably the best he’s had all season. There wasn’t any half step to get into his drop all while keeping the unorthodox style of keeping his right leg back to maintain a better pocket. His recognition of defenses improved pre and post snap and again the Raiders game is a good example of that as they showed a lot of cover 1/3 looks and would back out into an inverted cover 2 of sorts. He became more weary of hanging defenders after that dropped INT on the post to Patrick against the Pats. He definitely started to showcase a better understanding of his progressions and how long he needed to be on them. Again against the Raiders on Jeudy’s TD, he held the safety by watching the streak from the slot and then moved to Jeudy and waited for him to clear the underneath defenders. Or on the TD to Fumagalli, he runs the play action glances at the motion man to sway the defense, comes back to Vannett who was covered in the flat and then goes to Fumagalli in the back of the end zone. Pocket presence was much better overall towards the end of the season than the beginning. He still drifted from time to time but overall he stuck in there much better from the Miami game on.

      There were improvements, there was also regression, primarily in the decision making aspect. Too often he tried to force throws because he knows he has a big arm. But towards the end of the season it seemed he made a concerted effort to not make those throws almost to a fault although he still let it happen on the INT against the Chargers. He definitely didn’t have a steady upwards progression, he was all over the place this season, but I think he showed enough to give him another shot next season. There won’t be a better option in the draft or through FA unless you think you can reverse course on Stafford or Darnold.

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      • They rank Drew Lock as the 31st ranked QB in the NFL. I know he made his share of mistakes, bad throws, etc. But how about those throws right in the hands of players that flat out dropped the ball? (Sometimes for TD's)

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        • Originally posted by Capt. Jack View Post
          They rank Drew Lock as the 31st ranked QB in the NFL. I know he made his share of mistakes, bad throws, etc. But how about those throws right in the hands of players that flat out dropped the ball? (Sometimes for TD's)
          His on target percentage was in the 60s.....the only "starting" QB with it that low. Every other QB was in the 70s or 80s. He led the league in INTs despite playing 13 games, and his completion percentage was a league low 57%. If you give Lock half of the drops back, he is still at 59% edging out only Carson Wentz on the season.

          This ranking looks to be pretty spot on.

          ​​​​​

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          • Originally posted by atwaterandstir View Post

            His on target percentage was in the 60s.....the only "starting" QB with it that low. Every other QB was in the 70s or 80s. He led the league in INTs despite playing 13 games, and his completion percentage was a league low 57%. If you give Lock half of the drops back, he is still at 59% edging out only Carson Wentz on the season.

            This ranking looks to be pretty spot on.

            ​​​​​
            Sounds good, Thanks.

            There is no doubt he has a ways to go, but I didn't expect him to be "Joe Montana" in his first full season.


            It takes a lot of patience if your team decides to try and develop a Young QB, or in our case a few young QB's.

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            • Originally posted by Capt. Jack View Post

              Sounds good, Thanks.

              There is no doubt he has a ways to go, but I didn't expect him to be "Joe Montana" in his first full season.


              It takes a lot of patience if your team decides to try and develop a Young QB, or in our case a few young QB's.

              They aren't my stats they are Drew Locks. If you want to roll your eyes at something take another look.

              Maybe his 3rd "rookie" year will clear things up, but as of now he is clearly one of -if not the- worst starting QBs in the league. I didn't want to accept it either, but the truth hurts sometimes. Patience is just the scapegoat for production, it always has been. He's the worst starting qb in the league or close to- of course patience would help.....the question is how much?

              Joe Montana? Not sure where that quote came from, but I would settle for Hannah Montana if it she came with better than league worst QB play.



              ​​​​

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              • Originally posted by atwaterandstir View Post

                They aren't my stats they are Drew Locks. If you want to roll your eyes at something take another look.

                Maybe his 3rd "rookie" year will clear things up, but as of now he is clearly one of -if not the- worst starting QBs in the league. I didn't want to accept it either, but the truth hurts sometimes. Patience is just the scapegoat for production, it always has been. He's the worst starting qb in the league or close to- of course patience would help.....the question is how much?

                Joe Montana? Not sure where that quote came from, but I would settle for Hannah Montana if it she came with better than league worst QB play.



                ​​​​
                I agreed with you, and I even liked your post, I wasn't rolling my eyes at you.
                I guess I used the wrong Emoji , I was using that just because I'm bummed out that after five years, we are still looking for a QB.
                Last edited by Capt. Jack; 01-07-2021, 07:37 AM.

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                • Originally posted by Capt. Jack View Post

                  I agreed with you, and I even liked your post, I wasn't rolling my eyes at you.
                  I guess I used the wrong Emoji , I was using that just because I'm bummed out that after five years, we are still looking for a QB.
                  I'm right there with you,
                  Sorry Captain.....my bad.
                  I will mop the deck

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                  • I am definitely not giving up on Lock, but I do think the best thing for him is the practice field. We have all seen the throws that give us hope, but it's his accuracy and bad habits that hurt him the most. I don't think game experience is the thing that settles that. He needs to be on the practice field taking reps, working on perfect footwork and accuracy. I don't think the speed of the NFL is where he struggles like many young QBs who need the live fire.

                    Starting or not, I hope someone is brought in to really work with our QB.

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                    • Statistically, Lock turning into a great QB is unlikely. The Manning/Elway/Allen cases where a QB with a bad first year turns into a great QB are in the significant minority. The more likely situation is he turns into an average or below average QB is realistic. Note that there are plenty in that study who showed very good improvement but never turned out to be great or even good. Kyle Orton and Joey Harrington are examples of those.

                      https://www.milehighreport.com/2021/...arterbacks-and

                      I've always been of the mindset that the Broncos should be spending big in the draft to get their great QB first. The mentality "best man available", and waiting until a QB drops to you (usually the projects like Lock) has not worked. I think this draft the smart thing for the Broncos to do, using a long-term strategy, is to spend and try to get to that #3 position, so they can grab one of the top 3 QBs. I still think the Broncos will go vet FA, possibly over spending on some "meh" QB to win in 2021. But, that's just a patch job. If they're gonna spend on a vet, then spend big and go after DeShaun Watson. He's the only vet QB worthy of being a franchise future QB.
                      Last edited by DiveInstructor; 01-07-2021, 09:33 AM.

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                      • Originally posted by atwaterandstir View Post

                        I'm right there with you,
                        Sorry Captain.....my bad.
                        I will mop the deck
                        No problem, it's all good!!!!

                        (Swabby) !

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                        • Originally posted by DiveInstructor View Post
                          Statistically, Lock turning into a great QB is unlikely. The Manning/Elway/Allen cases where a QB with a bad first year turns into a great QB are in the significant minority. The more likely situation is he turns into an average or below average QB is realistic. Note that there are plenty in that study who showed very good improvement but never turned out to be great or even good. Kyle Orton and Joey Harrington are examples of those.

                          https://www.milehighreport.com/2021/...arterbacks-and

                          I've always been of the mindset that the Broncos should be spending big in the draft to get their great QB first. The mentality "best man available", and waiting until a QB drops to you (usually the projects like Lock) has not worked. I think this draft the smart thing for the Broncos to do, using a long-term strategy, is to spend and try to get to that #3 position, so they can grab one of the top 3 QBs. I still think the Broncos will go vet FA, possibly over spending on some "meh" QB to win in 2021. But, that's just a patch job. If they're gonna spend on a vet, then spend big and go after DeShaun Watson. He's the only vet QB worthy of being a franchise future QB.
                          So you telling me there is a "chance"!?# Sorry Couldn't resist.

                          One thing I find interesting about that report is that if it weren't for the Fumbles, Gardner Minshew is way up there, and no one is beating down doors to get him. Alex Smith, Drew Brees, Josh Allen, Andrew Luck, Matthew Stafford, and Eli Manning all have less completion percentage and most have a lower or the same average yds per completion than Lock. The big names have a few more TD passes and about the same number of interceptions as Lock. I would give Lock at least 4 more TD's as I watched them dropped, though the same could surely be said of the interceptions and TD's of all of the guys I mentioned.

                          I am not a Lock supporter but I am a supporter of getting a QB specialist to work with Lock or another QB if that is Denver's new direction.

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                          • Originally posted by WYBRONCO View Post

                            So you telling me there is a "chance"!?# Sorry Couldn't resist.

                            One thing I find interesting about that report is that if it weren't for the Fumbles, Gardner Minshew is way up there, and no one is beating down doors to get him. Alex Smith, Drew Brees, Josh Allen, Andrew Luck, Matthew Stafford, and Eli Manning all have less completion percentage and most have a lower or the same average yds per completion than Lock. The big names have a few more TD passes and about the same number of interceptions as Lock. I would give Lock at least 4 more TD's as I watched them dropped, though the same could surely be said of the interceptions and TD's of all of the guys I mentioned.

                            I am not a Lock supporter but I am a supporter of getting a QB specialist to work with Lock or another QB if that is Denver's new direction.
                            Whether it's INT's or fumbles, it's a ball security issue, and that isn't good. I've seen a couple Minshew performances, and he seems more the reactionary QB. First year comparisons really don't mean much. It's a growth thing, and it's an eye test. Lock's "flash" is minimal, at this point. Growth wise, he's marginal. Not saying he wouldn't turn into a great QB....there's always a chance, right?

                            I'm still of the mindset that the Broncos shouldn't simply wait and see. They need a good alternative plan and act on it always, until they find that guy.

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                            • Originally posted by WYBRONCO View Post

                              So you telling me there is a "chance"!?# Sorry Couldn't resist.

                              One thing I find interesting about that report is that if it weren't for the Fumbles, Gardner Minshew is way up there, and no one is beating down doors to get him. Alex Smith, Drew Brees, Josh Allen, Andrew Luck, Matthew Stafford, and Eli Manning all have less completion percentage and most have a lower or the same average yds per completion than Lock. The big names have a few more TD passes and about the same number of interceptions as Lock. I would give Lock at least 4 more TD's as I watched them dropped, though the same could surely be said of the interceptions and TD's of all of the guys I mentioned.

                              I am not a Lock supporter but I am a supporter of getting a QB specialist to work with Lock or another QB if that is Denver's new direction.
                              That's because Minshew is underappreciated. I'm not going to get into specifics, because then I'll start bringing Lock into the conversation, and that'll get people fired up. Drew Lock has a better arm. I'll just leave it at that.

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                              • There's a problem when TAYLOR HEINICKE comes off the couch and looks more poised then Drew Lock did all season.

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