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  • Originally posted by JW7 View Post

    *We have sucked the last 4 years.

    One of the highest winning percentages in the NFL since the merger.
    The last 5 years we have sucked and before Peyton got here we sucked before thats too.

    Idc about the 2015 sb...5 straight losing seasons and this year the bottom of the afc....call it what you want.
    Until we get a TRUE not name "Lock" qb we will miss the playoffs and be average at best! I'm E2DS and I approve this message! "AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW, NOW YA KNOW."

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    • Originally posted by Ear2dastreets View Post

      The last 5 years we have sucked and before Peyton got here we sucked before thats too.

      Idc about the 2015 sb...5 straight losing seasons and this year the bottom of the afc....call it what you want.
      So you would rather have a Star QB than winning Superbowls??
      Last edited by Gbt31; 01-26-2021, 03:11 AM.
      New England Patriots GM

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      • Originally posted by Gbt31 View Post

        So you would rather have a Star QB than winning Superbowls??
        Thats not what I said...we had a starting qb when we won the SB....im saying idc about a sb we won 6 years ago....when we have not made it to the playoffs nor have a winning record since.
        Until we get a TRUE not name "Lock" qb we will miss the playoffs and be average at best! I'm E2DS and I approve this message! "AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW, NOW YA KNOW."

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        • Originally posted by Gbt31 View Post

          So you would rather have a Star QB than winning Superbowls??
          Go back through the past 20 years and tell me how many of those SB's are won by teams with HOF/star QBs, and how many are won by mediocre QBs. 15 of the 20 SBs were won by top level QBs. I even discounted guys like Flaccid and Eli Manning, since those guys were meh on average. By the numbers, great QBs will get you 75% of the SB wins over the past 20 years.

          If I apply your "reasoning", I guess you want to be at a disadvantage every year for the post season, right?

          ....simply amazing fans don't understand this....

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          • Originally posted by DiveInstructor View Post

            Go back through the past 20 years and tell me how many of those SB's are won by teams with HOF/star QBs, and how many are won by mediocre QBs. 15 of the 20 SBs were won by top level QBs. I even discounted guys like Flaccid and Eli Manning, since those guys were meh on average. By the numbers, great QBs will get you 75% of the SB wins over the past 20 years.

            If I apply your "reasoning", I guess you want to be at a disadvantage every year for the post season, right?

            ....simply amazing fans don't understand this....
            Yep good points. Flacco was really good in his SB winning year. Dilfer and Wentz are really the only really average SB winning Qb's that come to mind in the last 20 years. Hostetler, Brad Johnson, Rypien, all pretty average to below average. You could argue McMahon was average too. That is 54 SB's I looked at and I came up with maybe 7 names that were average. This years SB obviously doesn't count because however wins is phenomenal. Good luck trying to win a Super Bowl with an average QB.

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            • Originally posted by DiveInstructor View Post

              Go back through the past 20 years and tell me how many of those SB's are won by teams with HOF/star QBs, and how many are won by mediocre QBs. 15 of the 20 SBs were won by top level QBs. I even discounted guys like Flaccid and Eli Manning, since those guys were meh on average. By the numbers, great QBs will get you 75% of the SB wins over the past 20 years.

              If I apply your "reasoning", I guess you want to be at a disadvantage every year for the post season, right?

              ....simply amazing fans don't understand this....
              How many of those QBs had their existing clubs willing to trade them at age 25?
              Now for all the ones that love the idea of totally decimating our team and cap for a QB that should be in his prime and has never led a top 10 offense, and has not been able to help his current team have more success than they had before he came there?

              These are the ones that played in the SB and it is littered with a mixture of 1st round QBs with #1s winning 4, mid to late first rounds winning some, 2nd rounds, 3rd rounds, 6th rounds and undrafted FAs.

              Great QBs do not get traded by their clubs while they are still top level - if they are traded it is because the organisation don't beleive that they are the ones

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              • Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post

                How many of those QBs had their existing clubs willing to trade them at age 25?
                Now for all the ones that love the idea of totally decimating our team and cap for a QB that should be in his prime and has never led a top 10 offense, and has not been able to help his current team have more success than they had before he came there?

                These are the ones that played in the SB and it is littered with a mixture of 1st round QBs with #1s winning 4, mid to late first rounds winning some, 2nd rounds, 3rd rounds, 6th rounds and undrafted FAs.

                Great QBs do not get traded by their clubs while they are still top level - if they are traded it is because the organisation don't beleive that they are the ones
                ....
                Not sure why this "argument" is directed at me. I'm not a big proponent of paying big in a trade for a vet. I'm not a big believer in Watson, and I'm definitely not one who thinks Stafford (or anyone like him) is the future the Broncos should pursue. Much the same how I never believed in Cousins (when many wanted him here).

                All along I've been playing my broken record: keep using your #1 draft, every draft, to search for your franchise QB. In a way, it's largely a crap-shoot. But, the 1st round guys are usually the best bets. That's my "approach" at solving the lousy QB situation on the Broncos, and the ongoing mediocre/losing season problem. Also, do that before you go chasing that BPA available in the first at any other position. Figure out the QB first. Drafting another Chubb isn't going to turn the Broncos into a dynasty.

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                • Originally posted by DiveInstructor View Post

                  Go back through the past 20 years and tell me how many of those SB's are won by teams with HOF/star QBs, and how many are won by mediocre QBs. 15 of the 20 SBs were won by top level QBs. I even discounted guys like Flaccid and Eli Manning, since those guys were meh on average. By the numbers, great QBs will get you 75% of the SB wins over the past 20 years.

                  If I apply your "reasoning", I guess you want to be at a disadvantage every year for the post season, right?

                  ....simply amazing fans don't understand this....
                  Facts don't lie. Small nail....meet large hammer. Excellent research Dive!
                  Utah Bronco Freak

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                  • Originally posted by DiveInstructor View Post

                    Not sure why this "argument" is directed at me. I'm not a big proponent of paying big in a trade for a vet. I'm not a big believer in Watson, and I'm definitely not one who thinks Stafford (or anyone like him) is the future the Broncos should pursue. Much the same how I never believed in Cousins (when many wanted him here).

                    All along I've been playing my broken record: keep using your #1 draft, every draft, to search for your franchise QB. In a way, it's largely a crap-shoot. But, the 1st round guys are usually the best bets. That's my "approach" at solving the lousy QB situation on the Broncos, and the ongoing mediocre/losing season problem. Also, do that before you go chasing that BPA available in the first at any other position. Figure out the QB first. Drafting another Chubb isn't going to turn the Broncos into a dynasty.
                    While I think historically trading your first and draft 2-3 QBs in 2nd, 3rd and 4th round going into camp might be a better bet than rolling with a first. It is actually very few QBs drafted #12-32 in the draft has had much success. In the last 20 years or so only Aaron Rodgers, Joe Flacco, Rex Grossman, Lamar Jackson, Deshawn Watson and Tim Tebow drafted there have won in the playoffs, whereas several 2nd-4th round qbs have.

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                    • Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post

                      While I think historically trading your first and draft 2-3 QBs in 2nd, 3rd and 4th round going into camp might be a better bet than rolling with a first. It is actually very few QBs drafted #12-32 in the draft has had much success. In the last 20 years or so only Aaron Rodgers, Joe Flacco, Rex Grossman, Lamar Jackson, Deshawn Watson and Tim Tebow drafted there have won in the playoffs, whereas several 2nd-4th round qbs have.
                      I partially agree. Try to play the odds, and that's if you're drafting QBs early in that first round. I'd be looking at (minimum) trying to draft that QB in the top 10 of the first round. The Broncos have a #9 draft, which is barely inside that window. The Broncos might be in a decent position this year moving up some spots this upcoming draft. Maybe the #9, a 2nd round pick next year, and Von Miller might get you in the top 5. I'd be wary of counting on a late 1st round or beyond QB doing much more than back up. So, I'd sooner use those picks (2nd, 3rd, beyond) on other positions they need to fill. But, again, concentrate on trying to move up this next draft.

                      Not sure going the draft several 2nd and later round picks for QB is really smart. Those 2nd to 4th round guys are even more of a guess. I'm looking for guys that have the potential to be top 5 NFL QB's, and chances seem better early in the 1st.

                      Also, I'm not big on trading a bunch of 1st round picks for unproven guys like Stafford or Watson. It isn't like you're trying to pull in a proven SB QB like a Manning. Don't trade the future for guys who haven't proven their worth in the post season.
                      Last edited by DiveInstructor; 01-26-2021, 04:03 PM.

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                      • Originally posted by DiveInstructor View Post

                        I partially agree. Try to play the odds, and that's if you're drafting QBs early in that first round. I'd be looking at (minimum) trying to draft that QB in the top 10 of the first round. The Broncos have a #9 draft, which is barely inside that window. The Broncos might be in a decent position this year moving up some spots this upcoming draft. Maybe the #9, a 2nd round pick next year, and Von Miller might get you in the top 5. I'd be wary of counting on a late 1st round or beyond QB doing much more than back up. So, I'd sooner use those picks (2nd, 3rd, beyond) on other positions they need to fill. But, again, concentrate on trying to move up this next draft.

                        Not sure going the draft several 2nd and later round picks for QB is really smart. Those 2nd to 4th round guys are even more of a guess. I'm looking for guys that have the potential to be top 5 NFL QB's, and chances seem better early in the 1st.

                        Also, I'm not big on trading a bunch of 1st round picks for unproven guys like Stafford or Watson. It isn't like you're trying to pull in a proven SB QB like a Manning. Don't trade the future for guys who haven't proven their worth in the post season.
                        You are putting a lot of faith into the same scouting staff that has not been able to find a starting quarterback in 5 years through free agency or the draft. I don’t know if Paton will make a difference or not (especially this offseason). I hope he does.
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                        • Originally posted by qbronco View Post

                          You are putting a lot of faith into the same scouting staff that has not been able to find a starting quarterback in 5 years through free agency or the draft. I don’t know if Paton will make a difference or not (especially this offseason). I hope he does.
                          Actually, it's because of my lack of faith in their ability to recognize good QBs that I'm pushing to have them draft early in the first, and often.

                          I don't believe them when they say they can turn that late 1st round or later "project" guy into a franchise QB. I don't believe them when they say they can take an old vet and "win now" (you have no idea how much I hate that phrase). I don't believe them when they say, "well, he isn't working out this year, but wait until next year." I don't buy any of that, all because of their established history. So, I just want them to keep pulling guys who are rated as top 3-4 QBs in the draft, and hope one drops in their lap....simply by doing it again, and again.

                          I don't believe they have a plan, so I do believe they have no clue what to look for. And, that's a big reason why I don't believe they can take a mediocre QB, draft a bunch of talent, sign solid FA guys, and turn the team into an SB contender.

                          I don't know about Paton, either. I do know I don't trust Shurmur or Fangio, and I'm not sure how much influence Elway is going to have.
                          Last edited by DiveInstructor; 01-26-2021, 04:45 PM.

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                          • Drew's Days Are Now Numbered.

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                            • Originally posted by DENVERSB50CHAMP View Post
                              Drew's Days Are Now Numbered.
                              Correct. 365 to be exact.

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                              • Originally posted by DENVERSB50CHAMP View Post
                                Drew's Days Are Now Numbered.
                                The writing definitely seems to be on the wall, where there’s smoke there’s fire.

                                As poorly as Lock played overall, I can’t imagine a new GM fully committing to him.

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