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  • Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post
    You must be in the minority that wants to “rush Lock into the game just to see if he’s the future or not so we can draft Tua”.

    I did not say that Allen was the “future”, I don’t know where you guys get your nerve to make such assumptions, I’d take the time to teach you but I really don’t care what you understand or don’t...

    Allen is better for the team right now because and as I originally stated, he’s an experienced vet that allows us to carry two capable QBs on the active roster rather than just one.

    Lock isn’t experienced enough and if you had to toss him to the wolves right now, you only be turning him into David Carr!

    Like I already said, that is not fair to lock!
    I’m with you, Allen has been here the first six weeks, Lock has been injured. A back up qb needs to know the teams offense and be ready to come in immediately and run the team. Lock cannot do that anywhere close to as good as Allen right now. I think we all look forward to when he can not only do it better than Allen but also Flacco.
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    • Originally posted by JW7 View Post
      The four best quarterbacks in the NFL; Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Mahomes (minus 1 game his rookie year) all sat at least a season before taking over as a starter. The notion that young QBs have to start right away to be successful is not rooted in fact.

      We can speculate all day what is better for a QB, to be thrown in the fire or to sit and learn. If the staff feels Lock is ready and earns the job, I'm sure he will play but there is nothing wrong with him sitting and learning behind Flacco until he is ready.
      It is a crapshoot. But this next wave of star QB's (Wentz, Ryan, Wilson, Prescott, Newton, and even a retired Luck) all started as a rookie. So, that philosophy has also proven to work.

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      • Originally posted by Bronco51 View Post
        It is a crapshoot. But this next wave of star QB's (Wentz, Ryan, Wilson, Prescott, Newton, and even a retired Luck) all started as a rookie. So, that philosophy has also proven to work.
        Wentz, Newton, Luck, and Ryan 1st rd picks and best QBs on the teams.
        Prescott and Wilson won jobs

        Lock is not like any of these QBs coming in and has been injured.
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        • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
          Wentz, Newton, Luck, and Ryan 1st rd picks and best QBs on the teams.
          Prescott and Wilson won jobs

          Lock is not like any of these QBs coming in and has been injured.
          Where did you get the idea they won their jobs? Prescott did as I recall, the rest were handed the keys because they were high draft picks, as is the norm.

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          • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
            Wentz, Newton, Luck, and Ryan 1st rd picks and best QBs on the teams.
            Prescott and Wilson won jobs

            Lock is not like any of these QBs coming in and has been injured.
            All drafted to be the future. Prescott took over for an injured/retired Romo, Wilson was given the opportunity to compete with journeyman QB's and not expected to sit.

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            • Originally posted by Bronco51 View Post
              All drafted to be the future. Prescott took over for an injured/retired Romo, Wilson was given the opportunity to compete with journeyman QB's and not expected to sit.
              Prescott got the starting job because Romi broke his back.
              Wilson beat out Flynn, cause he was better

              Neither is like our situation:
              Lock couldn’t beat out Flacco,
              and Flacco isnt injured.
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              • Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post
                You must be in the minority that wants to “rush Lock into the game just to see if he’s the future or not so we can draft Tua”.

                I did not say that Allen was the “future”, I don’t know where you guys get your nerve to make such assumptions, I’d take the time to teach you but I really don’t care what you understand or don’t...

                Allen is better for the team right now because and as I originally stated, he’s an experienced vet that allows us to carry two capable QBs on the active roster rather than just one.

                Lock isn’t experienced enough and if you had to toss him to the wolves right now, you only be turning him into David Carr!

                Like I already said, that is not fair to lock!
                Don’t care for Tua or any other QB, I’d like for Lock to start at some point this season but that’s so he can start gaining live experience but only once we are eliminated from the playoffs. I’d much rather use our draft picks to fortify the trenches on offense and defense and to address the ILB position or CB depending on how the draft board plays out.

                Never said that you said Allen was the future, all I’m saying is he won’t be on the team this time next season so there’s no point in having him here other than to have a backup until Lock is ready. Allen isn’t coming in and winning any games this season even if he does play. He’s been a career inactive/Practice squad player so he has no live game experience either and he’s thrown 7 TDs to 11 INTs in 16 preseason games so he hasn’t performed well there. I’d be willing to bet that if Flacco gets seriously hurt before Lock comes back, we’d be trading for Mullens or Beathard before Allen starts.

                It isn’t fair to Lock? How is it fair to the rest of the team to start him next season and essentially hope for the best while probably wasting a season on his development? Or worse, go another season with Flacco? At least if he plays a handful of games this season, he can get an idea of the speed of the NFL and have a much better idea of what he needs to work on and how he needs to work on those things. Lock can handle a rough start to his career, he was thrown to the wolves in the SEC as a true freshman when Mauk got suspended and the campus was in the midst of a racial protest in which players were threatening to boycott games until the president resigned. I think he can handle getting roughed up a bit for a handful of games.

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                • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
                  Don’t care for Tua or any other QB, I’d like for Lock to start at some point this season but that’s so he can start gaining live experience but only once we are eliminated from the playoffs. I’d much rather use our draft picks to fortify the trenches on offense and defense and to address the ILB position or CB depending on how the draft board plays out.

                  Never said that you said Allen was the future, all I’m saying is he won’t be on the team this time next season so there’s no point in having him here other than to have a backup until Lock is ready. Allen isn’t coming in and winning any games this season even if he does play. He’s been a career inactive/Practice squad player so he has no live game experience either and he’s thrown 7 TDs to 11 INTs in 16 preseason games so he hasn’t performed well there. I’d be willing to bet that if Flacco gets seriously hurt before Lock comes back, we’d be trading for Mullens or Beathard before Allen starts.

                  It isn’t fair to Lock? How is it fair to the rest of the team to start him next season and essentially hope for the best while probably wasting a season on his development? Or worse, go another season with Flacco? At least if he plays a handful of games this season, he can get an idea of the speed of the NFL and have a much better idea of what he needs to work on and how he needs to work on those things. Lock can handle a rough start to his career, he was thrown to the wolves in the SEC as a true freshman when Mauk got suspended and the campus was in the midst of a racial protest in which players were threatening to boycott games until the president resigned. I think he can handle getting roughed up a bit for a handful of games.
                  Lost me when you used the word FAIR for the team.
                  Flacco is the best QB on this team, he deserves to be starter.

                  Lock hasn’t shown he is a better option than Allen right now. If Flacco goes down, Allen gives us the bet chance to win.

                  This team is not the Dolphins, we are not trying to lose to get better players.
                  We will have $70 million in cap space, nobody is gonna want to play for a team that doesn’t play to win.
                  We landed Manning because we were 8-8 and didn’t give up at 1-4.
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                  • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
                    Lost me when you used the word FAIR for the team.
                    Flacco is the best QB on this team, he deserves to be starter.

                    Lock hasn’t shown he is a better option than Allen right now. If Flacco goes down, Allen gives us the bet chance to win.

                    This team is not the Dolphins, we are not trying to lose to get better players.
                    We will have $70 million in cap space, nobody is gonna want to play for a team that doesn’t play to win.
                    We landed Manning because we were 8-8 and didn’t give up at 1-4.
                    What on earth are you basing the bolded part on?

                    Also we went 8-8 after starting 1-4 because we made a switch at QB. Flacco is Orton in the current scenario, and you are one of the people who bought into the “Orton gives us the best chance to win” nonsense that the team was trying to sell back then. Flacco isn’t working. I just don’t get how so many don’t see that.
                    Last edited by BeelzeBob; 10-11-2019, 01:39 PM.

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                    • Originally posted by BeelzeBob View Post
                      I believe doing that forces the team to pay an injury settlement.
                      Wow idk how I missed that but great point.

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                      • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
                        Lost me when you used the word FAIR for the team.
                        Flacco is the best QB on this team, he deserves to be starter.

                        Lock hasn’t shown he is a better option than Allen right now. If Flacco goes down, Allen gives us the bet chance to win.

                        This team is not the Dolphins, we are not trying to lose to get better players.
                        We will have $70 million in cap space, nobody is gonna want to play for a team that doesn’t play to win.
                        We landed Manning because we were 8-8 and didn’t give up at 1-4.
                        If we’re eliminated from the playoffs, there’s no point in starting Flacco anymore for the rest of the season. Allen won’t be here next season so there’s no point in starting him either. So you let Lock start the rest and then have a QB competition next season. And what has Allen shown in his career to make anyone think he gives us the best chance to win?

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                        • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
                          If we’re eliminated from the playoffs, there’s no point in starting Flacco anymore for the rest of the season. Allen won’t be here next season so there’s no point in starting him either. So you let Lock start the rest and then have a QB competition next season. And what has Allen shown in his career to make anyone think he gives us the best chance to win?
                          No reason?
                          How bout to continue to improve our offense like we have done each week.

                          Flacco will be the starter next year and he needs to keep building chemistry with offensive players.

                          Starting Lock, we will lose Flacco’s trust and possibly hurt Lock more than help him.
                          He hasn’t earned an opportunity to start period!
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                          • Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post
                            You must be in the minority that wants to “rush Lock into the game just to see if he’s the future or not so we can draft Tua”.

                            I did not say that Allen was the “future”, I don’t know where you guys get your nerve to make such assumptions, I’d take the time to teach you but I really don’t care what you understand or don’t...

                            Allen is better for the team right now because and as I originally stated, he’s an experienced vet that allows us to carry two capable QBs on the active roster rather than just one.

                            Lock isn’t experienced enough and if you had to toss him to the wolves right now, you only be turning him into David Carr!

                            Like I already said, that is not fair to lock!
                            This is dated thinking, and it's an approach that is a proven failure when it comes to trying to develop quarterbacks. A few years ago I would of agreed, echoed the thoughts of, play the best guy, the veteran is always better, don't just toss a young guy into the game as it will hurt more than help, etc. But, the idea of just having a veteran arm around is useless, it really is.

                            If you want to develop a young quarterback, they need every single possible mental and physical repetition they can get. Almost every job imaginable, almost, you are only going to get better at that job by practice, by actually doing it. As a teacher, all the theory and learning in a class room is almost pointless, you don't become good at your craft until you walk into that classroom everyday as a substitute teacher and have 30 kids treat you like dirt for 60 minutes. You adapt and learn how to cope.

                            In recent years young quarterbacks have played a lot, and proving to be able to handle it. I wont rattle off the names, but look at the guys from the past 3 drafts who have entered the league, been told they will have to wait their turn because the team is going with the veteran arm, why, because he is more prepared, better right now, etc. with the team going on to lose, benching that veteran at some point because as it ALWAYS does, it fails, and the coach in an attempt to save their job goes to the young guy anyway.

                            This was my point in the "Delaying the Inevitable" thread. So many teams have wasted entire off-seasons in just the last 3 years by trying to force a veteran quarterback into the game, to only go to the young guy by mid-season, but no one learns from it. Imagine if instead of wasting OTA's, mini-camps, training camp, and the pre-season on veteran arms who will be on the bench by week 10, you dedicated that entire time into building around the young guy. I think in terms of development, you get that guy as ready as possible, instead of having him sit around aimlessly for months on end, to only throw him into the fire unprepared in week 10.

                            I also believe in that situation, if a young quarterback can play, even if he is thrown into the fire to early, into a bad situation, he will still show flashes to show that franchise he is a guy worth waiting on, and worth trying to put a team around. I would like to see Lock in some capacity this year, especially if we continue on the trajectory we are on. Because we may have another top 10 pick coming up here, and this quarterback class is looking quite inviting, so knowing what we might have from Lock could be very valuable in making future decisions.

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                            • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
                              No reason?
                              How bout to continue to improve our offense like we have done each week.

                              Flacco will be the starter next year and he needs to keep building chemistry with offensive players.

                              Starting Lock, we will lose Flacco’s trust and possibly hurt Lock more than help him.
                              He hasn’t earned an opportunity to start period!
                              If we’re eliminated from the playoffs then the offense didn’t improve enough. Flacco is on the decline and extra chemistry and knowledge of the offense won’t offset that, at best it’ll be a counterbalance and we’ll stay in the same position. If Flacco doesn’t make the playoffs, then he didn’t earn the right to start next season without a real QB competition.

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                              • Originally posted by johnlimburg
                                This is dated thinking, and it's an approach that is a proven failure when it comes to trying to develop quarterbacks. A few years ago I would of agreed, echoed the thoughts of, play the best guy, the veteran is always better, don't just toss a young guy into the game as it will hurt more than help, etc. But, the idea of just having a veteran arm around is useless, it really is.

                                If you want to develop a young quarterback, they need every single possible mental and physical repetition they can get. Almost every job imaginable, almost, you are only going to get better at that job by practice, by actually doing it. As a teacher, all the theory and learning in a class room was almost pointless to me. I didn't become good at my craft until I walked into that classroom everyday as a substitute teacher and had 30 kids treat me like dirt for 60 minutes. You adapt and learn how to cope.

                                In recent years young quarterbacks have played a lot, and proving to be able to handle it. I wont rattle off the names, but look at the guys from the past 3 drafts who have entered the league, been told they will have to wait their turn because the team is going with the veteran arm, why, because he is more prepared, better right now, etc. With the team going on to lose, then bench that veteran at some point because as it ALWAYS does, it fails, and the coach in an attempt to save their job goes to the young guy.

                                This was my point in the "Delaying the Inevitable" thread. The amount of teams who have wasted entire off-seasons in just the last 3 years by trying to force a veteran quarterback into the game, to only go to the young guy by mid-season, it's ridiculous how many teams have done it, but no one learns from it. Imagine if instead of wasting OTA's, mini-camps, training camp, and the pre-season on veteran arms who will be on the bench by week 10, you dedicated that entire time into building around the young guy. I think in terms of development, you get that guy as ready as possible, instead of having him sit around aimlessly for months on end to then just throw him into the fire unprepared in week 10.

                                I also believe if a young quarterback can play, even if he is thrown into the fire to early, into a bad situation, he will still show flashes to show that franchise he is a guy worth waiting on, and worth trying to put a team around. I would like to see Lock in some capacity this year, especially if we continue on the trajectory we are on. Because we may have another top 10 pick coming up here, and this quarterback class is looking quite inviting, so knowing what we might have from Lock could be very valuable in making future decisions.
                                Knowing what we have in lock is the number 1 reason why I believe starting him this year is a horrible decision.
                                Lock isn’t ready but let’s start him week 10 and if he struggles we will draft another qb instead of getting a top 10 olineman, receiver, or defensive player.
                                How did drafting Tommy Maddox instead of getting Elway Carl Pickens work?
                                How bout drafting Philip Rivers instead of building around Brees and adding Larry Fitzgerald?

                                We know we need another 1 or 2 receiving weapons and at the least 2 or 3 olineman, but let’s throw an inexperienced QB in there and see what he can do on an offense that needs more talent and is still learning its identity.
                                Anybody that wants Lock to be our future does not want to see him this year in our current offense.
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