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  • Originally posted by DiveInstructor View Post

    PFF has the Texans line ranked higher than the Broncos, btw:

    https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2...-line-rankings

    Both were bad, but the Broncos ranked worse. Now, him being better here?

    They also had Bolles as the highest rated LT....

    Edit....my apologies he's the 3rd highest rated LT
    Last edited by JvDub95; 02-05-2021, 08:57 AM.

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    • Originally posted by Ear2dastreets View Post

      Umm yea ....pff means nothing to me.....they bring in stuff for their conclusion....
      PFF means as much to me as any other stat-based site. Point is, it's all opinion. I rely more on watching the film, and to me, both lines look lousy, as well as team blocking. Since both teams faced different opponents and approached the game differently, I can't say exactly which is worse. I do know that the pocket tended to collapse on Watson, partly because I saw him stand in it, whereas Lock runs around like a chicken with its head cut off, making it seem like the pass protection is better. I know both teams had bad records. And, I know that Watson's mechanics are better than Locks, as is his decision making. What I don't know is if that'll help the Broncos to more wins. It wasn't enough to help the Texans.

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      • Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post

        Being a fan doesn't give any level of entitlement, it's a choice we all make to get emotionally involved. Some like/love their team more than others and that's a bad thing? I want to see this organization move in a positive direction....is there something wrong with that? Maybe you need to get more involved because the Broncos organization has given me things. I've been playing in the Broncos message board fantasy football league and I've gotten free prizes for it. This is a great organization, they love their fans and if it were all about the money why would they hold fan appreciation days? It gives some people that don't have a lot something to get involved with and have something in common with others. It's a comradery thing and if organizations want to build and maintain a strong fan base they have to put a quality product on the field.

        I'll continue to be a fan of the Denver Broncos because I have been most of my life. I'll continue to be a fan of the Denver Broncos because they are a winning organization and they have winning history. They are a team that refuses to settle for mediocrity and they fight for championships. That's who I am and I relate to that....am I entitled because I'm a fan? No, but the mutual feeling is there from organization to fan and I respect that. I have strong faith that this team will do everything in it's power to put a winning team together again. Every team goes through slumps and the good ones don't stay down long and this is a good one.....
        Well, the organization hasn't been that great lately, especially without Pat Bowlen. They talk a good line, but their actions lately have said something different. Don't get me wrong, I support them because I know those who hold on to being a fan of the logo get happiness when the team does well, and I like seeing Broncos fans happy. Heck, they're my neighbors. I truly hope they get a great owner who holds the same values as Pat did, and knows enough to put great people in place to make the team succeed. But, I'm not "locked in" to any one team. I like great football, and it isn't always the Broncos are giving us the best football. I guess I kinda wonder about this because I see "hatred" of guys like Brady or teams like the Chiefs. I can't "hate" them because they're good. Heck, I can't hate them if they're bad. I just like good football, wherever it comes from.

        BTW, I'm not slamming people who are fans. I just don't have the same "feelings" that they do, so I ask the question. To me, liking a team just "because" doesn't hold water, but that's just me, and it certainly doesn't mean my opinion is right. Oh, and when I go to a Broncos game, you couldn't tell me being any different than any other fan. I scream as loud as I can when the opposition's offense is on the field, and I never boo a Broncos player.
        Last edited by DiveInstructor; 02-05-2021, 09:59 AM.

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        • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

          There’s no argument I can make against this. I mean I could, but the eye test is a subjective thing. It’s what you see, it may not be what I see. It may be right, it may be a million miles off base. But I definitely see it a different way than you do.

          You say he isn’t accurate, but he’s inaccurate for things that can be coached up and those were things he did show improvement in especially down the stretch last season. I agree he’s not dynamically mobile, but he is mobile and can run, he’s far from a statue. He was actually very effective when he ran read option plays and even throwing on the run to his right off bootlegs. Throwing while running to his left is a massive work in progress but it’s really as simple as squaring up and making sure he gets the inseam of his foot lined up with his target. His arm doesn’t even pass your eye test? He has a cannon, I’ve seen him throw 20 yard outs from the opposite side of the field, he has put the ball in very tight windows that few QBs can. Again throwing on the run to his right it’s all arm strength because he never gets squared up or sets his feet correctly and he’s bombed some out of the reach of everyone.

          Now it isn’t consistent, none of it is. But that’s why I preach patience. There isn’t 1 bad thing that can’t be corrected through coaching and there wasn’t 1 bad thing I saw that lasted consistently all season. He got better at reading defense pre and post snap, he got through his progressions faster as the season went on, his footwork was the one thing that remained bad most of the season but in week 17 he seemed to finally figure it out. That shows that he is responding to coaching, now it isn’t always a steady upward progression but it rarely ever is. That’s why I’m preaching patience. He just has to get it committed to memory through physical repetition.



          If we’re not getting Watson or Prescott we are much better served to just stick it out with Lock and hope he improves or gets us a better draft spot than 9 next season.
          The thing is, Lock wasn't particularly accurate in college either. His career completion percentage in school was below 57%. By comparison, Tim Tebow - who many consider one of the most inaccurate professional quarterbacks in recent memory - had a 66% completion percentage at Florida. This was part of the reason why Lock fell into the 2nd round when he was initially projected to be a high 1st round pick in 2018 and a first round pick in 2019. Can that be coached up? I guess, but what I saw all year long was when Lock was confused or felt pressure, his pocket awareness and mechanics deteriorated. And most perplexing is that all his picks in 2020 were in 3-wide spread formations, when that's what he operated under in college - not the Scangarello offense.

          I just don't see it with Lock. I know we can argue it's still too early but his coaches and even his teammates appear ready to move on. Having said that, I do agree with you that if we can't land a Watson or Prescott-type quarterback in the off season, or draft someone we really love in the first round, then we may as well just ride it out with Lock for another year.
          sigpic

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          • Originally posted by Ear2dastreets View Post

            When do you become the Broncos Jr. GM??? Please let me know????
            I’d support even you as the Broncos GM if it meant Elway were finally gone and yes I know, that is saying something.

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            • Originally posted by Ear2dastreets View Post

              NO you don't watch the game...good way to go back and "GOOGLE" stat line. Which yet again someone who has never play the game would make that assumption.

              Yea its Watson fault the defense couldnt stop a running nose.

              Lock sorry ass played from behind why his stats don't look that?


              You placing the blame on Watson for that is very idiotic.

              There were 15 other teams that had losing records why don't their qb lead the league in passing with a 33 -7 td ratio?????? Please explain why Mr know it all about Watson. Find me one qb outta those to with better stats...ill wait.

              I'm off work today so I'm here ALLL day...
              Wow what a treat that you will post stupid stuff here all day and tell us how smart you think your are!
              Why should we care about meaningless passing stats from a QB that cannot lead his team to victory?
              Hopefully some idiots outside of the Broncos organization gets the primadonna and trades away their future for DW. Hopefully it will be the Raiders that do that so they can be decimated for another decade!

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              • Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post

                Wow what a treat that you will post stupid stuff here all day and tell us how smart you think your are!
                Why should we care about meaningless passing stats from a QB that cannot lead his team to victory?
                Hopefully some idiots outside of the Broncos organization gets the primadonna and trades away their future for DW. Hopefully it will be the Raiders that do that so they can be decimated for another decade!
                If what I post is stupid....what you post is garbage 🗑......what you and like a small select group think low of watson......News NO qb does any alone......will us team to win hahahahah......like i said I know for fact you never played the game of football outside of Playstation on madden....go guess Rodgers didn't will his team to victory no way Broncos should want him....hell any qb that doesn't win the superbowl sucks and they stats don't matter bc they didn't win the superbowl.....

                Primadonna??? So I guess Bretagne Farve, Matt Stafford, Carson wentz, Carson palmer are all Primadonna too..


                If the raider do get Watson.....I bet you we won't finish higher than third in our division


                Oh but wait we currently have the qb that has had the most excuses made for him on the planet....and lead the league in ints....below 58% comp bottom three in worst qbr.....no way should we want a 3 time pro bowler, a guy that gave away his first pay check to homeless and still doing community work in Houston, what on earth are we thinking


                Ummm idk probably why we have 5 losing seasons in a row...let's make it 6 with lock.

                I'm here all day.
                Until we get a TRUE not name "Lock" qb we will miss the playoffs and be average at best! I'm E2DS and I approve this message! "AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW, NOW YA KNOW."

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                • Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post

                  You get hung up on the draft picks because you are assuming that those picks are going to actually hit. Every one of them have the possibility of being bust's. Watson is a guarantee and makes this team an instant contender....I don't see the problem with that. Money will take care of itself. Getting Watson on board will entice other free agents too and players will except cheaper deal's to play with him....same thing Manning did for us

                  Salary cap means you can only be good so many places. Giving up draft picks to get a QB is worth it. I would much rather be great at QB than good in several other places. 90+% of the time the final 4 remaining teams in the playoffs are the teams that have the better QB.

                  Everybody wants Lock to pan out. What has he shown that will happen? 32nd ranked QB this season, that doesn't scream build around me. With Deshaun we'd be in the mix every year. I don't care the cost, I'm so tired of crap QBs. If there is even a hint of a possibility that Denver can land Watson it HAS to be taken, not even a debate imo...
                  Correct, and everyone of them has the potential to be a building block for the future. But, I don't assume any pick will hit or be used wisely when Elway is still in the building, however, I know that the way to build a team out of the place we have been buried in is with consistent solid selections early in the draft by getting players who develop and emerge as good NFL players. The attitude of "money will take care of itself" shows the ignorance to the understanding of why teams just don't make these sorts of moves, giving up high draft picks and huge contracts in one transaction, it's bad for business and bad for team building, the history shows us that and that is what I get hung up on.

                  Also, what was the Texans record this past year ? What was the record with Watson playing ? Obviously other factors are at play, however your guarantee and certainty of being a team who is an instant contender and competing every year just because Watson is around was proven otherwise in the most recent sample of play, so your confidence there is unwarranted. And I would contend our roster isn't much better if at all, and just like when everyone wanted to throw ridiculous cash at the stat padder Cousins a few years ago, I would contend most people advocating selling the farm for Watson haven't watched more than a highlight video and looked at the stat line on Watson either.

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                  • Originally posted by Ear2dastreets View Post

                    If what I post is stupid....what you post is garbage 🗑......what you and like a small select group think low of watson......News NO qb does any alone......will us team to win hahahahah......like i said I know for fact you never played the game of football outside of Playstation on madden....go guess Rodgers didn't will his team to victory no way Broncos should want him....hell any qb that doesn't win the superbowl sucks and they stats don't matter bc they didn't win the superbowl.....

                    Primadonna??? So I guess Bretagne Farve, Matt Stafford, Carson wentz, Carson palmer are all Primadonna too..


                    If the raider do get Watson.....I bet you we won't finish higher than third in our division


                    Oh but wait we currently have the qb that has had the most excuses made for him on the planet....and lead the league in ints....below 58% comp bottom three in worst qbr.....no way should we want a 3 time pro bowler, a guy that gave away his first pay check to homeless and still doing community work in Houston, what on earth are we thinking


                    Ummm idk probably why we have 5 losing seasons in a row...let's make it 6 with lock.

                    I'm here all day.
                    I’m probably gonna get in trouble from the mods but, holy crap, your posts are some of the most arrogant and disrespectful posts I’ve seen on this board in awhile.
                    Adopted Bronco: DeMarcus Ware

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                    • Originally posted by broncoslover115 View Post

                      I’m probably gonna get in trouble from the mods but, holy crap, your posts are some of the most arrogant and disrespectful posts I’ve seen on this board in awhile.
                      Again not surprised most only look at what I say and not what was said to me...

                      If thats what you got outta outta that.... idk what to tell you...

                      Again you could have sent me a personal message or skipped over it....

                      Just trying to get me in trouble with the mods....no worries im use to it.....I

                      #itstwosidestoeachstory
                      Until we get a TRUE not name "Lock" qb we will miss the playoffs and be average at best! I'm E2DS and I approve this message! "AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW, NOW YA KNOW."

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by johnlimburg View Post

                        Correct, and everyone of them has the potential to be a building block for the future. But, I don't assume any pick will hit or be used wisely when Elway is still in the building, however, I know that the way to build a team out of the place we have been buried in is with consistent solid selections early in the draft by getting players who develop and emerge as good NFL players. The attitude of "money will take care of itself" shows the ignorance to the understanding of why teams just don't make these sorts of moves, giving up high draft picks and huge contracts in one transaction, it's bad for business and bad for team building, the history shows us that and that is what I get hung up on.

                        Also, what was the Texans record this past year ? What was the record with Watson playing ? Obviously other factors are at play, however your guarantee and certainty of being a team who is an instant contender and competing every year just because Watson is around was proven otherwise in the most recent sample of play, so your confidence there is unwarranted. And I would contend our roster isn't much better if at all, and just like when everyone wanted to throw ridiculous cash at the stat padder Cousins a few years ago, I would contend most people advocating selling the farm for Watson haven't watched more than a highlight video and looked at the stat line on Watson either.
                        Ok, but Denver has been drafting high for a few years now...where has that lead them? Regardless of who was drafting we've been drafting in positions to have the better end of draft prospects. And, they continue to end up on the wrong side of success. The way I see it is QB play being the ultimate factor. Every team deals with injuries and bumps and bruises along the way but the teams with the top QBs are the teams that are still standing in the end. I'm not ignorant and I would appreciate you refraining from making such accusations.

                        Eventually top prospects QB or other will demand top dollar, we WILL HAVE TO PAY at some time. Being scared to pony up and pay for talent will result in poor product. Do the Chiefs have buyers remorse? Do the Packers have buyers remorse? Colts with Manning? You said it yourself, other factors involved with Watson this last year. There isn't a player, coach, scout, GM etc, that won't admit Watson is a top 5 QB in this league. Maybe you are ok with the Kyle Orton's, Trevor Siemians or Drew Locks of the world but I'm sick of it. If we can't draft our top QB then trade and pay for one

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                        • Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post

                          Ok, but Denver has been drafting high for a few years now...where has that lead them? ...
                          Excellent point. There are teams that have been consistent late 1st round picks, simply because they've assembled a good team, often with a knock-out QB, that continually are in the post-season hunt. Trouble is, the Broncos don't have that QB, and arguably their staff isn't good enough to manage a team consistently to the post season and make great 1st round choices. Maybe Paton is the positive change to that problem. Maybe.

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                          • I'll add this about first round picks, it's value is based on what a team thinks of themselves. If you are drafting late in the first, maybe you view that pick as a glorified early 2nd round pick.
                            You look at the Rams they haven't had a first round pick since 2016. They won't have one until 2024. They have been a playoff team since. Why do they make these trades, probably bc they don't view their 1st round selection spot as all that necessary when they feel trading it away keeps them contending.

                            All trades are risk vs reward. Trading draft picks do risk the future, but the reward is an established player who will have you competing now. Vs the risk/reward of drafting...where yes you make your first round pick, but that pick could end up not being good, and out the league in 4yrs. Look at a team like the Lions whom are constantly drafting high, what pay off has it had for them?
                            Most of the players they've drafted in the first within the last decade are either on another team or not in the league anymore.

                            But then there are teams like the Bills and Browns that have had very solid drafts and are playoff teams.

                            There is always a risk/reward with any decision making. Paton and many GMs who are in need of a QB, are weighing those risk/rewards right now. They are talking to their scouts, asking what the outlook could look like in 3yrs. They are talking to their coaches to be on the same page about any possible decision.

                            Rams weighed their risk vs reward and they've chosen they'll use rounds 2 throu 7 to build their team, and give up first round picks for star players.
                            sigpic
                            Adopted Broncos:
                            EmmanuelSanders

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                            • Originally posted by InsaneBlaze23 View Post
                              I'll add this about first round picks, it's value is based on what a team thinks of themselves. If you are drafting late in the first, maybe you view that pick as a glorified early 2nd round pick.
                              You look at the Rams they haven't had a first round pick since 2016. They won't have one until 2024. They have been a playoff team since. Why do they make these trades, probably bc they don't view their 1st round selection spot as all that necessary when they feel trading it away keeps them contending.

                              All trades are risk vs reward. Trading draft picks do risk the future, but the reward is an established player who will have you competing now. Vs the risk/reward of drafting...where yes you make your first round pick, but that pick could end up not being good, and out the league in 4yrs. Look at a team like the Lions whom are constantly drafting high, what pay off has it had for them?
                              Most of the players they've drafted in the first within the last decade are either on another team or not in the league anymore.

                              But then there are teams like the Bills and Browns that have had very solid drafts and are playoff teams.

                              There is always a risk/reward with any decision making. Paton and many GMs who are in need of a QB, are weighing those risk/rewards right now. They are talking to their scouts, asking what the outlook could look like in 3yrs. They are talking to their coaches to be on the same page about any possible decision.

                              Rams weighed their risk vs reward and they've chosen they'll use rounds 2 throu 7 to build their team, and give up first round picks for star players.
                              Good post!
                              sigpic

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                              • Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post

                                Ok, but Denver has been drafting high for a few years now...where has that lead them? Regardless of who was drafting we've been drafting in positions to have the better end of draft prospects. And, they continue to end up on the wrong side of success. The way I see it is QB play being the ultimate factor. Every team deals with injuries and bumps and bruises along the way but the teams with the top QBs are the teams that are still standing in the end. I'm not ignorant and I would appreciate you refraining from making such accusations.

                                Eventually top prospects QB or other will demand top dollar, we WILL HAVE TO PAY at some time. Being scared to pony up and pay for talent will result in poor product. Do the Chiefs have buyers remorse? Do the Packers have buyers remorse? Colts with Manning? You said it yourself, other factors involved with Watson this last year. There isn't a player, coach, scout, GM etc, that won't admit Watson is a top 5 QB in this league. Maybe you are ok with the Kyle Orton's, Trevor Siemians or Drew Locks of the world but I'm sick of it. If we can't draft our top QB then trade and pay for one
                                You are far removed from reality. Do you think any general manager has ever thought to themselves what you just uttered here ? There is no way Mr. Patton our new General Manager is saying to himself, or any other General Manager of any NFL team ever, "we blew em the last few years, why not throw em away in a trade ?". That is looking at it from a fan's perspective only, and again in my opinion, not reality.

                                I am also not necessarily calling you as an individual ignorant, but the perspective is, maybe reframing it to as I have above, removed from reality, it is not how the NFL works. Your next point as well, you are framing things in a way with this certainty that is questionable, and missing the point, again. You just listed a whole heap of teams there and the great decisions I also agree with you about in regards to buyers remorse, but it isn't a comparable situation. As I am trying to say, the teams didn't give up those massive contracts along with multiple high round picks for several years upcoming in one transaction, it is different, and that matters to this conversation. I am one of few people on here who was defending the Chiefs and the contract they gave to Mahomes, I loved it, and if we had the guy worthy to pay, or if Watson was just a free agent, I would be okay with it.

                                Also don't tell me I'm okay with these terrible talents year after year. You have constantly along with others around here thought of me as a hater in my thoughts I write about this team, but I have been the one wanting massive overhauls, calling for rebuilds, questioning Elway, and calling these losing seasons for years. While others, you, have had much more optimism and defend the moves Elway makes for some reason to be consistently wrong like it was okay we are now going on potentially 5 losing seasons in a row. Don't direct that non-sense at me when you know I have been calling for massive changes around here for a long time. I just understand that this type of transaction is not often done, because it is understood, by most, that it isn't smart.

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