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  • Originally posted by broncolee View Post

    So you’re going to blame Lock for Shurmur failing to devise an offense that Lock can operate?

    Maybe Lock would have produced better results if Shurmur did a better job of utilizing Lock’s strengths rather than asking him to do things he isn’t suited for.
    What was Locks wonderlic score......ohh thats right 26. The NFL average is 24. If Lock cant handle the playbook we have bigger problems then Shurmur. The broncos offense was already about as vanilla as it got for an AFC team.

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    • Originally posted by rst08tierney View Post

      What was Locks wonderlic score......ohh thats right 26. The NFL average is 24. If Lock cant handle the playbook we have bigger problems then Shurmur. The broncos offense was already about as vanilla as it got for an AFC team.
      Mahomes scored a 24, too.

      https://www.insidehook.com/article/s...0the%20Bengals.)

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      • Originally posted by rst08tierney View Post

        What was Locks wonderlic score......ohh thats right 26. The NFL average is 24. If Lock cant handle the playbook we have bigger problems then Shurmur. The broncos offense was already about as vanilla as it got for an AFC team.
        If we’re going to use the NFL’s wonderlic test as a measure of intelligence, then shame on Shurmur for making his offense too difficult for an above average intelligence quarterback to handle.

        Marino scored a 13.

        Lock improved when they finally simplified the offense. Shurmur should have started out with the simplified offense.
        My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
        You Mad Bro?
        Don’t Be A Mean Girl

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        • Originally posted by broncolee View Post

          It was a new offense and Shurmur should have adjusted sooner.
          Unfortunately Shurmur is incapable of making adjustments. I hope he enjoys his last year a an OC because he'll be gone regardless of who the QB is.
          Last edited by JW7; 02-14-2021, 12:18 PM.
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          • Also, as far this 'revaltion' goes. You're supposed to adjust your offense into what a young QB does best. Lock most likely won't work out but he is hampered by the worst OC in the NFL. I'm not saying this as an excuse for Lock. I honestly don't think Lock succeeds here regardless but he is certainly handicapped by this unimaginative, horrendous OC.

            An article coming out saying they needed to dumb down the offense on Lock does nothing for me. Just shows me that we had an OC that refused to make adjustments. Shurmur's offenses have never been a world beaters. He does not have the accolades to warrant his role and it angers me that he will stay here another year because no young QB is setup for success as long as he is running the show.
            Last edited by JW7; 02-14-2021, 12:28 PM.
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            • I think it's telling that players mentioned Scangs name. I can't recall anyone talking up Shurmur's offense. Mr run three wide sets with no protection and run Lindsay up the middle every first down. It baffles me how this fool was brought back.
              Last edited by JW7; 02-14-2021, 01:26 PM.
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              • Originally posted by DiveInstructor View Post


                Ok, tell ya what. I'm gonna send you to four years of a mechanical engineering program at, oh, say School of Mines or CSU or CU. Then, I'm going to hire you as a structural analyst, and throw you in front of a software like Marq or maybe even something relatively dumbed down like Autodesk's FEA package (which is really Algor). I'll tell you to take 6 months, go through the tutorials, and then I'm going to give you a structural analysis problem of wind loadings on wind turbine blades which are lay-ups of different anisotropic, non-linear materials joined by a variety of adhesives. You're to give me the design factor of safety for that blade. Ya know what? You're going to fail miserably.

                A good organization understands that when you bring in people without years of experience at a position, whether that's an NFL team or an engineering team like I described, it's up to you to make sure you give them the proper training so you can at least evaluate their potential, if not give you an accurate example of what they can do. Yes, it was up to Lock to study. No doubt. But, what did they do for him? Does the team even have a VR system yet? I know for years they didn't. I also know they brought in Flacco, who was a worn out QB at best. What was he going to teach Lock, while lock was on IR? How to turn a 7 step drop into an 11 step drop then get sacked? They had a rookie OC that first year. That's not good. Then, they toss him and bring in an OC who is certainly not in the discussions of the good OC's in the NFL.

                I've seen NFL teams so ill prepared to set up their teams. The Broncos has been one of them. It's why they need to guess their way into success, because they sure as hell haven't shown the ability to do it based on their decisions and actions. Could've Lock done better? Don't know. I do know what's visible to us sure as hell doesn't look like a solid plan with execution to grow a 2nd round QB in the NFL. Will Paton change that with personnel? Dunno either. But, he was assistance GM when they hired Cousins, and we see how that turned out. He doesn't have a glowing resume that inspires confidence at the QB position, either.
                Wow DI, impressive post. Your analogy is superb and I agree 100%.

                I was in Quality Control / Quality Assurance for nearly 30 years, 13 years in aerospace, with the worlds largest manufacturer of solid propellant rocket motors. I was around numerous engineers (Quality, Manufacturing, Process, Mechanical, etc.) Mostly Quality engineers for me and every time a new engineer was hired (many of them were fresh out of college) they were immediately paired for 4 to 6 months with a "seasoned engineer" that had excellent knowledge of solid rocket motor technology. Engineering these products (rocket motors) that propel nuke warheads or put up to 7 astronauts in orbit requires doing the job with exacting precision and maintaining strong safety protocol to hopefully avoid disaster.

                Being paired with or under the tutelage of a seasoned QB (not a Flacco) and good coaching is paramount for success. Lock hasn't had that so if we can acquire a proven veteran QB to play and work with Lock will create good possibilities for success in the near future.
                Utah Bronco Freak

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                • Originally posted by broncolee View Post

                  So you’re going to blame Lock for Shurmur failing to devise an offense that Lock can operate?

                  Maybe Lock would have produced better results if Shurmur did a better job of utilizing Lock’s strengths rather than asking him to do things he isn’t suited for.
                  I'm not absolving Shurmur of any blame. He's not a good OC.

                  But Lock makes poor decisions like throwing into double and triple coverage. His footwork has not improved. He lacks pocket awareness. That's on him.

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                  • Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post

                    Terrible comparison..... you're talking about mechanical engineering vs a GAME!! A game that kids play All he has to do memorize plays and execute them. Pretty sure kids aren't asked to design engines or structures. Not that hard to ask an adult to put the ball in the end zone and organize players on a chess board to help him out
                    It's a great comparison / analogy, IMO. You state: "All he has to do memorize plays and execute them." Really? Then all teachers from grade K-12 have to do is give an assignment and demand they obtain an "A" for their report because all the student had to do was memorized the answers in the assignment. If that's all what teaching (COACHING) is then why do we need GOOD teachers (COACHES)? Just read the assignment, memorize the answers and get (execute) an "A" on the test. What's the problem?

                    I wasn't the best student but I always did much better regardless of the subject when the teacher was exciting when they spoke to maintained my attention vs a boring teacher that was weak in their execution and spoke in a slow, soft monotone that almost put me to sleep.

                    Learning how to play a "game" whether you're 3 or 23 requires learning the fundamentals of that game and try to minimize mistakes and that will ultimately teach the person to learn from the mistakes, focus on the fundamentals to improve their chances for success. I had many childhood friends (I'm dating myself) that were very creative with Tinker toys, Lincoln logs, Erector sets and building cool things with popsicle sticks and Elmer's glue, etc. Me...not so much and no, I never ate the glue but some kids did....I'm serious.
                    Utah Bronco Freak

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                    • Originally posted by jazzbodog View Post

                      It's a great comparison / analogy, IMO. You state: "All he has to do memorize plays and execute them." Really? Then all teachers from grade K-12 have to do is give an assignment and demand they obtain an "A" for their report because all the student had to do was memorized the answers in the assignment. If that's all what teaching (COACHING) is then why do we need GOOD teachers (COACHES)? Just read the assignment, memorize the answers and get (execute) an "A" on the test. What's the problem?

                      I wasn't the best student but I always did much better regardless of the subject when the teacher was exciting when they spoke to maintained my attention vs a boring teacher that was weak in their execution and spoke in a slow, soft monotone that almost put me to sleep.

                      Learning how to play a "game" whether you're 3 or 23 requires learning the fundamentals of that game and try to minimize mistakes and that will ultimately teach the person to learn from the mistakes, focus on the fundamentals to improve their chances for success. I had many childhood friends (I'm dating myself) that were very creative with Tinker toys, Lincoln logs, Erector sets and building cool things with popsicle sticks and Elmer's glue, etc. Me...not so much and no, I never ate the glue but some kids did....I'm serious.
                      Of course it takes learning....he has a QB coach that he works with every day. My usage of the QB coach was referring to his inability to teach or is it Locks inability to comprehend? Sorry, you can't compare an engineer job to playing a game, jmo

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                      • Its just Football, just a game, a bunch of over paid athletes, not rocket science.

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                        • Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post

                          Of course it takes learning....he has a QB coach that he works with every day. My usage of the QB coach was referring to his inability to teach or is it Locks inability to comprehend? Sorry, you can't compare an engineer job to playing a game, jmo
                          I totally agree. I wouldn't compare the two....most football players have been playing football since pop Warner.....football is using mental and physical traits.

                          We all have our own opinions.....it is what it is.
                          Until we get a TRUE not name "Lock" qb we will miss the playoffs and be average at best! I'm E2DS and I approve this message! "AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW, NOW YA KNOW."

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                          • Originally posted by TheAsianPA View Post
                            At senior bowl, insiders were stating that many are down on Lock because he couldn't handle the full offense.

                            https://www.si.com/nfl/broncos/news/...-insider-rumor
                            I really hate hit pieces like that. No true attribution and appears ramblings over beers which as we know can get exaggerated. And the guy who wrote the article was not even there but getting second hand information. A responsible journalist would of taken that info and try to verify it through other sources, and not run with unverified rumors.

                            I don't believe Lock has trouble understanding the playbook, but he may have trouble executing it. In the NFL, the QB has to understand a lot of things at the line of scrimmage - recognize the defense, know the protection, know what play and protection to get into based on the defense. Lock by his own admission admitted he struggled with that. Yes I believe Drew Lock can get better but unfortunately he did not perform well enough in 2020 to earn the right to be the unchallenged starting QB. What is Lock's ceiling in the NFL? That is what the Broncos have to evaluate. Since they went after Stafford it appears they don't think his ceiling is very good in the short term.

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                            • Originally posted by Capt. Jack View Post
                              Its just Football, just a game, a bunch of over paid athletes, not rocket science.

                              and.....there it is

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                              • Originally posted by Ear2dastreets View Post

                                I totally agree. I wouldn't compare the two....most football players have been playing football since pop Warner.....football is using mental and physical traits.

                                We all have our own opinions.....it is what it is.
                                And, many engineers were good at math and science for many of their childhood years, advancing in those courses through middle and high school. By the time I was in 6th grade, they were already talking to me about a career in the sciences or engineering and pointed me that direction. I still needed training when I graduated college and got in my job.. Granted, football requires special physical traits, but the whole point was even with formal preparation for a "job", the inexperienced still need training once they get the job.

                                If being a great QB that could understand the playbook and read defenses was so easy, why aren't there 20 guys in rookie NFL years that are Manning-like QB's? Hell, there are plenty of athletic guys at the QB position that can throw a ball great. But, how many turn out to be great? Few.I think it's "easy" only to the layman....kinda like when the layman says things like, "well, why don't you just design it to work right?"
                                Last edited by DiveInstructor; 02-14-2021, 04:31 PM.

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