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  • Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post

    We are talking is Lock better than DWatson - 35million/year for FAs, 3 first round draft picks, some talking that they are willing to also give 3 2nd rounders + players.
    The whole DW talk is insane. Never in NFL history has a deal like that made a team in the Broncos situation better.

    ...

    Everything I hated about Jay Cutler fits with DW on top of a contract that will hamper the team for years, and a player that deliver empty stats and not wins.

    I will much rather have a 5 win season with Lock on a rookie contract than selling the future to go 6-10 with a QB that will skip at the first sign of adversity. It is nice for young guys to go partying, but it does not work in a place where ex. John Fox tells that they had to hire an extra coach for Peyton because he was not satisfied with only analysing 6 games per week,...
    First, every year there's a, "never in history has there been a contract like this." That doesn't negate the success of the contract. It might make it probable for failure, but it is no guarantee.

    Second, Peyton took over the playbook when he arrived. The OC and the coach listened to him. That's why you didn't hear anything. The only time that changed was early during the Kubiak year when Manning was hobbled. And, they eventually returned to much of what Peyton wanted. Oh, and there was discontent by Peyton and him acting out (the practice incident with him taking snaps off to the side of the team). But, he wasn't in the same situation as Watson, with Watson being early in his career and healthy, with no say in the matter. Also, Watson has been pretty quiet publicly, even when everyone around him have diarrhea of the mouth. From the games I went back and watched, Watson was working every play on the field, even when the protection and offense was falling to pieces around him. Oh, and go look at the Houston SB site. Listen to what the media and fans are saying about the team's management. That front office is a dumpster fire, so it's no wonder some speak out, especially those who have potential for great futures.

    Last, thanks for the result of next year's season. I'm glad your crystal ball is so clear. Can you tell me the final score of the next SB so I can bet on it? While we're at it, how much do you want to throw in?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post

      Offcause it is a valid argument that Lock is a better option. We are not talking a Watson for Lock trade where Houston keeps paying for Deshaun Watsons contract and we keep paying for Locks'.
      We are talking is Lock better than DWatson - 35million/year for FAs, 3 first round draft picks, some talking that they are willing to also give 3 2nd rounders + players.
      The whole DW talk is insane. Never in NFL history has a deal like that made a team in the Broncos situation better.

      In the 5 year reuion show of the No Fly Zone Bradley Roby really confirms why I don't want us getting Deshaun Watson - https://youtu.be/AAqvBefZQH0?t=701
      It is just not worth persuing a guy that has star status and cannot bring a team together. It is blatently absurd that you have bickering, infighting and blamegames going on.
      The QB is far and away the most important player on a team and it is his primary responsibility to make sure that the team functions. Sure other plays roles, but thy are not even close in influence and importance.

      Everything I hated about Jay Cutler fits with DW on top of a contract that will hamper the team for years, and a player that deliver empty stats and not wins.

      I will much rather have a 5 win season with Lock on a rookie contract than selling the future to go 6-10 with a QB that will skip at the first sign of adversity. It is nice for young guys to go partying, but it does not work in a place where ex. John Fox tells that they had to hire an extra coach for Peyton because he was not satisfied with only analysing 6 games per week, but wanted to know all relevant details from all game played. There is just so far from physical talent to the excellence that is needed to bring the SBs.

      Do anyone really think that Texans would have a disintegrated locker room and have missed the playoffs if Tom Brady had gone there instead of Tampa?

      I am not high on Lock but I do not want to trade for DW at all!
      Is there player testimony on Watson being a poor leader? Bad teammate? Just because he wants out of a cancerous situation you assume that he is the problem? Maybe my extreme want to FINALLY have the QB position resolved is clouding my judgement a little but from all accounts Deshaun is perceived as a genuine good man. I don't see Jay Cutler in him at all.

      I'm 100% sold that he will be traded. SF, Car and Den are the top favorite teams to land him. You are telling me that you would rather see him go to either team? I can put a guarantee stamp that he will make all teams an instant playoff/superbowl contending team. You don't want that?

      Let's say he does choose Denver and we give up 3 1st round picks a couple 2nds and a player or two. Looking at our offense right now, where are we lacking that those high picks are needed to improve the roster? My only question is RT which, could be fixed if James decides he actually wants to play football again. Defense will need some upgrades for sure but free agency can keep us floating there. Remember the cap will go back up after this year too.

      I'm not scared one bit about the cost of Deshauns contract or the loss of picks. Our offense is ready to sky rocket, we just need a Watson or Wilson or Prescott to make it run. It's a Ferrari ready to run but Locks running it like a Prius. I do not want to sit back for the next 10 years and watch the Chiefs and Chargers run away with this division because we were too afraid to be bold enough to make a move that could have changed the trajectory of this franchise.

      Is Lock going to get better? That's the 35 million dollar question. Let's say he does get better.... slightly....are we still going to be able to unseat the Chiefs? Are we going to be better than the Chargers? Herbert showed more promise in his rookie year than Lock did in his 2nd. I'm not the biggest fan of Collin Cowterd but he hit the nail on the head when he called Lock the 5th best QB in this division. Carr and Marriota are both better than Lock. This is a situation that needs fixed and needs fixed ASAP!! Or we will be cellar dwelling for the next decade....my two cents

      Comment


      • "A QB that will skip at the first sign of adversity"

        I wonder who went on to play 16 regular season games after seeing their All-Pro, #1 WR get shipped off for meager picks and a washed-up RB. Oh, and not just lackadaisically playing that season either-- but putting up arguably the best season by a QB last year in terms of stats and efficiency.

        Bringing up "partying" is laughable, I'm surprised some of you act like you know Watson personally and what he does in his day-to-day life. I wonder what other excuses some of you will try to project on Watson to make him seem like bad person and unfit for leadership. It's telling to see how quick some of you jump on that to justify telling us why we shouldn't pursue an upgrade at QB.

        Jared Goff just went for two first round picks. Jared Goff. Deshaun Watson is a 3-time Pro Bowler and has been a captain for the Texans since before the front office implosion. Why do we have to compare him and Peyton Manning? Two different people, two different eras. Watson is a superstar and by all accounts, a great person too. I bet y'all would have passed up Watson in the draft too.
        2020 Adopt-A-Bronco: #10 JERRY JEUDY
        Previous Adoptees: #25 CHRIS HARRIS, #38 QUINTON CARTER, #43 TJ WARD

        Comment


        • Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post

          Is there player testimony on Watson being a poor leader? Bad teammate? Just because he wants out of a cancerous situation you assume that he is the problem? Maybe my extreme want to FINALLY have the QB position resolved is clouding my judgement a little but from all accounts Deshaun is perceived as a genuine good man. I don't see Jay Cutler in him at all.

          I'm 100% sold that he will be traded. SF, Car and Den are the top favorite teams to land him. You are telling me that you would rather see him go to either team? I can put a guarantee stamp that he will make all teams an instant playoff/superbowl contending team. You don't want that?

          Let's say he does choose Denver and we give up 3 1st round picks a couple 2nds and a player or two. Looking at our offense right now, where are we lacking that those high picks are needed to improve the roster? My only question is RT which, could be fixed if James decides he actually wants to play football again. Defense will need some upgrades for sure but free agency can keep us floating there. Remember the cap will go back up after this year too.

          I'm not scared one bit about the cost of Deshauns contract or the loss of picks. Our offense is ready to sky rocket, we just need a Watson or Wilson or Prescott to make it run. It's a Ferrari ready to run but Locks running it like a Prius. I do not want to sit back for the next 10 years and watch the Chiefs and Chargers run away with this division because we were too afraid to be bold enough to make a move that could have changed the trajectory of this franchise.

          Is Lock going to get better? That's the 35 million dollar question. Let's say he does get better.... slightly....are we still going to be able to unseat the Chiefs? Are we going to be better than the Chargers? Herbert showed more promise in his rookie year than Lock did in his 2nd. I'm not the biggest fan of Collin Cowterd but he hit the nail on the head when he called Lock the 5th best QB in this division. Carr and Marriota are both better than Lock. This is a situation that needs fixed and needs fixed ASAP!! Or we will be cellar dwelling for the next decade....my two cents
          Why exactly do you think that Brandon Marshall waited until both he and Cutler was out of the NFL to denigate Cutler totally? Anyone denigating Watson would hurt his own career, but it is his bloody job to get the team playing at high level. DW has had all his stats AFTER Houston was already so far behind that it didn't matter.

          I see it as an absolutely absurd fantasy that Deshaun Watson - that has just produced a 4-12 season with a team that is pretty equivalent to Denver - will make us a contender for anything other than pulling off one of the worst trades in NFL history. Wilson, Aarod and players that take those amounts of the team Cap has not even made it back to the SB after getting paid. No team with a top 5 paid QB has won the SB in the cap era. The additional salary to DW is more than our O-line and recievers make collectively. It is like putting a Ferrari motor in a Gremlin and thinking you are going to win the Deytona 500. This is a Hershall Walker or Jeff George kind of deal.



          Comment


          • I'm not completely convinced that the Denver Broncos offense can be compared to a Ferrari at this point?
            (Maybe a Fiat)

            Fix the Offensive line, get a work horse, 100 yd a game, running back, then we would maybe we would be an "entry-level" sports car, but I'm not sure about it being and compared to being Ferrari.
            No disrespect to anybody, I just want to see our offense be able to score some points consistently.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by DiveInstructor View Post

              First, every year there's a, "never in history has there been a contract like this." That doesn't negate the success of the contract. It might make it probable for failure, but it is no guarantee.

              Second, Peyton took over the playbook when he arrived. The OC and the coach listened to him. That's why you didn't hear anything. The only time that changed was early during the Kubiak year when Manning was hobbled. And, they eventually returned to much of what Peyton wanted. Oh, and there was discontent by Peyton and him acting out (the practice incident with him taking snaps off to the side of the team). But, he wasn't in the same situation as Watson, with Watson being early in his career and healthy, with no say in the matter. Also, Watson has been pretty quiet publicly, even when everyone around him have diarrhea of the mouth. From the games I went back and watched, Watson was working every play on the field, even when the protection and offense was falling to pieces around him. Oh, and go look at the Houston SB site. Listen to what the media and fans are saying about the team's management. That front office is a dumpster fire, so it's no wonder some speak out, especially those who have potential for great futures.

              Last, thanks for the result of next year's season. I'm glad your crystal ball is so clear. Can you tell me the final score of the next SB so I can bet on it? While we're at it, how much do you want to throw in?
              That dude you're replying is hilarious 🤣. He is a fan but that's about it... He know absolutely nothing about the QB position. But I know why you reply to him dive.... lol...
              Until we get a TRUE not name "Lock" qb we will miss the playoffs and be average at best! I'm E2DS and I approve this message! "AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW, NOW YA KNOW."

              Comment


              • Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post

                Why exactly do you think that Brandon Marshall waited until both he and Cutler was out of the NFL to denigate Cutler totally? Anyone denigating Watson would hurt his own career, but it is his bloody job to get the team playing at high level. DW has had all his stats AFTER Houston was already so far behind that it didn't matter.

                I see it as an absolutely absurd fantasy that Deshaun Watson - that has just produced a 4-12 season with a team that is pretty equivalent to Denver - will make us a contender for anything other than pulling off one of the worst trades in NFL history. Wilson, Aarod and players that take those amounts of the team Cap has not even made it back to the SB after getting paid. No team with a top 5 paid QB has won the SB in the cap era. The additional salary to DW is more than our O-line and recievers make collectively. It is like putting a Ferrari motor in a Gremlin and thinking you are going to win the Deytona 500. This is a Hershall Walker or Jeff George kind of deal.


                So...ride with Lock? That's the answer? And what if he doesn't get better? We draft top ten again and we are just sitting here on a revolving carousel of crap and looking at changing coaches and another year of the question how to fix the QB spot. If we stay with Lock and he pulls of a Houdini act and we make playoffs I will be the 1st in line to eat my plate of crow. Although, in a division with Mahomes, Herbert and Carr I just don't see how our offense puts any fear into a defense......I hope I'm wrong

                Comment


                • Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post

                  Is there player testimony on Watson being a poor leader? Bad teammate? Just because he wants out of a cancerous situation you assume that he is the problem? Maybe my extreme want to FINALLY have the QB position resolved is clouding my judgement a little but from all accounts Deshaun is perceived as a genuine good man. I don't see Jay Cutler in him at all.

                  I'm 100% sold that he will be traded. SF, Car and Den are the top favorite teams to land him. You are telling me that you would rather see him go to either team? I can put a guarantee stamp that he will make all teams an instant playoff/superbowl contending team. You don't want that?

                  Let's say he does choose Denver and we give up 3 1st round picks a couple 2nds and a player or two. Looking at our offense right now, where are we lacking that those high picks are needed to improve the roster? My only question is RT which, could be fixed if James decides he actually wants to play football again. Defense will need some upgrades for sure but free agency can keep us floating there. Remember the cap will go back up after this year too.

                  I'm not scared one bit about the cost of Deshauns contract or the loss of picks. Our offense is ready to sky rocket, we just need a Watson or Wilson or Prescott to make it run. It's a Ferrari ready to run but Locks running it like a Prius. I do not want to sit back for the next 10 years and watch the Chiefs and Chargers run away with this division because we were too afraid to be bold enough to make a move that could have changed the trajectory of this franchise.

                  Is Lock going to get better? That's the 35 million dollar question. Let's say he does get better.... slightly....are we still going to be able to unseat the Chiefs? Are we going to be better than the Chargers? Herbert showed more promise in his rookie year than Lock did in his 2nd. I'm not the biggest fan of Collin Cowterd but he hit the nail on the head when he called Lock the 5th best QB in this division. Carr and Marriota are both better than Lock. This is a situation that needs fixed and needs fixed ASAP!! Or we will be cellar dwelling for the next decade....my two cents
                  Preach....like won 4 games Las year broncos won 5. Someone thinks if we add Watson we only win one more game lmaooooooooo.....dub is not worth your time to go back and forward with him lol. No matter how many valid points you make he still gonna have a reply.

                  ANYONE who feels that wins and losses is 100% on a QB...does not even deserve a reply lol.
                  Until we get a TRUE not name "Lock" qb we will miss the playoffs and be average at best! I'm E2DS and I approve this message! "AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW, NOW YA KNOW."

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by HDbroncos02 View Post
                    "A QB that will skip at the first sign of adversity"

                    I wonder who went on to play 16 regular season games after seeing their All-Pro, #1 WR get shipped off for meager picks and a washed-up RB. Oh, and not just lackadaisically playing that season either-- but putting up arguably the best season by a QB last year in terms of stats and efficiency.

                    Bringing up "partying" is laughable, I'm surprised some of you act like you know Watson personally and what he does in his day-to-day life. I wonder what other excuses some of you will try to project on Watson to make him seem like bad person and unfit for leadership. It's telling to see how quick some of you jump on that to justify telling us why we shouldn't pursue an upgrade at QB.

                    Jared Goff just went for two first round picks. Jared Goff. Deshaun Watson is a 3-time Pro Bowler and has been a captain for the Texans since before the front office implosion. Why do we have to compare him and Peyton Manning? Two different people, two different eras. Watson is a superstar and by all accounts, a great person too. I bet y'all would have passed up Watson in the draft too.
                    Preach....that dude will continue to flap his gums and say stupid things that makes no sense. He is very comical.
                    Until we get a TRUE not name "Lock" qb we will miss the playoffs and be average at best! I'm E2DS and I approve this message! "AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW, NOW YA KNOW."

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Capt. Jack View Post
                      I'm not completely convinced that the Denver Broncos offense can be compared to a Ferrari at this point?
                      (Maybe a Fiat)

                      Fix the Offensive line, get a work horse, 100 yd a game, running back, then we would maybe we would be an "entry-level" sports car, but I'm not sure about it being and compared to being Ferrari.
                      No disrespect to anybody, I just want to see our offense be able to score some points consistently.

                      We have a back and the line is fine. RT is the only question mark and if James decides to play he could be the answer. Our skill players are as good as there is in the league....we just need a driver

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post

                        We have a back and the line is fine. RT is the only question mark and if James decides to play he could be the answer. Our skill players are as good as there is in the league....we just need a driver
                        Sounds good!!!

                        Comment


                        • OK gang....say we go another year with Lock.

                          He could progress. Not sure what % that he does improve, but my gut says 50/50.

                          So you look at the stats:

                          (nothing you don't know) Broncos have not made the playoffs since '15, and have had 4 straight sub 500 seasons. Has QB been part of the issue?...Yes. In my opinion, we tried to manufacture a positive outcome but the plan was iffy each time. Regardless of how we look at it, the QB problem began before 2016. Manning was fading, and there was controversy as to whether to play him or Brock Osweiler. Regardless, Oz never became a decent starter, and unfortunately retired in '19. Regardless, the years with Manning were the only good QB run we've had since (please don't say Tebow). Cutler??? That's another roller coaster storyline. FTR, I was a Plummer fan, but whatever.

                          So outside of Elway's brilliant acquisition of Manning, we've had a long dry spell.

                          So....just like Elway decided, why not go after a legit talent, and see how that works out? At a price for sure. But again, I don't have to point out Watson's stats to verify his performance. He's a plus 100+ QB rate player since he started, and he lead his team to the AFC title game. He has it all....the arm, the athleticism, the leadership, and yes, the experience. Why not give up some draft picks (given they are not guaranteed), and maybe a player or two? With a smart Free Agency, and even some draft moves this year (minus picks), we can fill some holes, and move forward. You have to sacrifice to get what you want in this case.

                          And I am hopeful that a deal can be done while FA is still very active. Because I am sure some quality players would want to make Denver their home with Watson at the helm. Just like when Manning came over...there was a buzz in the league and there were multiple talented players who joined us.

                          And as my argument always revolves back to....there is a cost of misfiring on QBs in the draft. You lose those picks on other talented non QBs. Plus you need time to develop, and if these young men do not pan out, it's a load of lost developmental coaching time.

                          As for going after so so vet QBs....not much evidence of success there that I can recall. Plummer was good for a while.

                          So the only other solid approach, for me, is selecting a touted draftee with a high pick. And based on the recent stat, that all 1st round QBs drafted from 09 thru 16 were no longer on their respective draft teams, even that is far from being a safe investment.

                          Then again, I'm not preaching to the unconverted, given about 2/3rds want him according to our internal poll. And my last comment for you to consider....with the talent in The AFC alone, are we a serious SB threat in the foreseeable future with who we have now? Then there's all those other teams in the way. (oh yeah, I would also argue that Tampa is not the world champions if they don't go find a proven QB!)

                          Last edited by CanDB; 02-21-2021, 08:53 AM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post

                            So...ride with Lock? That's the answer? And what if he doesn't get better? We draft top ten again and we are just sitting here on a revolving carousel of crap and looking at changing coaches and another year of the question how to fix the QB spot. If we stay with Lock and he pulls of a Houdini act and we make playoffs I will be the 1st in line to eat my plate of crow. Although, in a division with Mahomes, Herbert and Carr I just don't see how our offense puts any fear into a defense......I hope I'm wrong
                            Well - I am convinced that getting DW would assure us that we would not have the players around him to make the team a well rounded team. If our defense cannot make games against the Chiefs winnable then it does not matter. I am unconvinced that Lock has enough heart and between the ears to become a QB that could go all the way, but that is really something that we cannot judge from the outside. I worry more about his immaturity - showboating in loosing games - than about other aspects.

                            A good to great 1st round QB on a rookie contract coupled with a solid team is by far the best recipe for success, although even with top 10 picks you have about 2/3 chance of getting a QB that does not elevate the team significcantly, but cheap QB contracts has been a constant in winning SBs for the past 25 years.

                            You simply do not get to the SB without a great well rounded team, because some elite QB will expose your cheap corner, cheap D-line man.....

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by CanDB View Post
                              OK gang....say we go another year with Lock.
                              So outside of Elway's brilliant acquisition of Manning, we've had a long dry spell.

                              So....just like Elway decided, why not go after a legit talent, and see how that works out? At a price for sure. But again, I don't have to point out Watson's stats to verify his performance. He's a plus 100+ QB rate player since he started, and he lead his team to the AFC title game. He has it all....the arm, the athleticism, the leadership, and yes, the experience. Why not give up some draft picks (given they are not guaranteed), and maybe a player or two? With a smart Free Agency, and even some draft moves this year (minus picks), we can fill some holes, and move forward. You have to sacrifice to get what you want in this case.
                              Sorry - but stats that have no correlation to victory are empty. DW on a rookie contract was one win/year better than Osweiler sucking up so much cap space that Texans gave up draft picks to get rid of his contact. When Elway went after Manning, then he only had to give up money for a couple of years. Trading a ton of picks and money for a QB that has just produced worse RESULTS in an easier division than the one you want to replace.

                              The assumption that DW was without fault for the Texan's 4-12 season and that we should somehow be an elite team because he comes aboard while decimating the rest of the team is bizzarre. The chance that it clicks for Lock and we find some great supporting players are better but not good.

                              Comment


                              • There is a good chance if Lock doesn't make significant improvement we could be trading some of these "sacred" 1sts for a shot at a Rookie QB in '22 regardless. We are getting back quality players in areas of need, so I would doubt we don't see at least a little improvement.

                                I would trade away those picks for a guaranteed top QB anytime. There is no sense in saving our picks in hopes that not only does Lock make significant improvements but the other selections used would be as impactful as Watson overall.

                                Assuming this trade went through, wouldn't we have the majority of 1st rd positions covered? Bolles, Watson, Sutton, Chubb etc. Why keep the 1sts so we can overdraft a CB and maybe a LB next year? Fangio does incredible at spotting talented secondary players, we dont need to take the first one off the board.

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