Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Drew Lock Thread

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • That elite qb who will expose you is Watson.


    All of the rest of your 'argument' if that is what it is. Is a bunch of crap. Like literally everything you said is dead wrong. Its deadpan people like these stuck in their one thought who will say anything to justify their opinion why I do not post here much.
    So far:
    FA- Melvin Gordon. Brandon Scherff
    1. Kenneth Murray LB; 2. Shenault WR; 2B. Biadazz Center, 3. OT

    Comment


    • Originally posted by CanDB View Post
      OK gang....say we go another year with Lock.

      He could progress. Not sure what % that he does improve, but my gut says 50/50.

      So you look at the stats:

      (nothing you don't know) Broncos have not made the playoffs since '15, and have had 4 straight sub 500 seasons. Has QB been part of the issue?...Yes. In my opinion, we tried to manufacture a positive outcome but the plan was iffy each time. Regardless of how we look at it, the QB problem began before 2016. Manning was fading, and there was controversy as to whether to play him or Brock Osweiler. Regardless, Oz never became a decent starter, and unfortunately retired in '19. Regardless, the years with Manning were the only good QB run we've had since (please don't say Tebow). Cutler??? That's another roller coaster storyline. FTR, I was a Plummer fan, but whatever.

      So outside of Elway's brilliant acquisition of Manning, we've had a long dry spell.

      So....just like Elway decided, why not go after a legit talent, and see how that works out? At a price for sure. But again, I don't have to point out Watson's stats to verify his performance. He's a plus 100+ QB rate player since he started, and he lead his team to the AFC title game. He has it all....the arm, the athleticism, the leadership, and yes, the experience. Why not give up some draft picks (given they are not guaranteed), and maybe a player or two? With a smart Free Agency, and even some draft moves this year (minus picks), we can fill some holes, and move forward. You have to sacrifice to get what you want in this case.

      And I am hopeful that a deal can be done while FA is still very active. Because I am sure some quality players would want to make Denver their home with Watson at the helm. Just like when Manning came over...there was a buzz in the league and there were multiple talented players who joined us.

      And as my argument always revolves back to....there is a cost of misfiring on QBs in the draft. You lose those picks on other talented non QBs. Plus you need time to develop, and if these young men do not pan out, it's a load of lost developmental coaching time.

      As for going after so so vet QBs....not much evidence of success there that I can recall. Plummer was good for a while.

      So the only other solid approach, for me, is selecting a touted draftee with a high pick. And based on the recent stat, that all 1st round QBs drafted from 09 thru 16 were no longer on their respective draft teams, even that is far from being a safe investment.

      Then again, I'm not preaching to the unconverted, given about 2/3rds want him according to our internal poll. And my last comment for you to consider....with the talent in The AFC alone, are we a serious SB threat in the foreseeable future with who we have now? Then there's all those other teams in the way. (oh yeah, I would also argue that Tampa is not the world champions if they don't go find a proven QB!)
      100%....I would love it if Lock produced and just flipped a switch. We won't know that if we don't give him the shot, even though he had this last year. I am also 100% guilty of not wanting to give him that shot if there is a chance we can land Watson.

      Imo, Denver has 2 options. Either all in on the Watson trade or build the defense to stop Mahomes. Seems kinda like a thank you captain obvious statement but it's one or the other. Watson will put the offense on an elite level and the draft/free agency would put our defense in the top 10 or top 5 category. Watson move means we are limited on our defensive structure.

      I really don't like to be a negative nancy but from what Lock showed this year I have zero confidence he will turn into the next Josh Allen. With Lock, imo, our offense will not be good enough to win on A regular bases. Will our defense be elite enough to win with defense on a regular basis? I think I'd rather go the elite offense route. The last couple superbowls have shown us that offense and mediocre defense can win championships

      Comment


      • Originally posted by atwaterandstir View Post
        There is a good chance if Lock doesn't make significant improvement we could be trading some of these "sacred" 1sts for a shot at a Rookie QB in '22 regardless. We are getting back quality players in areas of need, so I would doubt we don't see at least a little improvement.

        I would trade away those picks for a guaranteed top QB anytime. There is no sense in saving our picks in hopes that not only does Lock make significant improvements but the other selections used would be as impactful as Watson overall.

        Assuming this trade went through, wouldn't we have the majority of 1st rd positions covered? Bolles, Watson, Sutton, Chubb etc. Why keep the 1sts so we can overdraft a CB and maybe a LB next year? Fangio does incredible at spotting talented secondary players, we dont need to take the first one off the board.
        100% agreed
        Until we get a TRUE not name "Lock" qb we will miss the playoffs and be average at best! I'm E2DS and I approve this message! "AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW, NOW YA KNOW."

        Comment


        • Originally posted by underrated29 View Post
          That elite qb who will expose you is Watson.


          All of the rest of your 'argument' if that is what it is. Is a bunch of crap. Like literally everything you said is dead wrong. Its deadpan people like these stuck in their one thought who will say anything to justify their opinion why I do not post here much.
          Preach it my boy preach.!!!!Makes 100% sense.
          Until we get a TRUE not name "Lock" qb we will miss the playoffs and be average at best! I'm E2DS and I approve this message! "AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW, NOW YA KNOW."

          Comment


          • Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post

            Sorry - but stats that have no correlation to victory are empty. DW on a rookie contract was one win/year better than Osweiler sucking up so much cap space that Texans gave up draft picks to get rid of his contact. When Elway went after Manning, then he only had to give up money for a couple of years. Trading a ton of picks and money for a QB that has just produced worse RESULTS in an easier division than the one you want to replace.

            The assumption that DW was without fault for the Texan's 4-12 season and that we should somehow be an elite team because he comes aboard while decimating the rest of the team is bizzarre. The chance that it clicks for Lock and we find some great supporting players are better but not good.
            First, stats do matter...

            Here's a young gun with a rate of 104.5 in his raw years. Then this past season, when his team went even further south:

            16 games / pass % of 70.2 / 33 TDs and 7 pics / rate of 112.4 / 444 yards rushing

            Houston had the 2nd most passing yards and 2nd best QB Rate in The NFL.

            In just his second season The Texans went from 4 and 12 to 11 and 5, making the playoffs. In just his third season they went 10 and 6, advanced to the AFC final, and scored 31 points in the loss to the eventual SB champs.

            In '20, not only did Houston make a terrible deal to let their future HoFamer go - Hopkins, but after 4 games changed HCs.

            Oh yeah....Houston was 24th in pass yard D, and last in rushing D. PLUS, they were 2nd worst at rushing yards offensively.

            But hey, the young QB with the really good stats must be to blame.
            Last edited by CanDB; 02-21-2021, 10:34 AM.

            Comment


            • This team has not drafted and developed its own franchise QB EVER

              Yea we technically got Elway when he was a rookie so that kind of counts. Anyone who was a fan and did the insane amount of research required back than to learn about the process Elway went through knows....the Broncos struggled a lot to give Elway an offense to succeed.

              Just want to get that out of the way before I reply to a specific post. So no...I do not have the urgency to draft a QB in the first round. There probably is no bigger position in the NFL that is a miss in the first round than the QB.

              I also think the Broncos are NOT setup good RIGHT NOW to develop a young QB

              Originally posted by CanDB View Post
              OK gang....say we go another year with Lock.

              He could progress. Not sure what % that he does improve, but my gut says 50/50.

              I know Lock is getting hammered on these boards but so do a lot of players who do not deserve it. Players get abuse from fans they do not deserve when a team is losing.

              To me I think it is better than 50/50 Lock improves. When he plays the same kind of game that makes other Qbs successful Lock has success and looks like a QB that can win 10+ games to me. To me Lock has shown he has the skills to be successful.

              The two biggest things I have problems with in Lock are his consistency and his ability to stay healthy.

              Now the knocks I have on Lock's consistency can be attributed to the team and imo can also affect any other QB we bring in when looking at the ultimate goal of getting a Ring. How much are they the team and how much are they Lock....quite frankly no one outside the Broncos can really answer that question accurately. We all stating an opinion that has more to do with us than Lock when we try to figure that part out.

              His injury problems....that is a big question mark. We need a guy who can play 16 games and the playoffs when he is young. Older QBs a team must have plan B but young QBs need to be able to play 16 games+ more often that not imo.

              This team has not drafted and developed its own franchise QB EVER....so my thoughts on selling out the farm and drafting a 1st round QB are not very optimistic. Now if the team does their homework and thinks the franchise guy is there and they are willing to do a Ravens and go all in at getting the coaches and players to develop that QB than I support the Broncos in doing that. I just do not think we meet all those caveats right now.

              I would be good with trading for Watson and I was good at getting Stafford. Would also be good at getting Wilson but I do not think that is a real thing. Any other QB...well we may as well go another year with Lock imo
              Last edited by Hadez; 02-21-2021, 10:30 AM.
              Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

              Comment


              • Originally posted by CanDB View Post

                First, stats do matter...

                Here's a young gun with a rate of 104.5 in his raw years. Then this past season, when his team went even further south:

                16 games / pass % of 70.2 / 33 TDs and 7 pics / rate of 112.4 / 444 yards rushing

                In just his second season The Texans went from 4 and 12 to 11 and 5, making the playoffs. In just his third season they went 10 and 6, advanced to the AFC final, and scored 31 points in the loss to the eventual SB champs.

                In '20, not only did Houston make a terrible deal to let their future HoFamer go - Hopkins, but after 4 games changed HCs.

                Oh yeah....Houston was 24th in pass yard D, and last in rushing D.

                But hey, the young QB with the really good stats must be to blame.
                Everyone judges QBs by Wins and Losses that is true.

                Winning and losing is about lot more than the QB. The Broncos won SB50 with some of the worst QB play I have seen on a winning team.

                Trent Dilfer NEVER played like a SB winning QB .... yet he has a ring.

                How many QBs have won NFL MVP and the Super Bowl in the same year?

                Great qb play does not mean a team wins. Bad QB play does not mean a team losses.

                Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

                Comment


                • Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post

                  Why exactly do you think that Brandon Marshall waited until both he and Cutler was out of the NFL to denigate Cutler totally? Anyone denigating Watson would hurt his own career, but it is his bloody job to get the team playing at high level. DW has had all his stats AFTER Houston was already so far behind that it didn't matter.

                  I see it as an absolutely absurd fantasy that Deshaun Watson - that has just produced a 4-12 season with a team that is pretty equivalent to Denver - will make us a contender for anything other than pulling off one of the worst trades in NFL history. Wilson, Aarod and players that take those amounts of the team Cap has not even made it back to the SB after getting paid. No team with a top 5 paid QB has won the SB in the cap era. The additional salary to DW is more than our O-line and recievers make collectively. It is like putting a Ferrari motor in a Gremlin and thinking you are going to win the Deytona 500. This is a Hershall Walker or Jeff George kind of deal.

                  "that has just produced a 4-12 season"

                  When did one player on a team become responsible for the teams win / loss record?

                  I say it's 40 plus players and a coaching staff that "produces" wins and losses. Example: Super Bowl 50.
                  Utah Bronco Freak

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by jazzbodog View Post


                    "that has just produced a 4-12 season"

                    When did one player on a team become responsible for the teams win / loss record?

                    I say it's 40 plus players and a coaching staff that "produces" wins and losses. Example: Super Bowl 50.
                    I think BAD TEAMs make good offenses look great but great defensive efforts (coaches+players) allows one good team to beat another good team.

                    We all remember the amazing efforts by QBs and other offensive players because it was exciting and stands out...even after the last super bowl people talk about Mahomes much more often than people talk about the defensive performance that stopped him.
                    Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Hadez View Post

                      Everyone judges QBs by Wins and Losses that is true.

                      Winning and losing is about lot more than the QB. The Broncos won SB50 with some of the worst QB play I have seen on a winning team.

                      Trent Dilfer NEVER played like a SB winning QB .... yet he has a ring.

                      How many QBs have won NFL MVP and the Super Bowl in the same year?

                      Great qb play does not mean a team wins. Bad QB play does not mean a team losses.
                      As my stats show....Watson, still in only his 4th year in The NFL, had the 2nd best team QB rate and 2nd most passing yards (which combined with the rate tells me he was actively doing his job)...while having to deal with the 2nd lowest rushing stats, and defensively - the 24th pass yardage, and worst rushing yardage! They often say rushing and D win championships, but that ship had sailed Houston in '20.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by CanDB View Post

                        First, stats do matter...

                        Here's a young gun with a rate of 104.5 in his raw years. Then this past season, when his team went even further south:

                        16 games / pass % of 70.2 / 33 TDs and 7 pics / rate of 112.4 / 444 yards rushing

                        Houston had the 2nd most passing yards and 2nd best QB Rate in The NFL.

                        In just his second season The Texans went from 4 and 12 to 11 and 5, making the playoffs. In just his third season they went 10 and 6, advanced to the AFC final, and scored 31 points in the loss to the eventual SB champs.

                        In '20, not only did Houston make a terrible deal to let their future HoFamer go - Hopkins, but after 4 games changed HCs.

                        Oh yeah....Houston was 24th in pass yard D, and last in rushing D. PLUS, they were 2nd worst at rushing yards offensively.

                        But hey, the young QB with the really good stats must be to blame.
                        Yes - sorry I missed the one year where they went from 9 wins with Osweiler to 4 with Watson, and matched Osweilers results by the 3rd year. BTW they did NOT make it to the AFC final but lost to KC in the divisional round.

                        Isn't it marvelous that the most important player on a poorly performing NFL team shares no blame, and it is all the others that are at fault?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by CanDB View Post

                          As my stats show....Watson, still in only his 4th year in The NFL, had the 2nd best team QB rate and 2nd most passing yards (which combined with the rate tells me he was actively doing his job)...while having to deal with the 2nd lowest rushing stats, and defensively - the 24th pass yardage, and worst rushing yardage! They often say rushing and D win championships, but that ship had sailed Houston in '20.
                          I have changed my mind from your original poll and would be interested in getting Watson under the right deal. He is a good young QB.

                          Problem is as of now the Houston GM has no interest in trading him so all this is just a lot of fun talk during a traditionally slow NFL news time. Yea some NFL talkers will stoke the fire because there is no other NFL news but for all reality purposes Watson is on the trade block only in his mind at the moment.

                          Maybe a team can try and make an eye opening offer to the Texans but if they do not participate in the discussion what is really being gained in trade talks....nothing.
                          Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by jazzbodog View Post


                            "that has just produced a 4-12 season"

                            When did one player on a team become responsible for the teams win / loss record?

                            I say it's 40 plus players and a coaching staff that "produces" wins and losses. Example: Super Bowl 50.
                            If you don't think that DW will be responsible for wins why then do you want to use 25% of the team cap space on him, along with massive amounts of draft capital, or does it only work one way?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post

                              Yes - sorry I missed the one year where they went from 9 wins with Osweiler to 4 with Watson, and matched Osweilers results by the 3rd year. BTW they did NOT make it to the AFC final but lost to KC in the divisional round.

                              Isn't it marvelous that the most important player on a poorly performing NFL team shares no blame, and it is all the others that are at fault?
                              You are correct, I've been quoting the wrong finish in '19. That was the divisional game. Regardless, they won their WC game and scored loads of points in KC.

                              But who ever said he did not share in the team record?? Seriously, we're just trying to make a very strong case for why he is one of the best young QBs in The NFL. How many QBs come into the league and have such positive results?? You can not deny his stats.....and if you tell me that his '20 stats were a significant part of their poor record I'd say you are not being fair. 112.4 rate...while his rushers were lousy, and his D was terrible. But wait, he should run more, and maybe play some D as well.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by CanDB

                                From what I heard, JJ said the team let Watson down, or in similar words. What would he know??
                                Yep you are correct. JJ watt did formally and publicly apologize to watson for letting him down.


                                And he would know a lot less about the team he plays for than a guy on another teams message board. One whom seems to think that for the past 25 years QBs on rookie contracts have been the ones to win the SB. (one of the dumbest things I have heard in a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time)
                                So far:
                                FA- Melvin Gordon. Brandon Scherff
                                1. Kenneth Murray LB; 2. Shenault WR; 2B. Biadazz Center, 3. OT

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X