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  • Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post

    You got things backwards.
    It is not my job to tell you why the statistics that you base your arguments on does not translate to team success. I have not mentioned Watson's sack rate - I have mentioned that team success is the only measure that you are seeking by pursuing someone other than Drew Lock, and that Watson at 35 million per year on top of a lot of premium draft picks is a deal that based on the NFL history is most likely going to be a massive failure.

    Watson for however good he is will never have to same pull on FAs like Mahomes or Brady, and we will have to overcome the financial impact of his contract and of not being able to attract. If we are looking af FAs the base line is; We usually bring in about 7 FAs out of which 2 are expensive. To pay these players over the next 3 years there will be 25-30 million less to share than if they went and played with Brady. FAs with options are not going to do that, and we don't have the draft capital to compensate.
    It's actually not my responsibility to explain the aggregated QB statistic you posted in an attempt to support the one team statistic you base your argument against Watson on. I did it for you anyway, and you still don't seem to understand it.

    http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.net/stats/2011/3/QBR/

    About Real Quarterback Rating. This is an experimental new stat that we've been working on over the past summer. The current passer rating is just that, a measure of passing effectiveness. Real Quarterback Rating includes rushing attempts, rushing yards, rushing TDs, fumbles and sacks to produce a new kind of rating that measures a quarterback’s overall performance with the ball, not just as a passer when he actually releases the ball (which is all that passer rating currently measures).

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    • Originally posted by HDbroncos02 View Post
      DK is going to drag Watson through the mud at all costs, it seems.

      You would think Watson is simultaneously the QB, GM, HC, OC, and DC of the Texans with the way he’s being blamed for 4-12.
      Yep, the guy is a clown. Literally has no idea. I tried to help him. At least make him accountable. Maybe help open his eyes, but head in the sand. Can lead the horse to water, but cant make it drink kind of thing. Oh well, I ignore his posts like I would a child telling me how a bouncy ball and the moon are the same size, because when the kid holds the bouncy ball up in the air and side by side to the moon they look the same. It just is what is it is.

      he did have a pretty good post the other day which caught me off guard. I wonder if it is just his Severe Bias against Watson that clouds his posts or if it is all around? I do not know. Do not post here enough to know for sure.
      So far:
      FA- Melvin Gordon. Brandon Scherff
      1. Kenneth Murray LB; 2. Shenault WR; 2B. Biadazz Center, 3. OT

      Comment


      • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

        The C botching 2 snaps on plays in goal to go situations in different games didn’t have an impact? Coutee fumbling on the 2 yard line didn’t have an impact? The defense failing to get a stop when Watson gave them the lead didn’t have an impact? All of that resulted in losses that you’re putting solely on Watson or I guess putting 88% of that on Watson.

        I don’t have to imagine the team without those picks. The core of the team is still here and the trade likely wouldn’t shake that foundation too much if at all. Watson would still be throwing to Sutton, Jeudy, Fant/AOK, and Hamler, he’d still have Lindsay/Gordon at least for next year, the defense would still be solid as well, at least much better than the garbage Houston put out last season.
        It is nothing but excuses. Players fumble - even on the 2 yard line.
        Receivers drop passes.
        Defenses fail to stop opponents...
        The devotion to an other teams QB and the slew of excuses are really amazing.
        Drew Lock had blown leads, and Flacco had a ton, Keenum had them.... Every QB we have ever had and any other team has ever had have games where they play well and others screw up. Sometimes QBs screw up.
        Such things washes out over the course of a season - Iam sure that some reciever caught a poorly thrown ball this season or broke up somehthing that should have been an Int.

        The key to any long term success in the NFL is that you can win consecutive games over elite competition - otherwise you are at best relevant in regular season.
        AND NO - I am not putting EVERYTHING on Watson, but unlike you and many others that are willing to make up excuses claim that Watson has no part in Texans having one of the worst records in the NFL. The QB is by far the most important player on the field - so no he does not get to have zero blame and 100% credit like you wish to bestove on him.

        Like with Drew Lock, like with Flacco last year.... no player deserves more blame for the Texans failing to function as a team than Deshaun Watson, and the hope that he will be the Broncos guardian angel is hard to take serious!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Spice 1 View Post

          It's actually not my responsibility to explain the aggregated QB statistic you posted in an attempt to support the one team statistic you base your argument against Watson on. I did it for you anyway, and you still don't seem to understand it.

          http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.net/stats/2011/3/QBR/

          We are going in circles - you respond to a post that focusses on the following claim;
          My big question from all of this would be, why are you so lenient on these draft picks but you don’t want the all time leader in completion percentage, the youngest QB to ever complete 70% of his passes, and an all around great QB?

          Ps.
          The CHFF aggregated stat had a life far beyond march 2011, and did not cherry pick stats to fit a narritive, which here seems to be that Watson is a Football God, he has no share in the Texans failing, and will be a massive success elsewhere irrespective of logic and NFL history. We don't need cap space, free agents or elite draftpicks because DW is so great that he will make the Chiefs look like a clown car with one hand tied behind his back.

          Mahomes go home - DW will dominate

          Comment


          • Originally posted by broncolee View Post

            Who’s blaming Watson for 4-12?

            I’ve seen people mention that he shares responsibility for 4-12. Are you suggesting he doesn’t?
            Wins are a team stat for a reason. Of course, he has some infinitesimally-small responsibility for 4-12. He threw for 4,823 yards, 33 TDs, 7 INT, with a 112.4 passer rating— and PFF charted him with the best turnover-worthy play rate in the NFL (Lock, by contrast, was the worst) and 40+ big-time throws (adding 400 yards rushing on the ground).

            It’s Watson’s fault that he didn’t throw for 5k yards, 40+ TDs, and less than 5 INTs to help the Texans win more. So sad, you’d expect more out of a franchise QB. The fact that he didn’t build a 40 point lead in every game to make sure the defense didn’t lose them the game is disappointing.
            2020 Adopt-A-Bronco: #10 JERRY JEUDY
            Previous Adoptees: #25 CHRIS HARRIS, #38 QUINTON CARTER, #43 TJ WARD

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            • Here is the deal if Denver keeps Lock he better perform or else once again we will be sitting at the bottom yet again this year and now with reports that I hearing that Russ wants to go to Las Vegas man Denver could be doomed for like the next 15 years having to face Mahomes 2 times a year now Herbert 2 times a year and now maybe Russ 2 times a Year Yikes either Denver gets D.Watson or Drew better play like Josh Allen 2.0 this year or we are done already before the season even started.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post

                It is nothing but excuses. Players fumble - even on the 2 yard line.
                Receivers drop passes.
                Defenses fail to stop opponents...
                The devotion to an other teams QB and the slew of excuses are really amazing.
                Drew Lock had blown leads, and Flacco had a ton, Keenum had them.... Every QB we have ever had and any other team has ever had have games where they play well and others screw up. Sometimes QBs screw up.
                Such things washes out over the course of a season - Iam sure that some reciever caught a poorly thrown ball this season or broke up somehthing that should have been an Int.

                The key to any long term success in the NFL is that you can win consecutive games over elite competition - otherwise you are at best relevant in regular season.
                AND NO - I am not putting EVERYTHING on Watson, but unlike you and many others that are willing to make up excuses claim that Watson has no part in Texans having one of the worst records in the NFL. The QB is by far the most important player on the field - so no he does not get to have zero blame and 100% credit like you wish to bestove on him.

                Like with Drew Lock, like with Flacco last year.... no player deserves more blame for the Texans failing to function as a team than Deshaun Watson, and the hope that he will be the Broncos guardian angel is hard to take serious!
                Excuses are nothing but reasons that people don’t like. No matter what way you want to describe it, it happened, just like DaeSean Hamilton costing us the Titans game on 2 separate occasions. I asked earlier and you ignored it, but I’ll ask again, what area could Watson have performed better in on the field to win more games? We keep talking about stats related to football but not football itself. I just want to see why you think Watson is a 4-12 QB and not the 24-13 QB he was the prior seasons.

                Comment


                • I just saw Dak wants 41.5 mill a year. I think That makes Watson kind of a bargain.

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                  • Zac Stevens
                    @ZacStevensDNVR
                    ·
                    1h
                    Ian Rapoport told
                    @PatMcAfeeShow
                    that teams have called the Broncos about trading for Drew Lock. “Teams have called about Drew Lock because the potential is there. The Broncos haven’t come close to trading him and I honestly doubt that they will”

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by HDbroncos02 View Post
                      DK is going to drag Watson through the mud at all costs, it seems.

                      You would think Watson is simultaneously the QB, GM, HC, OC, and DC of the Texans with the way he’s being blamed for 4-12.
                      Shouldn't he be kicking extra points and FGs by now???

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

                        I’m not saying he can’t make special throws other QBs can’t, but there’s also a lot of bad things he does that no other QB can get away with. Just because he can run 20 yards behind the LoS and complete a pass doesn’t mean he should. And without the guys around him, I highly doubt he would get away with doing that. He’s a great QB but I think he gets overrated because of the guys around him.
                        Well, all of us Bronco fans should understand that a great QB still needs to have a team around him. And, sure, every great QB is going to do things that no other QB can get away with...because they can. Elway used to throw across his body into the middle of the field. PFM and his audibles. Mahomes throwing off of absolutely ridiculous platforms like the one in the last Superbowl where his body was horizontal and he still threw what should have been a TD. I don't think Mahomes is overrated at all.
                        Adopt-A-Bronco: Kendell Hinton

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                        • Originally posted by listopencil View Post

                          Well, all of us Bronco fans should understand that a great QB still needs to have a team around him. And, sure, every great QB is going to do things that no other QB can get away with...because they can. Elway used to throw across his body into the middle of the field. PFM and his audibles. Mahomes throwing off of absolutely ridiculous platforms like the one in the last Superbowl where his body was horizontal and he still threw what should have been a TD. I don't think Mahomes is overrated at all.
                          Of course, Mahomes is probably the best awkward platform thrower I’ve ever seen, even better than Brett Favre. But he can’t make those types of throws without targets that can get enough separation to allow him to attempt it. He’s great, don’t get me wrong but people hype him up like he’s the best in the league right now bar none. I don’t think that’s the case at all. I’d say he’s probably 3rd, maybe 4th but he IMO has undeniably the most dangerous group of targets that not only compliment Mahomes greatly, but each other as well. There are some other really great WR groups as well, but no one that really threatens a defense quite the way the Chiefs do.

                          What keeps him from being the best IMO though, is really just his really bad habit of turning a regular drop into a 20 yard drop, scramble around until someone gets open, and throw it deep. To me that really isn’t good QB play, that’s just his WRs are that much faster and he’s mobile enough and has the big arm to pull it off. If his targets can’t get separation (because the routes are fairly simple when he does this) then he’ll end up taking a huge sack like he did against Miami right before the playoffs, just to name an example. Then you factor in that he pretty much has the quick game whenever he wants it because defenses fear that speed so much and he just becomes less impressive in my eyes than how the media likes to portray him. Not to mention all the misdirection motion stuff they do with Hardman/Hill to distract defenses from Kelce. It’s just a very QB friendly offense and it dings him a bit to me.

                          Compare his offense to a guy like Brady or Manning where so much of what theirs WRs do are based on the coverage shell and how their defender reacts in addition to any possible help defense that may be able to get over in time and it’s just a vastly different skill set that is simply more impressive to me. Brady and Manning had to process so much information so quickly as well as know how his WR is going to attack his defender based off what he’s seeing from his perspective which is a very different vantage point than the QB. To me, that is so much more difficult than what Mahomes has to do because just the slightest variation can turn a play into a disaster.

                          And to steer this back to Drew Lock, that right there is how I know Lock improved over the season. The defense he saw against the Raiders in week 17 was vastly different and more complex than anything anyone had thrown at him all season and he shredded that. Because even in this offense there are a lot of options and checks where the WRs have to be on the same page. The Raiders would show a Cover 3 look to Lock, but then when the ball was snapped that high safety would rotate and one of the CBs would drop into a deep half while the S that was walked up near the LoS would rotate to the flat where the CB usually plays in a cover 2 defense. Lock did a good job of recognizing it and beating it. That tells me a few things, 1. The Raiders recognized that Drew Lock had progressed far enough that they could no longer just show a look and know he couldn’t beat them consistently enough to win. And 2. The Raiders also didn’t think he was good enough to recognize this inverted Cover 2 they were running as the play unfolded. That’s why I’d be comfortable with Lock next season, however I’d much rather have Watson or even Dak, just not Zach Wilson, but Fields would be fine if he actually does fall that far.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by HDbroncos02 View Post

                            Wins are a team stat for a reason. Of course, he has some infinitesimally-small responsibility for 4-12. He threw for 4,823 yards, 33 TDs, 7 INT, with a 112.4 passer rating— and PFF charted him with the best turnover-worthy play rate in the NFL (Lock, by contrast, was the worst) and 40+ big-time throws (adding 400 yards rushing on the ground).

                            It’s Watson’s fault that he didn’t throw for 5k yards, 40+ TDs, and less than 5 INTs to help the Texans win more. So sad, you’d expect more out of a franchise QB. The fact that he didn’t build a 40 point lead in every game to make sure the defense didn’t lose them the game is disappointing.
                            He’s the quarterback. His responsibility isn’t infinitesimally small.

                            No one is saying he is completely to blame or even mostly to blame.

                            He was on the team. He has to own the record just like everyone else on the team.
                            My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
                            You Mad Bro?
                            Don’t Be A Mean Girl

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                            • Originally posted by listopencil View Post

                              Well, all of us Bronco fans should understand that a great QB still needs to have a team around him. And, sure, every great QB is going to do things that no other QB can get away with...because they can. Elway used to throw across his body into the middle of the field. PFM and his audibles. Mahomes throwing off of absolutely ridiculous platforms like the one in the last Superbowl where his body was horizontal and he still threw what should have been a TD. I don't think Mahomes is overrated at all.
                              It appears you agree 100% with my opinion in this thread, post #4750.
                              Utah Bronco Freak

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                              • Watson wants out :

                                https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ans-wont-talk/

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