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  • Drew Lock doesn’t want out.
    My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
    You Mad Bro?
    Don’t Be A Mean Girl

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    • Originally posted by HDbroncos02 View Post
      DK is going to drag Watson through the mud at all costs, it seems.

      You would think Watson is simultaneously the QB, GM, HC, OC, and DC of the Texans with the way he’s being blamed for 4-12.
      The doesn't know what he talking about. I just ignore him and his post. He clearly has an agenda.
      Until we get a TRUE not name "Lock" qb we will miss the playoffs and be average at best! I'm E2DS and I approve this message! "AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW, NOW YA KNOW."

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      • Originally posted by broncolee View Post

        He’s the quarterback. His responsibility isn’t infinitesimally small.

        No one is saying he is completely to blame or even mostly to blame.

        He was on the team. He has to own the record just like everyone else on the team.
        Right, which is why he should’ve thrown for 60+ TDs and 5000+ yards to ensure that the Texans never lost despite how putrid their defense was. He has to own that. He has to take responsibility for not doing enough to make the team invulnerable.

        I don’t think he disowns his team’s record? He was with the team for all 16 games and was there for each practice, each meeting... of course he’s going to feel more responsible for the team’s lack of success than other players on the team. He’s a captain and leader. Just because we’re using these statistics and contextual evidence to absolve Watson of fault to a degree, doesn’t mean he doesn’t have a role in what happened with the team. He cannot control how the roster imploded around him, but he did his darn best to elevate his play and the offense in the face of that. So, IMO, he has the least responsibility in contributing to the “world of suck” that was the Houston Texans in 2020.
        2020 Adopt-A-Bronco: #10 JERRY JEUDY
        Previous Adoptees: #25 CHRIS HARRIS, #38 QUINTON CARTER, #43 TJ WARD

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        • Originally posted by broncolee View Post

          He’s the quarterback. His responsibility isn’t infinitesimally small.

          No one is saying he is completely to blame or even mostly to blame.

          He was on the team. He has to own the record just like everyone else on the team.
          I agree with your post, so true. What ever player is on the field holds some responsibility for wins and losses...it's a TEAM sport.

          Please see bold above and with all do respect, the word "infinitesimally" is a 10 dollar word for "small ". So you basically said: "small small."

          Infinitesimal: Adjective
          1. Extremely small.
          Last edited by jazzbodog; 02-25-2021, 05:39 PM.
          Utah Bronco Freak

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          • Originally posted by jazzbodog View Post

            I agree with your post, so true. What ever player is on the field holds some responsibility for wins and losses...it's a TEAM sport.

            Please see bold above and with all do respect, the word "infinitesimally" is a 10 dollar word for "small ". So you basically said: "small small."

            Infinitesimal: Adjective
            1. Extremely small.
            It wasn’t my word. See post I quoted.
            My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
            You Mad Bro?
            Don’t Be A Mean Girl

            Comment


            • Originally posted by broncolee View Post

              It wasn’t my word. See post I quoted.
              OOPS! My bad. A thousand apologies brother.
              Utah Bronco Freak

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              • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

                Of course, Mahomes is probably the best awkward platform thrower I’ve ever seen, even better than Brett Favre. But he can’t make those types of throws without targets that can get enough separation to allow him to attempt it. He’s great, don’t get me wrong but people hype him up like he’s the best in the league right now bar none. I don’t think that’s the case at all. I’d say he’s probably 3rd, maybe 4th but he IMO has undeniably the most dangerous group of targets that not only compliment Mahomes greatly, but each other as well. There are some other really great WR groups as well, but no one that really threatens a defense quite the way the Chiefs do.

                What keeps him from being the best IMO though, is really just his really bad habit of turning a regular drop into a 20 yard drop, scramble around until someone gets open, and throw it deep. To me that really isn’t good QB play, that’s just his WRs are that much faster and he’s mobile enough and has the big arm to pull it off. If his targets can’t get separation (because the routes are fairly simple when he does this) then he’ll end up taking a huge sack like he did against Miami right before the playoffs, just to name an example. Then you factor in that he pretty much has the quick game whenever he wants it because defenses fear that speed so much and he just becomes less impressive in my eyes than how the media likes to portray him. Not to mention all the misdirection motion stuff they do with Hardman/Hill to distract defenses from Kelce. It’s just a very QB friendly offense and it dings him a bit to me.

                Compare his offense to a guy like Brady or Manning where so much of what theirs WRs do are based on the coverage shell and how their defender reacts in addition to any possible help defense that may be able to get over in time and it’s just a vastly different skill set that is simply more impressive to me. Brady and Manning had to process so much information so quickly as well as know how his WR is going to attack his defender based off what he’s seeing from his perspective which is a very different vantage point than the QB. To me, that is so much more difficult than what Mahomes has to do because just the slightest variation can turn a play into a disaster.

                And to steer this back to Drew Lock, that right there is how I know Lock improved over the season. The defense he saw against the Raiders in week 17 was vastly different and more complex than anything anyone had thrown at him all season and he shredded that. Because even in this offense there are a lot of options and checks where the WRs have to be on the same page. The Raiders would show a Cover 3 look to Lock, but then when the ball was snapped that high safety would rotate and one of the CBs would drop into a deep half while the S that was walked up near the LoS would rotate to the flat where the CB usually plays in a cover 2 defense. Lock did a good job of recognizing it and beating it. That tells me a few things, 1. The Raiders recognized that Drew Lock had progressed far enough that they could no longer just show a look and know he couldn’t beat them consistently enough to win. And 2. The Raiders also didn’t think he was good enough to recognize this inverted Cover 2 they were running as the play unfolded. That’s why I’d be comfortable with Lock next season, however I’d much rather have Watson or even Dak, just not Zach Wilson, but Fields would be fine if he actually does fall that far.
                Sure. What makes Brady and Manning great is/was their mental game. They didn't win SB's with their arms. They won them with their brains. And that's not what Mahomes does. Also, because his physical ability is so ridiculous, he will do things that would be just plain stupid for other guys to try to do. I'm not saying Mahomes is the best QB in the NFL. I think he's arguably the best young QB in the NFL though. There can't be a big list of guys you'd rather have who are around 25 years old. Back to Lock, I did see him improve over the course of this last season. I think he can do the job, although he will have to work at it. I think he has earned another year with us.
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                • Originally posted by listopencil View Post

                  Sure. What makes Brady and Manning great is/was their mental game. They didn't win SB's with their arms. They won them with their brains. And that's not what Mahomes does. Also, because his physical ability is so ridiculous, he will do things that would be just plain stupid for other guys to try to do. I'm not saying Mahomes is the best QB in the NFL. I think he's arguably the best young QB in the NFL though. There can't be a big list of guys you'd rather have who are around 25 years old. Back to Lock, I did see him improve over the course of this last season. I think he can do the job, although he will have to work at it. I think he has earned another year with us.
                  Lock has just over a full season under him. (18 games). I think maybe a full camp under PS will help. Not that I care to much for PS that much.
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                  • To get back on topic a little bit, when an organization decides to develop a Young quarterback, or draft a Young quarterback, how long should the team wait for the quarterback to develop?
                    I know we all get impatient and disappointed with the development of Drew Lock, but can you continually draft quarterbacks and then toss them out after a year or two?

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                    • IF this organization starts over with a young QB they need to see a full starting season with a full training camp. You really still don't know what you have then, but you can see really good progress, regression, lack of Defense reading, turn-over proneness, and some leadership skills. It probably takes 2-3 to know but Herbert and Burrow look really solid so far. Lamar Jackson and Deshaun Watson were very good by year 2.

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                      • Originally posted by Capt. Jack View Post
                        To get back on topic a little bit, when an organization decides to develop a Young quarterback, or draft a Young quarterback, how long should the team wait for the quarterback to develop?
                        I know we all get impatient and disappointed with the development of Drew Lock, but can you continually draft quarterbacks and then toss them out after a year or two?
                        Not sure if there is or isn't a simple, easy way to find a resource that doesn't require hours of research to see what top quality NFL QB's over the last 40+ years that had sustained success and how long it took them to reach that success once acquired and developed. My guess would be between 2-4 years on average. So many variable's within any given team. QB dynamics....complicated.

                        And I agree with you...QB turnstiles should never be a fixture on any NFL team. I believe the Broncos have proven that in the last few years. However, I believe all NFL teams experience this dilemma at one time or another because of the tuff task it is to find a high quality QB that fits into their system comfortably and allows them to put that ugly turnstile in the back room for several years.
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                        • I think it takes time, it all depends on if you see any bright spots? Or, if it's just all bad.
                          I think Fangio, Lock, Shurmur, get a pass for one more year? If they don't show Marked improvement, we got trouble.

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                          • Originally posted by WYBRONCO View Post
                            IF this organization starts over with a young QB they need to see a full starting season with a full training camp. You really still don't know what you have then, but you can see really good progress, regression, lack of Defense reading, turn-over proneness, and some leadership skills. It probably takes 2-3 to know but Herbert and Burrow look really solid so far. Lamar Jackson and Deshaun Watson were very good by year 2.
                            Agree. Lock deserves another full year before we throw him under the bus. He deserves it. How fortunate are NFL teams that acquire a Lamar Jackson, Deshaun Watson and Mahomes who basically show up and prove quickly they have what it takes for valid success providing they have the proper support / teaching and other high quality players on the team.
                            Last edited by jazzbodog; 02-26-2021, 10:45 AM.
                            Utah Bronco Freak

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                            • Originally posted by jazzbodog View Post

                              Agree. Lock deserves another full before we throw him under the bus. He deserves it. How fortunate are NFL teams that acquire a Lamar Jackson, Deshaun Watson and Mahomes who basically show up and prove quickly they have what it takes for valid success providing they have the proper support / teaching and other high quality players on the team.
                              That being said I hope that if Lock does get that chance Shurmur figures out what he can and can't do well before Week 10 and either focus on those things in PTA's and Training Camp or adapt, like good coordinators do, and call plays to Lock strengths.

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                              • With Drew Lock, I have no doubt that he will improve. If he is the guy for 2021, the all-important question to me will be "how much can he improve?". Seldom (or never) has a QB made the jump from the very bottom-tier of starting QBs in the NFL to the upper echelon. Getting NFL-average play from Lock in 2021 would be much better than what we've had in the last 5 years, but then it begs the question, "Are you okay with average?". In a division with an NFL MVP (Mahomes) and a rising star (Herbert), does "average" enable us to legitimately compete? Does "average" keep Fangio's job and, subsequently, a strong defense to keep us competitive in those games? Maybe Lock proves me wrong and does jump into that elite tier of QBs, then everyone will be happy. Lock had his best year at Mizzou in the only season in which he had offensive system continuity from the prior year. I'm very confident that Lock will be better in Year 2 with Shurmur. It's just those aformentioned questions that I have that makes me skeptical about our long-term prospects as a team with Lock at the helm. That's why I'm so adamant about pursuing a proven star talent like Watson or taking advantage of a very, very gifted draft class of QBs. Settling for mediocrity and holding out hope (and missing out on better talent) on the most important position in all of football is a recipe for failure in a results-driven league.
                                2020 Adopt-A-Bronco: #10 JERRY JEUDY
                                Previous Adoptees: #25 CHRIS HARRIS, #38 QUINTON CARTER, #43 TJ WARD

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