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  • Originally posted by HDbroncos02 View Post
    With Drew Lock, I have no doubt that he will improve. If he is the guy for 2021, the all-important question to me will be "how much can he improve?". Seldom (or never) has a QB made the jump from the very bottom-tier of starting QBs in the NFL to the upper echelon. Getting NFL-average play from Lock in 2021 would be much better than what we've had in the last 5 years, but then it begs the question, "Are you okay with average?". In a division with an NFL MVP (Mahomes) and a rising star (Herbert), does "average" enable us to legitimately compete? Does "average" keep Fangio's job and, subsequently, a strong defense to keep us competitive in those games? Maybe Lock proves me wrong and does jump into that elite tier of QBs, then everyone will be happy. Lock had his best year at Mizzou in the only season in which he had offensive system continuity from the prior year. I'm very confident that Lock will be better in Year 2 with Shurmur. It's just those aformentioned questions that I have that makes me skeptical about our long-term prospects as a team with Lock at the helm. That's why I'm so adamant about pursuing a proven star talent like Watson or taking advantage of a very, very gifted draft class of QBs. Settling for mediocrity and holding out hope (and missing out on better talent) on the most important position in all of football is a recipe for failure in a results-driven league.
    Not as big on the draft for our new QB, because unless we move up, we will likely get no better than the 4th best, if all teams see the QBs the same, and for me that's too high a price for another "maybe". But I am all in on Watson, or even Wilson, because you know what you are getting, and it's GOOD! The price will be high, but we've addressed this many times....you sacrifice for the real deal. And if you are vigilant in FA and the draft, you might be able to fill most of what's gone, definitely in year one, when the draft picks are rookies...and unproven at that.

    And for me, the cost of getting it wrong with Lock would be very high. Another lost year would be hard to swallow, and with no end in sight. Unless we totally tank, we can not be assured that a 2022 draftee will be "the guy"....as if there's any real assurance with a rookie QB.

    Lets dive in deep, and if a deal can't be done for one of the top talents, I would suggest that we look to a later round player that may not pass all the tests of some teams, but has a knack for success. In the meantime, we have to use our higher picks on D, in my opinion, pending what we get done in FA.

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    • Originally posted by HDbroncos02 View Post
      With Drew Lock, I have no doubt that he will improve. If he is the guy for 2021, the all-important question to me will be "how much can he improve?". Seldom (or never) has a QB made the jump from the very bottom-tier of starting QBs in the NFL to the upper echelon. Getting NFL-average play from Lock in 2021 would be much better than what we've had in the last 5 years, but then it begs the question, "Are you okay with average?". In a division with an NFL MVP (Mahomes) and a rising star (Herbert), does "average" enable us to legitimately compete? Does "average" keep Fangio's job and, subsequently, a strong defense to keep us competitive in those games? Maybe Lock proves me wrong and does jump into that elite tier of QBs, then everyone will be happy. Lock had his best year at Mizzou in the only season in which he had offensive system continuity from the prior year. I'm very confident that Lock will be better in Year 2 with Shurmur. It's just those aformentioned questions that I have that makes me skeptical about our long-term prospects as a team with Lock at the helm. That's why I'm so adamant about pursuing a proven star talent like Watson or taking advantage of a very, very gifted draft class of QBs. Settling for mediocrity and holding out hope (and missing out on better talent) on the most important position in all of football is a recipe for failure in a results-driven league.
      I like you believe improvement should come "year 2 ish". I am a very skeptical that it will be enough improvement. Josh Allen is the only QB that even remotely comes to mind that was as low as Lock in rankings and came back to be very good after a 2nd year. I would love to snag a QB, probably not Jones, at #9 because I think they will look better than Lock especially after a 2nd year. But, I am just a fan speculating on fan site.

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      • Originally posted by CanDB View Post

        Not as big on the draft for our new QB, because unless we move up, we will likely get no better than the 4th best, if all teams see the QBs the same, and for me that's too high a price for another "maybe". But I am all in on Watson, or even Wilson, because you know what you are getting, and it's GOOD! The price will be high, but we've addressed this many times....you sacrifice for the real deal. And if you are vigilant in FA and the draft, you might be able to fill most of what's gone, definitely in year one, when the draft picks are rookies...and unproven at that.

        And for me, the cost of getting it wrong with Lock would be very high. Another lost year would be hard to swallow, and with no end in sight. Unless we totally tank, we can not be assured that a 2022 draftee will be "the guy"....as if there's any real assurance with a rookie QB.

        Lets dive in deep, and if a deal can't be done for one of the top talents, I would suggest that we look to a later round player that may not pass all the tests of some teams, but has a knack for success. In the meantime, we have to use our higher picks on D, in my opinion, pending what we get done in FA.
        Actually that is good point. I would like us to move up we are going to take a QB rd 1 it might be a stretch to get Wilson, unless the Jets don't want him or the somehow get Watson. But getting the 3rd best QB is possible.

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        • Originally posted by WYBRONCO View Post

          I like you believe improvement should come "year 2 ish". I am a very skeptical that it will be enough improvement. Josh Allen is the only QB that even remotely comes to mind that was as low as Lock in rankings and came back to be very good after a 2nd year. I would love to snag a QB, probably not Jones, at #9 because I think they will look better than Lock especially after a 2nd year. But, I am just a fan speculating on fan site.
          Well, Lock does work out or at least has worked out with the same people Allen worked with.

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          • Originally posted by WYBRONCO View Post

            That being said I hope that if Lock does get that chance Shurmur figures out what he can and can't do well before Week 10 and either focus on those things in PTA's and Training Camp or adapt, like good coordinators do, and call plays to Lock strengths.
            For sure. It's paramount that coaches recognize a players strengths and utilize them as much as possible and as soon as possible and hopefully by mid season.
            Utah Bronco Freak

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            • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

              Excuses are nothing but reasons that people don’t like. No matter what way you want to describe it, it happened, just like DaeSean Hamilton costing us the Titans game on 2 separate occasions. I asked earlier and you ignored it, but I’ll ask again, what area could Watson have performed better in on the field to win more games? We keep talking about stats related to football but not football itself. I just want to see why you think Watson is a 4-12 QB and not the 24-13 QB he was the prior seasons.
              The reason to focus on the 4-12 is that the main argument from you and others is that you can pay an insanely expensive contract and give up a franchise altering amount of picks for a player that you beleive will turn Broncos into a SB candidate. Why in the world would that happen given that we have a pretty tough division and a defense that as of now is maybe marginally better than Houston? Watson when compared with what Osweiler achieved has played better but achieved roughly the same. I could see us as a periodic WC team with Watson, but if we want to win the division then our defense has to be able to take down Mahomes like they did with Cam in the past, and that will not happen with the price for Watson.

              You are asking what Watson should have done better - setting up the run is one thing, but generally it is less about Watson than the inflated price and inflated claims about what his impact would be. There is no doubt that Watson is very talented, but though the QB is far the most important player on the team, success especially in the playoffs are about the team and often about gritty teams. Manning carried a lot of soft teams to the playoffs and was so good that he essentially taught the defense that they were not that important - he would take care of it. We went 6-0 without Von in 2013. The 2015 success was opposite, as was the 2011.... where the whole team had to and did play complimentary football.

              I don't see us beating KC with their picks and Mahomes vs. us without ours and with Watson. Mahomes is hands down better, and I don't think we can depleate our other units and win the division in shoot outs. I don't want to rely on Watson playing hero ball. Houston was out of most games early - keeping up and managing the offense are major things the QB must do.
              The job of the QB is not X and O but W/L. Yes some things don't work but the great QBs close out games, and I have never seen hugely successful QBs that didn't have powerful relations with their defenses. Word from Bradly Roby was that the locker room was a mess, and that to me is unacceptable and will lead to failed teams.

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              • Said this about Dak when people got on him about Dallas losing games. Football is about the 11 men on offense and the 11 men on defense. Some of those 11 men dictate games more than the others.(QBs, RB, WR, CB, SS/FS, Edge Rush, ILB). Doesn't matter how good a QB is, if the other key positions ain't getting it done, games will be loss regardless. You can be an MVP caliber QB, but still lose because your defense couldn't do their job or your offensive line couldn't protect you enough to develop plays.
                Dak before his injury kept Dallas in games they'd otherwise get blown out in bc their defense was terrible.

                Watson kept the Texans in every game but one(Bears game) where Mitch looked like a star against that terrible defense. Watson still managed to get an above 100 QBR in a blow out. But outside of that game, Texans were in every game they played to the end. He carried that terrible team that had the defense got a couple stops, would have been in the playoffs, those games were that close.

                Again doesn't matter how good the QB is, if the defense can't stop the other team offense, you not winning. Aaron Rodgers is the MVP, got blown out by the Bucs in the first meeting this past season. Does that mean Rodgers suck bc his defense couldn't get it done and his OL struggled with a top shelf Bucs defense?

                Mahomes ran 497 yards before making throws or taking sacks, according to NFL Next Gen Stats, the most in one game since it started keeping track. What that means is the Bucs defense chased him around so much before he could make a play, that he ran almost 500yrds. Why am I mentioned it? Bc I think ppl are seriously underrating or under appreciating how important it is to have a defense that gets stops. It doesn't matter how good the QB is, the defense will decide it. As the saying goes defense wins championships. Watson doesn't have a defense in Houston...but Denver does have one that's competent.
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                • Originally posted by fraguela09 View Post

                  Zac Stevens
                  @ZacStevensDNVR
                  ·
                  1h
                  Ian Rapoport told
                  @PatMcAfeeShow
                  that teams have called the Broncos about trading for Drew Lock. “Teams have called about Drew Lock because the potential is there. The Broncos haven’t come close to trading him and I honestly doubt that they will”
                  I saw that too.. just makes me believe that much more that he'll be dealt

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                  • I'm just glad I no longer have to see Brady or Mahomes win another SB, because they make more than 13.1% of their team's cap from now on.

                    It's funny to me. The Broncos were 32nd in turnovers (18 by Lock in 13 games, 4 by Rypien in 2 games, 2 by Driskel in 2 games), and the Texans were 9th in turnovers (10 by Watson in 16 games). Yet somehow, the Broncos are as trash as the Texans are, because they only won 1 more game than the Texans did.

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                    • Yeah as really someone that really likes to develop QB's there. Needs to really develop and groom him to being elite meaning Drew Lock.
                      Ready for October Falls

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                      • Looking at a lot of recent posts (and posts that have been removed) I am starting to think this thread belongs in a closed part of these forums.
                        Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by WYBRONCO View Post

                          I like you believe improvement should come "year 2 ish". I am a very skeptical that it will be enough improvement. Josh Allen is the only QB that even remotely comes to mind that was as low as Lock in rankings and came back to be very good after a 2nd year. I would love to snag a QB, probably not Jones, at #9 because I think they will look better than Lock especially after a 2nd year. But, I am just a fan speculating on fan site.
                          Lock has 18 games played. I am sure I can find many QBs who had similarly bad stats their first 16 games and then went on to have better times in their career. In PMs first 16 games he had 28 Ints, a QB rating of 71.2 .....how did his career go? Ok now we know 2 QBs. I can find more but why spend time doing that? At this point people who want Lock gone want him gone and nothing that will be said in an internet forum conversation will change anyone's mind.

                          The Broncos have not had much success in developing young QBs recent DECADES and I do not think drafting another 1st round QB will change this. We do not have the support staff ....if I was a rookie qb drafted by the Broncos I would treat them how Eli treated the Chargers. How Watson is treating the Texans.
                          Last edited by Hadez; 02-28-2021, 12:05 AM.
                          Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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                          • Originally posted by Hadez View Post
                            Looking at a lot of recent posts (and posts that have been removed) I am starting to think this thread belongs in a closed part of these forums.
                            Yeah.


                            Thread cleaned for like the fifth time. It's really close to getting closed.
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                            • Originally posted by Peanut View Post

                              Yeah.


                              Thread cleaned for like the fifth time. It's really close to getting closed.
                              Thank you for your efforts. Thanks to all the mods for the work you all do. I know it has been difficult lately.

                              Sorry have not seen in the 4k posts but what is your opinion on Lock if I may put you on the spot (and do my best to try and get things back on topic)
                              Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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                              • Originally posted by Hadez View Post

                                Thank you for your efforts. Thanks to all the mods for the work you all do. I know it has been difficult lately.

                                Sorry have not seen in the 4k posts but what is your opinion on Lock if I may put you on the spot (and do my best to try and get things back on topic)
                                Thanks for the kind words.

                                Lock? I back him because he's our QB. I see potential, but there's so much that needs work. Would one more year make a difference? A better o-line would help. I would not be sad if he got traded. Just get tired of the QB shuffle.
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