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  • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

    The thing is with Lock, he really isn’t that far off from being a really good QB. Probably about 95% of everything bad that he does all stems from his footwork. ....
    I edited your quote only for brevity.

    I'm having a difficult time convincing myself his footwork is the root of most of his problems. I wonder if it isn't as much footwork as it is the command center between his ears that's the problem. Whether it's his ability to absorb during his practice/training, the ability to transfer that to a game, or the ability to process quickly during a play, that often starts between the ears. I haven't heard much about him being intelligent (or not intelligent), so I can't say. I do know that he's been pretty slow on the uptake when it comes to correcting his mistakes. He's something like 17-ish games in and he was still looking bad late in the season in some games (LAC was one).

    When he does throw with his feet in the wrong position, it's often a throw of desperation. He's trying to force a play, and that's a sign his brain is making mistakes, confused, and/or falling into bad habits. When things break down, pretty much all of us do what we've learned instead of do what's right. Can he correct that? We haven't seen it, yet. Let's not forget that he was passed up by every team in that first round as a QB to be that franchise QB. He was at best a project.

    His rookie season "success" likely has other contributors than simply what he's asked to do. A big part is that defenses didn't have film on him. We often see rookie QBs have success in their first few games until the league characterizes their play and can defend against it.

    Last, I don't believe he has the arm talent to be able to succeed with poor footwork. He has arm strength, but that isn't the same as arm talent.

    Looks like he'll at least get the off-season and pre-season to show progress. Paton isn't overflowing with confidence in handing him the keys to the kingdom. He's basically said he'll have to earn it. I only hope there's an option the Broncos have in that QB room in case he can't put it together.

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    • I'm starting to wonder if Locks thumb injury is something far more seriously effecting him. In college he was lauded for his ball placement and touch, in the NFL it seems to be his biggest struggle.

      I have started to change my outlook on Lock- I would love to have a better option, but at the same time Lock is playing under a very manageable contract for two more seasons. I think the best thing we could do for our team is draft Lance at 9 (if available) and see where we are in 2 years. If Locks thumb has been an issue I think we will see major improvement in his accuracy with more rehab. If we have seen the best from Lock, then I am great with him as a backup.

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      • Originally posted by atwaterandstir View Post
        I'm starting to wonder if Locks thumb injury is something far more seriously effecting him. In college he was lauded for his ball placement and touch, in the NFL it seems to be his biggest struggle.

        I have started to change my outlook on Lock- I would love to have a better option, but at the same time Lock is playing under a very manageable contract for two more seasons. I think the best thing we could do for our team is draft Lance at 9 (if available) and see where we are in 2 years. If Locks thumb has been an issue I think we will see major improvement in his accuracy with more rehab. If we have seen the best from Lock, then I am great with him as a backup.
        Just me, but if the Broncos choose to take a QB early (as in your suggestion of Lance) that they trade Lock.

        Prefer they not have two developmental QBs and hoping one works out. Prefer they choose one (IMO still Lock) and add a vet / mentor type QB to teach them the nuances of being a professional.

        QB is one of those positions that is unique and needs a support system and some hand holding for most young QBs. Broncos keep filling the room with young developmental QBs and expect them to learn on the job. Pick a QB and give him a professional to help mentor and challenge him.

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        • Originally posted by atwaterandstir View Post
          I'm starting to wonder if Locks thumb injury is something far more seriously effecting him. In college he was lauded for his ball placement and touch, in the NFL it seems to be his biggest struggle.

          I have started to change my outlook on Lock- I would love to have a better option, but at the same time Lock is playing under a very manageable contract for two more seasons. I think the best thing we could do for our team is draft Lance at 9 (if available) and see where we are in 2 years. If Locks thumb has been an issue I think we will see major improvement in his accuracy with more rehab. If we have seen the best from Lock, then I am great with him as a backup.
          Damn, I forgot about his injury. You might have something there. I could imagine many NFL players wouldn't say anything about it for fear of being labeled injury prone. Well, except Ju'wuan James....he'd just take another year off....LOL!

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          • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

            I disagree that he’s shown no significant improvement. He has, but the improvements he’s made doesn’t always show up in the stat sheet. Week 17 was a culmination of everything he’s learned over the season. His footwork was much better as well as how he read the defense. In our earlier matchup against the Raiders we ran 2 drags into each other to pick a DB, one of the WRs came open but Lock checked it down to the RB for a minimal game. That same play came in that second game and this time he hits the WR for a 1st down. That’s him learning from a mistake and showing growth. And even if you don’t think he showed improvement, the Raiders definitely thought he did. They showed a lot of single high safety looks pre snap which tells the QB to expect Cover 1 or Cover 3, but the Raiders would turn that presnap look into an inverted cover 2 post snap something Lock shouldn’t have been expecting. And even then, Lock still hung in there and had arguably his best game of the season. Teams did not do that to Lock prior to that game, what he saw presnap was what he got postsnap. His improvement with his eyes showed up in that Carolina game in a big way and that was really when teams figured out they couldn’t just give him a single high safety look and expect to beat him.

            In short, I wouldn’t focus so much on Lock’s stats to try and find growth. How defenses played him over the course of the season, and in particular the last month or so shows that at least those Defensive Coordinators thought he was improving. I think the Chargers were the only team that didn’t change up much defensively, and had Jeudy not dropped a crazy amount of passes that likely would’ve been a huge game for Lock despite the INTs and probably would’ve been a win.
            Here is a suitable reply to post #4861 above. My bold.
            Last edited by samparnell; 03-07-2021, 09:05 AM. Reason: clarify
            "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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            • Originally posted by samparnell View Post

              In SB XLV, Ben Roethlisberger was pick sixed on an inverted Cover 2. At Atlanta in 2012, PM was picked three times one of which was off of Cover 2 Robber. In SB XLIV, PM was picked off of a 3-3-5 look. Manning also had trouble with Zone Blitz. He was victimized once on a ZB by Rob Ninkovich in game 9 of 2014. Point is, if those kinds of coverages, seldom or never seen at the college level, can fool guys like Manning and Roethlisberger, they can sure fool a two year player who has had a different OC each of the last six years.

              Drew Lock has physical talent that can't be coached and mental talent that can. Football players can get better, worse or stay the same. No one outside of Dove Valley has a valid clue exactly what their take on "Buzz" is. Wonder what is up with inquiries from other teams on trading for him? Guess they think they see something. What the Broncos do in free agency, trades and the Draft will be indicative of what they think of Drew. IMO they need a veteran QB to bring some perspective to the QB room and the practice field, plus being available on game day.
              Some additional support for beastlyskronk's POV.
              "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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              • Originally posted by CanDB View Post

                Yeah....I went for a special car, but you are so right, based on points scored, maybe we're talking a Chevy Spark....
                Anything but a low end Kia. Wait, I don't know much about a lot of cars....is a Chevy Spark worse than a low end Kia?
                Utah Bronco Freak

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                • Originally posted by jazzbodog View Post

                  Anything but a low end Kia. Wait, I don't know much about a lot of cars....is a Chevy Spark worse than a low end Kia?
                  I don't know...but they listed it as a cheap car. Sorry if I offend anyone. It runs and it's cheap...you win!!!

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                  • while we are holding Drew Lock"s feet to the fire I wish we had 325 pages of how Jerry Jeudy drops a plenty of passes.i want Drew to better way better but, we have heard time and time again how a QB needs other folks to do their jobs. see a first round pick drop a pass one right after another.what is the take on that.that stupid qb Lock if he hit the open receiver we would win.yes Lock has made some bad plays, but he ain't the only one.Off.line hasn't done much to help.same with our head coach.didn't like Scangarello so he has Elway fire him.don't know if that helped.you know the one play that Jeudy made that stands out to me.that td pass and run against the Raiders week 17.
                    I miss real Bronco football

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                    • Drew has done some pretty good stuff so far, and he's had a couple of really good games.

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                      • Originally posted by Siberian Bronco View Post
                        while we are holding Drew Lock"s feet to the fire I wish we had 325 pages of how Jerry Jeudy drops a plenty of passes.i want Drew to better way better but, we have heard time and time again how a QB needs other folks to do their jobs. see a first round pick drop a pass one right after another.what is the take on that.that stupid qb Lock if he hit the open receiver we would win.yes Lock has made some bad plays, but he ain't the only one.Off.line hasn't done much to help.same with our head coach.didn't like Scangarello so he has Elway fire him.don't know if that helped.you know the one play that Jeudy made that stands out to me.that td pass and run against the Raiders week 17.
                        It is very hard for a young qb to develop in that situation
                        Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Hadez View Post

                          It is very hard for a young qb to develop in that situation
                          Lot of youth on Denver's O last year: Drew Lock (835); Lloyd Cushenberry (1076); Dalton "Route 66" Risner (999); Tyrie Cleveland (72); K.J. Hamler (521); Jerry Jeudy (806); Netane Muti (122); Albert Okwuegbunam (86); Brett Rypien (83); Calvin Anderson (132); Andrew Beck (66); Noah Fant (733); Austin Schlottmann (269); Diontae Spencer (65). Fourteen guys with two years' experience, or less. Six of those were rookie draftees.
                          Last edited by samparnell; 03-07-2021, 04:05 PM.
                          "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by samparnell View Post

                            Here is a suitable reply to post #4861 above. My bold.
                            That's essentially a data point. Average play over the entire season gives a better picture of what Lock's done. He's second only to Nick Mullens in the highest interception percentage in the league. Completion percentage he's the worst in the league. That says a lot more about his processing on the field than one situation.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by DiveInstructor View Post

                              That's essentially a data point. Average play over the entire season gives a better picture of what Lock's done. He's second only to Nick Mullens in the highest interception percentage in the league. Completion percentage he's the worst in the league. That says a lot more about his processing on the field than one situation.
                              You missed the point. Stats versus what happens on the field play-by-play; pre and post-snap defensive alignment and reads. His post stated and enumerated improvements not reflected in stats/data points. It wasn't the whole season to which he referred, because that won't tell one about improvement.
                              "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by samparnell View Post

                                Lot of youth on Denver's O last year: Drew Lock (835); Lloyd Cushenberry (1076); Dalton "Route 66" Risner (999); Tyrie Cleveland (72); K.J. Hamler (521); Jerry Jeudy (806); Netane Muti (122); Albert Okwuegbunam (86); Brett Rypien (83); Calvin Anderson (132); Andrew Beck (66); Noah Fant (733); Austin Schlottmann (269); Diontae Spencer (65). Fourteen guys with two years' experience, or less. Six of those were rookie draftees.
                                I am probably crazy but I think Rypien was a far better backup than Driskel. Not just in how effective he played (obvious) but also probably what he added to Lock in the QB room (not as obvious)
                                Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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