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  • Originally posted by Bronco51 View Post

    What's growth? He was the worst ranked QB last season. So, is 25th growth we can live with? Serious question.
    Nitpicking... but he wasn’t the worst ranked QB last season. Depending on what rating you use he still had a few guys “worse” then him.

    Your question is a good one though. What “ranking” is good enough? For you just as much as anyone else. Will you only be satisfied if he is top 10 next year? Top 15?

    Despite his struggles, I’m still interested to see what some consistent coaching, practice and healthy teammates will do fine r his ranking.

    Looking through the QB stats last season it is not inconceivable that he can improve to top 20 or higher. Considering how poorly not only he but the entire offense played several games I can see some significant improvement next season. Not make me forget about Rodgers, Mahommes or Allen improvement, but winning football. Big question remains... can he? He needs to prove it.

    For example:
    Stafford ranked approx 15th. 16 games/ 4000yds/ 64% completion/ 26 TD/ 10Int/ 255 ypg.
    Lock ranked approx 30th. 13 games/ 2900 yds / 57%compl. 16/ 15/. 225 ypg
    Last edited by FR Tim; 03-11-2021, 09:43 PM.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by WYBRONCO View Post

      Elway was better than Lock by this point in his career, but seriously Elway is a 1st ballot HOF QB, that isn't that unexpected.
      I am not sure that I agree with that. Even in Elway's 3rd season, he threw more interceptions than touchdowns. The game was played differently then, but Marino was leaps and bounds better than Elway at that point in his career. For that matter, Tony Eason, Jim Kelly, and Ken O'Brien were all playing better than Elway during his first 2 years. Elway did outplay Todd Blackledge, though.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by CheyennePress View Post

        I am not sure that I agree with that. Even in Elway's 3rd season, he threw more interceptions than touchdowns. The game was played differently then, but Marino was leaps and bounds better than Elway at that point in his career. For that matter, Tony Eason, Jim Kelly, and Ken O'Brien were all playing better than Elway during his first 2 years. Elway did outplay Todd Blackledge, though.
        Elway went 12-2 in his second season and 11-5 in his third. Yes, he threw 23 INTs in his third season, but it’s clear by the teams record that his INTs didn’t cost his teams many games. Lock on the other hand is throwing costly INTs that hurt the team bad. Elway was far and a way a better QB than Lock comparing their early careers.

        It’s incredibly difficult to compare stats of QBs then and QBs now. Elway was a young QB in the 80s when a QB rating of 100 was nearly unheard of. Lock is playing in an NFL when the top 10 QBs in a season all have QB ratings over 100.

        If Lock is to become a good QB, he cannot turn the ball over as much as he did last year. QBs have to be efficient for a team to stay competitive​​​​​​. Elway was absolutely a good QB despite throwing 23 INTs in a season. QBs in the 80s could get away with being a gunslinger back then. Especially if they had the talent of John Elway. Teams today have gotten too good at capitalizing on a gunslinger QB that turns the ball over too much. Lock cannot continue to play like he has and keep a starting job.

        And he certainly isn’t anywhere near the level of Elway’s play.
        Last edited by Megalodon30; 03-12-2021, 06:47 AM.
        Eternal Broncos Optimist

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        • If Lock can get his footwork fixed it will help him tremendously. It will help his timing . He's had examples of being able to read pre and post snap . He has however missed some reads pre - post snap but thats going to happen . I think he has it up stairs . His issue is footwork, and if he can clean that up it will help timing .

          Comment


          • If Lock can get his footwork fixed it will help him tremendously. It will help his timing . He's had examples of being able to read pre and post snap . He has however missed some reads pre - post snap but thats going to happen . I think he has it up stairs . His issue is footwork, and if he can clean that up it will help timing .

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Bronco51 View Post

              What's growth? He was the worst ranked QB last season. So, is 25th growth we can live with? Serious question.
              whats growth? really are you new to football? lets see growth of a near rookie qb, that in his first year missed most of camp, preseason, team practice up until week 11, then in his second year had no ota's no team contact, no coaches contact, a new OC, another new Offensive scheme to learn, no preseason...and then you lose your starting RT who opted out, lost your probowl #1 Wr in week two, playing on the youngest offense in the league, starting a 2020 third string Wo as the #1, two rookie wrs, a rookie center...
              keeping in mind the dude has now only really played 17 full games...your acting like the guy has played 3 seasons worth of games

              let the dude grow, let him for the first time in years have the same OC and scheme two years in a row...even if we all think schumer sucked...consistency is key here
              let him have a true offseason, working with his offense, as they all grow together, again the youngest offense in the league last year
              LT 4th yr
              LG 2nd
              ct...rook
              rg...5th
              rt? varied
              wr#1 3rd
              WR2 rook
              WR#3 rook
              TE 2nd
              Te2 rook
              wr#4 3rd
              wr#5 rook
              and QB 2nd

              there was a hell of a lot of youth on this offense led by a a 2nd year qb with 5 games under his belt going into the season

              sigpic
              when do native Americans become human and not mascots

              Comment


              • Really he only had Sutton for like 2 drives because Sutton was out week 1 with a dislocated shoulder.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by arapaho View Post

                  whats growth? really are you new to football? lets see growth of a near rookie qb, that in his first year missed most of camp, preseason, team practice up until week 11, then in his second year had no ota's no team contact, no coaches contact, a new OC, another new Offensive scheme to learn, no preseason...and then you lose your starting RT who opted out, lost your probowl #1 Wr in week two, playing on the youngest offense in the league, starting a 2020 third string Wo as the #1, two rookie wrs, a rookie center...
                  keeping in mind the dude has now only really played 17 full games...your acting like the guy has played 3 seasons worth of games

                  let the dude grow, let him for the first time in years have the same OC and scheme two years in a row...even if we all think schumer sucked...consistency is key here
                  let him have a true offseason, working with his offense, as they all grow together, again the youngest offense in the league last year
                  LT 4th yr
                  LG 2nd
                  ct...rook
                  rg...5th
                  rt? varied
                  wr#1 3rd
                  WR2 rook
                  WR#3 rook
                  TE 2nd
                  Te2 rook
                  wr#4 3rd
                  wr#5 rook
                  and QB 2nd

                  there was a hell of a lot of youth on this offense led by a a 2nd year qb with 5 games under his belt going into the season
                  You didn’t answer though. You gave a lot of reasons why he was at the bottom. Is going from awful to mediocre good enough? Should there be no expectation of him being good enough to overcome some of those barriers?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Bronco51 View Post

                    You didn’t answer though. You gave a lot of reasons why he was at the bottom. Is going from awful to mediocre good enough? Should there be no expectation of him being good enough to overcome some of those barriers?

                    let's flip the script . What growth would it take for you to think Lock that will be the guy?

                    Imo Drew doesn't have to be a top 5 Qb this coming season to prove it . I'd like to see his footwork improve, which will help with his timing which helps accuracy. I want to see him take care of the fb. Force things less unless its a last ditch effort to win a game. I want to see him put the team in position to win games , not cost us games . I do believe in Lock . He has it all , he just needs to put it together .

                    If he comes out this year and looks the same , making the same rookie mistakes then its a wrap for him imo.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by orange crush75 View Post


                      let's flip the script . What growth would it take for you to think Lock that will be the guy?

                      Imo Drew doesn't have to be a top 5 Qb this coming season to prove it . I'd like to see his footwork improve, which will help with his timing which helps accuracy. I want to see him take care of the fb. Force things less unless its a last ditch effort to win a game. I want to see him put the team in position to win games , not cost us games . I do believe in Lock . He has it all , he just needs to put it together .

                      If he comes out this year and looks the same , making the same rookie mistakes then its a wrap for him imo.
                      We’re in the same boat. I know people hate the term, but I would like him to be more of a ‘game manager’. Meaning less turnovers and higher completion rate. Hopefully he can grow into that as they coach him on when to take the chances.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post

                        Can your strawman come out to play?
                        It has nothing to do with Lock having to be a HOF level QB, but if he does not have the right mentality and will to win at all and any cost, he is not going to be a success at the level we expect.
                        Right. You said that Lock needs to be like John Elway (HoF QB) and Tom Brady (HoF QB) and then added PFM (HoF QB). It's not a strawman. You're just confused.
                        Adopt-A-Bronco: Kendell Hinton

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by arapaho View Post

                          whats growth? really are you new to football? lets see growth of a near rookie qb, that in his first year missed most of camp, preseason, team practice up until week 11, then in his second year had no ota's no team contact, no coaches contact, a new OC, another new Offensive scheme to learn, no preseason...and then you lose your starting RT who opted out, lost your probowl #1 Wr in week two, playing on the youngest offense in the league, starting a 2020 third string Wo as the #1, two rookie wrs, a rookie center...
                          keeping in mind the dude has now only really played 17 full games...your acting like the guy has played 3 seasons worth of games

                          let the dude grow, let him for the first time in years have the same OC and scheme two years in a row...even if we all think schumer sucked...consistency is key here
                          let him have a true offseason, working with his offense, as they all grow together, again the youngest offense in the league last year
                          LT 4th yr
                          LG 2nd
                          ct...rook
                          rg...5th
                          rt? varied
                          wr#1 3rd
                          WR2 rook
                          WR#3 rook
                          TE 2nd
                          Te2 rook
                          wr#4 3rd
                          wr#5 rook
                          and QB 2nd

                          there was a hell of a lot of youth on this offense led by a a 2nd year qb with 5 games under his belt going into the season
                          Good read.

                          Drew's OC by year

                          2015 Josh Henson
                          2016 Josh Heupel
                          2017 Josh Heupel (SEC TD record: 43)
                          2018 Derek Dooley
                          2019 Rich Scangarello
                          2020 Pat Shurmur

                          I played three back to back games on Madden using different offensive schemes
                          and it proved more difficult than anticipated.

                          Remarkably, Lock positioned himself as a potential first-round QB given the constant change at OC.

                          I'm expecting an improvement, given it will be Lock/Shurmur's second year together.
                          That alone should help some.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by mozzerpete View Post

                            Good read.

                            Drew's OC by year

                            2015 Josh Henson
                            2016 Josh Heupel
                            2017 Josh Heupel (SEC TD record: 43)
                            2018 Derek Dooley
                            2019 Rich Scangarello
                            2020 Pat Shurmur

                            I played three back to back games on Madden using different offensive schemes
                            and it proved more difficult than anticipated.

                            Remarkably, Lock positioned himself as a potential first-round QB given the constant change at OC.

                            I'm expecting an improvement, given it will be Lock/Shurmur's second year together.
                            That alone should help some.
                            Shurmurs a proven loser with schemes that don't work. If you're expecting anything short of pure disaster for lock this year you'll be fully let down.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by rst08tierney View Post

                              Shurmurs a proven loser with schemes that don't work. If you're expecting anything short of pure disaster for lock this year you'll be fully let down.
                              According to Tim Jenkins 80% of the NFL offences are the exact same schemes. The terminology, formations/motions and what the emphasize will be different, but outside of Baltimore and Arizona the offences all feature the same play schemes. And funny enough, the most popular "scheme" in the NFL today is one that Broncos fans were arguing was obsolete 5 years ago. Now everyone wants Shanahan's outside zone scheme.

                              At some point fans need to realize that schemes aren't the problem. You can have the greatest schemes ever and they look poor if the players don't execute them. Meanwhile you can have the most vanilla schemes ever but they look all-world if the players execute at a high level. Which leads me to pointing out, the Peyton Manning offense was an extremely vanilla offense with minimal formations (about 5 base formations) and really not that many individual plays. What made it great was attention to detail, and being extremely polished in that vanilla scheme.

                              My biggest complaint about Shurmur, and what I think he could do to greatly improve the offense in 2021 has nothing to do with schemes, it would simply be to dial back what they do and get maximum reps at those fewer things. Build a base that they become experts at and then start building around that.

                              Comment


                              • Here's a look at the Manning/Moore playbook, and how extremely simple it was. It wasn't about beating the opposition with schemes, it was about beating them with execution. That's why I think the Broncos O will be better this year, with so many key players returning to the same offense there's going to be much less emphasis on learning, and a much much bigger emphasis on executing those plays.

                                https://web.archive.org/web/20120524...-colts-offense

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