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  • Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post

    I respectfully disagree....

    I think today's football is designed and tailor made for immediate success. The rules of the game today allow for high efficiency. The rules of the game ridiculously help offence and hinder defense. And, Money has a huge part to play with today's football. Terry Bradshaw lived in a time where there was no free agency. He and many other old stars were fortunate to have teams that drafted well.

    This season to me is going to be like John elway and Tommy Maddox. I hope Denver drafts a first round quarterback this year and drew lock turns into our John elway I really do. That means we have huge draft assets with quarterbacks. We can trade one of them for a huge draft Hall and use that to continue to build. With a down quarterback year next year's draft, Having that quarterback in our back pocket is literally a gold investment
    I think in some ways it’s designed for success. The rules are lenient towards the offense. But the lack of practice time really steepens that learning curve for young players especially for the guys who are considered projects. Success also depends heavily on the guys around you especially for a young QB. And I don’t mean that as in just necessarily the talent level either. It’s a lot easier for a young QB to come into an offense with a lot of veterans who have been with the team and played in the same scheme for multiple seasons than it is for a guy like Lock where the longest tenured offensive Bronco is Garrett Bolles. I don’t think there was another player on the offense that had been with the team more than 2 seasons. So having a project QB in a situation where everyone around him has only been on the team for 1-2 seasons only exacerbates the lack of practice reps these guys are getting compared to past generations.

    It’s hard to improve without playing or only playing half speed.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post

      I respectfully disagree....

      I think today's football is designed and tailor made for immediate success. The rules of the game today allow for high efficiency. The rules of the game ridiculously help offence and hinder defense. And, Money has a huge part to play with today's football. Terry Bradshaw lived in a time where there was no free agency. He and many other old stars were fortunate to have teams that drafted well.

      This season to me is going to be like John elway and Tommy Maddox. I hope Denver drafts a first round quarterback this year and drew lock turns into our John elway I really do. That means we have huge draft assets with quarterbacks. We can trade one of them for a huge draft Hall and use that to continue to build. With a down quarterback year next year's draft, Having that quarterback in our back pocket is literally a gold investment
      So you disagree with me that the current game favours Offence, including QBs?

      So you disagree with me that The Steelers built a strong team around Bradshaw?

      Hmmmm



      Comment


      • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

        I think in some ways it’s designed for success. The rules are lenient towards the offense. But the lack of practice time really steepens that learning curve for young players especially for the guys who are considered projects. Success also depends heavily on the guys around you especially for a young QB. And I don’t mean that as in just necessarily the talent level either. It’s a lot easier for a young QB to come into an offense with a lot of veterans who have been with the team and played in the same scheme for multiple seasons than it is for a guy like Lock where the longest tenured offensive Bronco is Garrett Bolles. I don’t think there was another player on the offense that had been with the team more than 2 seasons. So having a project QB in a situation where everyone around him has only been on the team for 1-2 seasons only exacerbates the lack of practice reps these guys are getting compared to past generations.

        It’s hard to improve without playing or only playing half speed.

        exactly right . What baffles me is people want Lance , when he's been deemed a project. maybe thats why I'm not a GM in the NFL . I can't use a 1st round pick on a project, let alone a top 10 pick at that .

        I see a real problem with giving kids 2 seasons to put up stellar numbers or else. You'll be constantly changing Qbs. You have to have some consistency program wise and Lock hasn't had that. We have a very young team. Sometimes it takes time for things to gel.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post

          I respectfully disagree....

          I think today's football is designed and tailor made for immediate success. The rules of the game today allow for high efficiency. The rules of the game ridiculously help offence and hinder defense. And, Money has a huge part to play with today's football. Terry Bradshaw lived in a time where there was no free agency. He and many other old stars were fortunate to have teams that drafted well.

          This season to me is going to be like John elway and Tommy Maddox. I hope Denver drafts a first round quarterback this year and drew lock turns into our John elway I really do. That means we have huge draft assets with quarterbacks. We can trade one of them for a huge draft Hall and use that to continue to build. With a down quarterback year next year's draft, Having that quarterback in our back pocket is literally a gold investment
          How exactly, name 5 aspects that today's football is designed and tailor made for immediate success. Is one of them because of the HOF running backs disappearing because many QBs are now good QBs and good rushers?

          The 2020 season had 15 teams with losing records and 3 teams at 8-8
          The 1995 season had 13 teams with losing records and 4 teams at 8-8
          The 1980 season had 12 teams with losing records and 3 teams at 8-8

          Fairly equal over a 40 year period. So where is the modern day success building of NFL teams that differs from 40 years ago?

          Utah Bronco Freak

          Comment


          • I am searching for the Steelers' bench press prowess back in the 70s, but here's a clip about Mike Webster:

            I do remember him saying that for a long time, his bench press was just around 350 or so, but his best workout was 445 pounds for six sets of eight reps on the bench

            Anyone who benches knows that if you can do 445 pounds for 6 sets of eight reps, you can likely do 500 and change!!! Not sure how much drug support there was nearly 50 years ago, but even so, it takes a lot of power to bench 500 pounds.
            Last edited by CanDB; 04-21-2021, 11:51 AM.

            Comment


            • Just for a little comparison, here are those same stats for some of the all time greats:

              Bradshaw

              Completions - 51.9%

              TDs vs Pics - 212/210

              Rate - 70.9

              Elway

              Completions - 56.9%

              TDs vs Pics - 300/226

              Rate - 79.9

              Montana

              Completions - 63.2%

              TDs vs Pics - 273/139

              Rate - 92.3

              Marino

              ​​​​​​​Completions - 59.4%

              TDs vs Pics - 420/252

              Rate - 86.4


              Bradshaw did play a decade or so before the others, so I give him some space......but still, he was basically a TD=Pics passer. And even take a Roger Staubach, in the same era as Bradshaw:

              Completions - 57.0%, TDs vs Pics - 153/109, Rate - 83.4

              Both played on excellent teams, but Bradshaw's stats were not good, even back then. But he was one of the faces of the team, and he played within what his team could do, overall.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by CanDB View Post

                So you disagree with me that the current game favours Offence, including QBs?

                So you disagree with me that The Steelers built a strong team around Bradshaw?

                Hmmmm


                I guess I interpreted your post as something in regards to quarterbacks and their immediate success versus needing time. I don't necessarily think the steelers built around Bradshaw. I think Bradshaw was just a Beneficiary of a great organisation in his time. Personally, I don't think Bradshaw would even be that good of a quarterback in today's game. Coaches would not have the patience with him that they had to have back them.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by jazzbodog View Post

                  How exactly, name 5 aspects that today's football is designed and tailor made for immediate success. Is one of them because of the HOF running backs disappearing because many QBs are now good QBs and good rushers?

                  The 2020 season had 15 teams with losing records and 3 teams at 8-8
                  The 1995 season had 13 teams with losing records and 4 teams at 8-8
                  The 1980 season had 12 teams with losing records and 3 teams at 8-8

                  Fairly equal over a 40 year period. So where is the modern day success building of NFL teams that differs from 40 years ago?
                  It doesn't really matter what I say with you, whatever I say is just going to be nitpicked. I just leave it with more of college football is being integrated in today's game

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post

                    I guess I interpreted your post as something in regards to quarterbacks and their immediate success versus needing time. I don't necessarily think the steelers built around Bradshaw. I think Bradshaw was just a Beneficiary of a great organisation in his time. Personally, I don't think Bradshaw would even be that good of a quarterback in today's game. Coaches would not have the patience with him that they had to have back them.
                    Actually I do not believe The Steelers built around Bradshaw. He just blended in with the amazing team that they put together, in every aspect of the game. I believe there were 14 players/coaches/ownership that became HoFamers from that dynasty era. That's incredible!!

                    So back to one of my points...whether now or then, you need to stock up with quality players throughout the roster, and not put too much into the QB position. But while saying that, if you are weak in any aspect of the game, having an ordinary QB will likely not lead to success. That's why I get concerned when folks talk about moving up for a QB, given how much that costs in capital, along with the cost of drafting Lock....and the previous QBs going back a few years with no starter outcomes. For me, I have teetered, but I actually prefer we avoid a QB in round one, and select a tier 2 QB, who might be worth the pick and more.

                    I essentially worry that too many good non QBs get passed by as we keep searching for the next potential field leader. If you look at that Steelers team, they made incredible draft picks, and they were basically non QBs.
                    Last edited by CanDB; 04-21-2021, 12:59 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post

                      It doesn't really matter what I say with you, whatever I say is just going to be nitpicked. I just leave it with more of college football is being integrated in today's game
                      Nitpicking? Not nitpicking at all. You made a significant statement. You need to have evidence to back it up or don't make those kind of statements.
                      Utah Bronco Freak

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by CanDB View Post
                        We live in a different era than when some of the most famous QBs had exceptional careers, but with less than stellar stats compared to nowadays. So it is unfair to expect too much from a young Drew Lock, but conversely, the game is different, the refs and the rules tend to favour QBs, receivers and players who get hit "too hard".

                        I always think of Terry Bradshaw, Hall of Famer, 4 time SB Champ, 2 time SB MVP. He played on a legendary team, with one of the best and most feared Ds in history, along with 2 of the best WRs to play the game (Swann, Stallworth), a great RB (Harris), and a powerful Oline anchored by Webster. (That Oline was reportedly all benching 500 pounds, which is still astonishing to me!). And of course they had Chuck Noll as their HC.

                        Bradshaw got the job done, but look at some of his career stats:

                        Completions - 51.9%

                        TDs vs Pics - 212/210

                        Rate - 70.9

                        Yikes, these are the stats a Hall of Famer!

                        But as mentioned, the game has changed, Most star QBs back in the day had stats that do not impress in today's game,

                        Anyway....it brings back a couple of thoughts:
                        1) Give young QBs enough time, but not too long, given the younger group waiting to take their jobs
                        2) Good teams, even great teams, did not always have great QBs, but in my opinion (even nowadays) you can maximize a QBs skillsets if they are a good fit. Or, like the approach taken by Baltimore, you can build your team around the style/skills of your young QB.

                        And in the case of a Terry Bradshaw, who I thought was tough, resilient and even good at times, but never a star player....if you stack a roster on both sides of the line, a decent QB can shine.
                        Who is the career leader in yards per pass attempt at 9? Hint: he played ten years, was in the championship game each year and won seven.
                        "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by CanDB View Post
                          Just for a little comparison, here are those same stats for some of the all time greats:

                          Bradshaw

                          Completions - 51.9%

                          TDs vs Pics - 212/210

                          Rate - 70.9

                          Elway

                          Completions - 56.9%

                          TDs vs Pics - 300/226

                          Rate - 79.9

                          Montana

                          Completions - 63.2%

                          TDs vs Pics - 273/139

                          Rate - 92.3

                          Marino

                          Completions - 59.4%

                          TDs vs Pics - 420/252

                          Rate - 86.4


                          Bradshaw did play a decade or so before the others, so I give him some space......but still, he was basically a TD=Pics passer. And even take a Roger Staubach, in the same era as Bradshaw:

                          Completions - 57.0%, TDs vs Pics - 153/109, Rate - 83.4

                          Both played on excellent teams, but Bradshaw's stats were not good, even back then. But he was one of the faces of the team, and he played within what his team could do, overall.
                          How many of these guys called their own plays?
                          "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by samparnell View Post

                            Who is the career leader in yards per pass attempt at 9? Hint: he played ten years, was in the championship game each year and won seven.
                            Otto Graham

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by jazzbodog View Post

                              Nitpicking? Not nitpicking at all. You made a significant statement. You need to have evidence to back it up or don't make those kind of statements.
                              Yeah, nitpicking.....just like how I'm lame for thinking Lock has to have a pro bowl type year to remain here. No matter what I say or think you are going to attack it.

                              Why do I need facts and stats and charts to have an opinion??? In years past organizations wouldn't even hardly consider a kid if he didn't either have 4 years as a starter or at least play in a pro style offense. Today, kids with only 1 or 2 years starting experience are getting taken very high and a good percentage of them are having solid early success.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by samparnell View Post

                                How many of these guys called their own plays?
                                My gut says all of them...???

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