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  • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post

    I’d like to think most people here watch the games and some look at stats. People with a different take watch the games too.
    I could quickly throw your car keys over your head but you could reach up and grab them anyway. I'd still be a jerk for throwing your car keys over your head.
    Adopt-A-Bronco: Jonathon Cooper

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    • Originally posted by listopencil View Post

      I could quickly throw your car keys over your head but you could reach up and grab them anyway. I'd still be a jerk for throwing your car keys over your head.
      So it's somehow better to consistently have your receivers stop their route and come back to the ball? I don't particularly care if Lock is a NFL caliber starter or not, I'm not really invested in the guy. (Personally I'm ticked they didn't take Fields, and I'm afraid they did so because Paton has a silly emotional attachment to T2Y.) My real problem is I see fans going to the mat to act like there is a huge difference in Lock and T2Y. The truth is they both looked equally inept (in their own unique way) against a real team, and one of them looked that way with a full week of practice. As far as I'm concerned they should both be gone next year.
      Bring Back ORANGE Sunday!!!

      Tim Tebow combines the intensity of Ray Lewis with the throwing ability of... Ray Lewis.

      "It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andrew Jackson

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      • Originally posted by broncojuan View Post

        So it's somehow better to consistently have your receivers stop their route and come back to the ball? I don't particularly care if Lock is a NFL caliber starter or not, I'm not really invested in the guy. (Personally I'm ticked they didn't take Fields, and I'm afraid they did so because Paton has a silly emotional attachment to T2Y.) My real problem is I see fans going to the mat to act like there is a huge difference in Lock and T2Y. The truth is they both looked equally inept (in their own unique way) against a real team, and one of them looked that way with a full week of practice. As far as I'm concerned they should both be gone next year.
        I thought not drafting Fields was a big miss. The Broncos spent 1st round picks on Fant and Jeudy, 2nd round picks on Sutton and Hamler, but we don’t have a QB good enough to make the most of their talent. Surtain was a good pick, yet this team still doesn’t have an answer at QB. It’s like having four high powered cars in your garage with no fuel.

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        • Originally posted by listopencil View Post

          You should watch the players play the game instead of digging through the box scores. You might notice the same bad ball placement that has always been there. Your choice, though. Enjoy the games in your own way.
          Its definitely a cherry picked stat that ignores the numbers within the numbers. Like Teddy playing more games meaning more chances to lower the overall stat. Ignoring talent around the player, ignoring drops. No stat is clear cut other than wins and rings. But predictably ppl will cherry pick and hinge their argument on subjective stats.
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          Adopted Broncos:
          EmmanuelSanders

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          • Credit Lock though, he didn’t take out Hamler and Jeudy with those hanging floaters from Bridgewater. Patrick escaped injury from one of those bad throws, but he’ll get his chance again.

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            • I keep seeing the lust for Fields. I can’t stop wondering if he would be successful under current coaching, play calling or fan expectations?

              Or would he be coached to stay in the pocket and make the safe play? Similar to Bridgewater or any of the last five starters. Would Fields have been named starter over Bridgewater ( the best chance to win now )?

              Would the fanbase be willing to waste all the current talent to allow Fields to have his good and bad days? To make the mistakes of a rookie.

              I get that many simply think Lock sucks, end of story. Just curious what your expectations are with any exciting new QB if/ when the Broncos draft one?

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              • Originally posted by FR Tim View Post
                I keep seeing the lust for Fields. I can’t stop wondering if he would be successful under current coaching, play calling or fan expectations?

                Or would he be coached to stay in the pocket and make the safe play? Similar to Bridgewater or any of the last five starters. Would Fields have been named starter over Bridgewater ( the best chance to win now )?

                Would the fanbase be willing to waste all the current talent to allow Fields to have his good and bad days? To make the mistakes of a rookie.

                I get that many simply think Lock sucks, end of story. Just curious what your expectations are with any exciting new QB if/ when the Broncos draft one?
                I think failure creates the reaction seen on this and every sports forum or thread on social media. Everybody has a player they want, but would also turn on said player if things go south. I wasn't high on Fields, but do recall a few hear mentioning him. If he was a Bronco and struggle as much as Lock, those people who wanted him would turn on him. Fans are fickle. Sports fans aren't patient, they want instant success or success within 2 seasons. I see it every day as someone from Detroit. Family members and their friends that root for the Lions never wanna be patient, pressure the front office, look at em.
                Tigers fans wanted to get rid of AJ Hinch after their slow start in April...season ended with a lot of ppl thinking AJ should be in the talks for manager of the year. But fans still think he should lose his job bc a rebuilding team didn't make the playoffs.Hell those fans called for the team to cut Miggy but was the first to praise him when he got hot and hit his 500th home run.

                My point is fans don't trust the process at all, and don't understand that the vibe we put into a team can effect the team's culture. Look at the fan culuture teams like the Seahawks, Steelers, Packers etc put out...Some teams will fire coaches too soon because fans got loud. Someone has to be the scapegoat, so fans usually pick the coach or QB.

                In 5yrs if Fields flunk out or become a backup QB, some ppl who were high on him will just blame his team and coaches, not accept he just wasn't an NFL QB. Which also happens with Lock. Some of his supports would rather blame everyone else other than accept he just ain't it.
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                • Originally posted by FR Tim View Post
                  I keep seeing the lust for Fields. I can’t stop wondering if he would be successful under current coaching, play calling or fan expectations?

                  Or would he be coached to stay in the pocket and make the safe play? Similar to Bridgewater or any of the last five starters. Would Fields have been named starter over Bridgewater ( the best chance to win now )?

                  Would the fanbase be willing to waste all the current talent to allow Fields to have his good and bad days? To make the mistakes of a rookie.

                  I get that many simply think Lock sucks, end of story. Just curious what your expectations are with any exciting new QB if/ when the Broncos draft one?
                  I'll play on what my expectations are with any exciting new QB if/ when the Broncos draft one. My expectiations are best illustrated by Tebow and Cutler. Both had things that you could see were substantial problems but both also had things pointing to greatness. Lock has several bad games and one great, whereas Cutler often had two fantastic games followed by a lousy game.

                  With Cutler, I never really bought into him because I focus very much on the "leading the team" aspect. No one could be in doubt that Cutler had tremendous talent and every time I hated him as our QB because he stunk and lost us a game, he would turn around and give you hope for the future. The major issue with Cutler was that the team didn't play for him and he didn't really develop in his understanding of the game.

                  With Tebow it was clear early that he was a team builder and that he possessed competitive greatness that we had not seen since Elway and to some extent Plummer. In the midst of the God thing and the ugly passes, there was something very special to build on, and like young Elway magic happened when the coaches said just make something happen. In the midst of his worst game (KC W17) he managed to learn manipulating the safety which he didn't do in W17 but did for the first TD against the Steelers.

                  Siemian had a lot of great aspects as well - but it was pretty clear that his body was not NFL ready.

                  On Fields - he may become good, but so far he is not even close to Tebow and Siemian when they played their first games.

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                  • Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post

                    I'll play on what my expectations are with any exciting new QB if/ when the Broncos draft one. My expectiations are best illustrated by Tebow and Cutler. Both had things that you could see were substantial problems but both also had things pointing to greatness. Lock has several bad games and one great, whereas Cutler often had two fantastic games followed by a lousy game.

                    With Cutler, I never really bought into him because I focus very much on the "leading the team" aspect. No one could be in doubt that Cutler had tremendous talent and every time I hated him as our QB because he stunk and lost us a game, he would turn around and give you hope for the future. The major issue with Cutler was that the team didn't play for him and he didn't really develop in his understanding of the game.

                    With Tebow it was clear early that he was a team builder and that he possessed competitive greatness that we had not seen since Elway and to some extent Plummer. In the midst of the God thing and the ugly passes, there was something very special to build on, and like young Elway magic happened when the coaches said just make something happen. In the midst of his worst game (KC W17) he managed to learn manipulating the safety which he didn't do in W17 but did for the first TD against the Steelers.

                    Siemian had a lot of great aspects as well - but it was pretty clear that his body was not NFL ready.

                    On Fields - he may become good, but so far he is not even close to Tebow and Siemian when they played their first games.
                    Lmaooooo...whew....thanks I needed that laugh. Gut buster right there. Lol...
                    Until we get a TRUE not name "Lock" qb we will miss the playoffs and be average at best! I'm E2DS and I approve this message! "AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW, NOW YA KNOW."

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                    • Originally posted by Ear2dastreets View Post

                      Lmaooooo...whew....thanks I needed that laugh. Gut buster right there. Lol...
                      Yeah, he's gonna die on that Tebow hill. He's planted his flag.
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                      Hooray, beer!

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                      • Originally posted by CoryWinget81 View Post

                        Yeah, he's gonna die on that Tebow hill. He's planted his flag.
                        Tebow sucked in every meaning of the word. The def kept those scores so low all he had to do is get in fg range.....was elated when he was shipped to the jets.
                        Until we get a TRUE not name "Lock" qb we will miss the playoffs and be average at best! I'm E2DS and I approve this message! "AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW, NOW YA KNOW."

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                        • Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post

                          I'll play on what my expectations are with any exciting new QB if/ when the Broncos draft one. My expectiations are best illustrated by Tebow and Cutler. Both had things that you could see were substantial problems but both also had things pointing to greatness. Lock has several bad games and one great, whereas Cutler often had two fantastic games followed by a lousy game.

                          With Cutler, I never really bought into him because I focus very much on the "leading the team" aspect. No one could be in doubt that Cutler had tremendous talent and every time I hated him as our QB because he stunk and lost us a game, he would turn around and give you hope for the future. The major issue with Cutler was that the team didn't play for him and he didn't really develop in his understanding of the game.

                          With Tebow it was clear early that he was a team builder and that he possessed competitive greatness that we had not seen since Elway and to some extent Plummer. In the midst of the God thing and the ugly passes, there was something very special to build on, and like young Elway magic happened when the coaches said just make something happen. In the midst of his worst game (KC W17) he managed to learn manipulating the safety which he didn't do in W17 but did for the first TD against the Steelers.

                          Siemian had a lot of great aspects as well - but it was pretty clear that his body was not NFL ready.

                          On Fields - he may become good, but so far he is not even close to Tebow and Siemian when they played their first games.
                          I am one of the few people to get past the Tebow hype and see him for the value he added to our team. Like other quality players on the Broncos I also liked Tebow and what he added. He was flawed as a QB tho. He was never going to win a Ring in the NFL at QB.

                          Siemian may have been the worst QB I have ever seen play QB in person. He knows I think he is a fake QB. He had better ability than Tebow but he executed some of the worst QB play I have ever seen in the NFL. It would be interesting to have one of the NFL great QB breakdown people look at what happened to Siemian between 2016 and 2017. I remember two completely different QBs but the QB he is today does not belong in the NFL imo
                          Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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                          • Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post

                            What exactly makes you think that Lock will ever go for 300+yds and 5TDs 0 ints against NFL competition?

                            We are through the third off season where the plan was for Lock to become our next franchise QB, and it just doesn't click. It is not like with Cutler where everyone could see the talent coupled with stupid decisions, or ex. Tebow where everyone could see glaring flaws in limited areas coupled with undeniable strengths. With Lock it is rare flashes of wow coupled with bad decisions, bad technique, and not seing nor developing the understanding of what is going on. Siemian - kind of like Kubiak did not have the body to be great but did have the mind. Lock seems to only have the body.

                            I don't see why he is constantly being defended as I don't see any great reason to expect him to ever be great, and I don't get the "dream for a QB becoming mediocre"!
                            As much as I disliked Cutler - i could see the promise of greatness. As flawed as Tebow was I could see him fixing them to consistently play mediocre to exceptional. With Osweiler he showed some promise of greatness in 2015 but I just see Lock firing blanks!
                            The coaching staff was done with him after the middle of last season.

                            Lock was working out with Peyton. Then they got rid of the OC he was having success with. So he had to learn a new scheme…again. Lock won’t be a bronco and I feel any rookie will be ruined in Denver if fangio and shurmur are still here.
                            Manning to Thomas ev'ry day, all day.

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                            • I kinda wonder what Fangio has against Lock? He seems to really dislike the kid. Going back to his rookie season. He has really been reluctant to put him in. It kinda makes me wish I were a fly on the wall so I can see what he sees.

                              Personally, he really reminds me of Jake Plummer, mentally (his arm is way better, and his leadership capabilities are way worse, but he makes similar mistakes). He needs the right coaching. Unfortunately Shurmur is no Shanahan (maybe the best offensive mind in NFL history). If Lock was ever going to amount to anything he was going to need to have the right coach, and I think that's the problem. We all see that potential.

                              If he could live up to his potential on this team, we could win 12.
                              Last edited by broncojuan; 10-10-2021, 04:51 PM.
                              Bring Back ORANGE Sunday!!!

                              Tim Tebow combines the intensity of Ray Lewis with the throwing ability of... Ray Lewis.

                              "It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andrew Jackson

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                              • Originally posted by broncojuan View Post
                                I kinda wonder what Fangio has against Lock? He seems to really dislike the kid. Going back to his rookie season. He has really been reluctant to put him in. I kinda makes me wish I were a fly on the wall so I can see what he sees.

                                Personally, he really reminds me of Jake Plummer, mentally (his arm is way better, and his leadership capabilities are way worse, but he makes similar mistakes). He needs the right coaching. Unfortunately Shurmur is no Shanahan (maybe the best offensive mind in NFL history). If Lock was ever going to amount to anything he was going to need to have the right coach, and I think that's the problem. We all see that potential.

                                If he could live up to his potential on this team, we could win 12.
                                Like Jake Plummer, Lock may need a change of scenery to reach his potential. Plummer was pretty bad in AZ then came to Denver and played really well. Lock just needs to find a real organization that believes in him. He’s already shown he can win. Just needs an OC that isn’t incompetent and a fan base that doesn’t hate his guts.
                                Eternal Broncos Optimist

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