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  • Originally posted by RocketArm006 View Post
    The weird thing is I see several plays where I’m like “wow, I like that design”. Then there’s several where I’m like “that’s just trying to be too cute and clever.” I also think his play calling is wildly inconsistent.

    I think the guy has decent potential. He just needs to keep it simple sometimes.
    Same here. Without going back and watching every play, which would be painful, it’s difficult to know how much of the issue is execution vs play calls. Some of the calls are head scratchers however we also have issues with execution. He needs to figure out what these players can do well and calls the game to their strengths.

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    • Originally posted by arapaho View Post
      his play calling is just out of whack...I know hes pressing at times getting cute and looking for the big gain...which is occasionally a hit...but he doesn't seem to be aware of the situation
      like a crucial 3rd down...most of our sacks and bad plays are on third...and it seems that hes trying to get the big play, when the defense is loading up and coming after the qb, and we only need 3 yards...he continually calls these slow developing plays instead of knowing, the defenses is gonna come, we need 3 yards...call a play that gets some body open quick!!!

      how many times have we seen the screen or jet sweep to fant...hes fast...but he aint jet sweep fast, its like he thinks im gonna catch them by surprise, and every time it gets sniffed out
      I think you nailed it with respect to pressing at times. It’s like he’s trying to show he can call plays the defense won’t see coming. Defenses can see the plays based on the personnel and motions. He’s not calling plays against college defenses. I want to see continuity with the coaching staff but he needs to improve before the end of this season.

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      • Jeff Legwold said hes worried that if Lock goes in he will get killed and his confidence will be shattered. He seemed to think it might be better for Lock if he didnt play at all this year.

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        • If you pay him, use him. How do they evaluate they have a good / or bad leader ? Does he have what it takes to lead a team ?

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          • Originally posted by BroncoStampede View Post
            Jeff Legwold said hes worried that if Lock goes in he will get killed and his confidence will be shattered. He seemed to think it might be better for Lock if he didnt play at all this year.
            I'm a firm believer that sitting on the bench isn't going to change that. If his confidence gets killed now, he's not the type of qb that is going to succeed.

            Especially since despite popular belief, our line isn't worst in the league, it's dead middle and there are a lot of good QBs with worse lines that get hit more often than our qb...

            He either crumbles under pressure and he's not the guy or he doesn't and we move forward. Time isn't going to fix that.
            Last edited by Freyaka; 11-25-2019, 05:51 PM.
            sigpic

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            • Originally posted by BroncoStampede View Post
              Jeff Legwold said hes worried that if Lock goes in he will get killed and his confidence will be shattered. He seemed to think it might be better for Lock if he didnt play at all this year.
              So Jeff......have you thought about what we do with our offseason FA/Draft capital? Do we assume we have a QB, or not? Do we spend a high draft pick on a QB or not? Do we miss out on a potential franchise Oliner (or other non QB position) by guessing that we need a QB or not? Do we wait for a message from the heavens to make our strategic decisions, or do we actually show some smarts and wherewithal, and make the decisions based on facts and logic, and yes.....seeing what we have in order to assess what we need???

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              • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
                I think you nailed it with respect to pressing at times. It’s like he’s trying to show he can call plays the defense won’t see coming. Defenses can see the plays based on the personnel and motions. He’s not calling plays against college defenses. I want to see continuity with the coaching staff but he needs to improve before the end of this season.
                I think a lot of it isn’t necessarily the plays he’s calling but that he’s just calling plays to call plays. To put it simply it’s like a novice chess player who is just making moves with no foresight. Or the glaring checker vs chess comparison.

                The TE sweep is actually a shining example of this. How often have we seen Fant crash down on a wham block? I think I’ve seen it once all season and that was recently out of a shotgun formation if I’m not mistaken. We ran the TE sweep in the first game the first play of the season. Now if Scangerello had come from a power blocking scheme then it might have worked but he’s from the zone tree and not just any zone tree, the Shannahan zone tree where bootlegs are the staple, Gruden has coached against this scheme multiple times and backside contain was likely a major point of emphasis so the play was doomed from the beginning. If you want that play to be effective you probably want to run it against an undisciplined defense and you want to set it up by having Fant crash down on wham blocks continuously.

                The shovel pass is another example. We haven’t ran any speed option plays or shotgun toss plays or shotgun rollouts and we’re facing a Mike Zimmer defense that is usually very disciplined. It was more successful than the sweep but didn’t get the first down. And I remember Xavier Rhodes made the tackle, he’s rarely playing inside CB, was there a motion that brought him in the box?

                We don’t even run zone stretch nearly enough for the bootlegs to be effective. It’s just a lot of inside zone and more power plays than I was expecting which makes me question if Scangerello is even installing the run packages or is someone else doing that and giving him a list of the plays? He’s only ever coached WRs and QBs so it’s possible. This offense looks very little like the Kyle Shannahan offense.

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                • Originally posted by colowoz View Post
                  If you pay him, use him. How do they evaluate they have a good / or bad leader ? Does he have what it takes to lead a team ?
                  By that logic, we should also play Rypien. He's getting paid too.
                  Eternal Broncos Optimist

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                  • Could've have my boy Lamar and we would be good.
                    Until we get a TRUE not name "Lock" qb we will miss the playoffs and be average at best! I'm E2DS and I approve this message! "AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW, NOW YA KNOW."

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                    • Originally posted by Ear2dastreets View Post
                      Could've have my boy Lamar and we would be good.
                      Elway wouldn't take Lamar. Lamar is a QB that has talent.
                      Eternal Broncos Optimist

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                      • Originally posted by Megalodon30 View Post
                        Elway wouldn't take Lamar. Lamar is a QB that has talent.
                        Trust I know
                        Until we get a TRUE not name "Lock" qb we will miss the playoffs and be average at best! I'm E2DS and I approve this message! "AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW, NOW YA KNOW."

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                        • Originally posted by Ear2dastreets View Post
                          Could've have my boy Lamar and we would be good.
                          Nah. Lamar would be on the bench here. We’d be hearing all about how he’s just not throwing well enough in practice and isn’t picking up the play book fast enough. Besides, we’d have a vet FA in front of him who “gives us the best chance to win”.

                          This organization is firmly planted in old school dogma.
                          sigpic

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                          • Originally posted by RocketArm006 View Post
                            Nah. Lamar would be on the bench here. We’d be hearing all about how he’s just not throwing well enough in practice and isn’t picking up the play book fast enough. Besides, we’d have a vet FA in front of him who “gives us the best chance to win”.

                            This organization is firmly planted in old school dogma.
                            Lmao, I understand you. Just suck everyone knows I pounded the table for him. Just the the excitement and tickets sales Broncos could have had. If our FO had a clue and didn't have the mindset of the 90s.
                            Until we get a TRUE not name "Lock" qb we will miss the playoffs and be average at best! I'm E2DS and I approve this message! "AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW, NOW YA KNOW."

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Ear2dastreets View Post
                              Lmao, I understand you. Just suck everyone knows I pounded the table for him. Just the the excitement and tickets sales Broncos could have had. If our FO had a clue and didn't have the mindset of the 90s.
                              Totally agree. An exciting young QB gets the fans excited and buys time for a rebuild.
                              sigpic

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
                                I think a lot of it isn’t necessarily the plays he’s calling but that he’s just calling plays to call plays. To put it simply it’s like a novice chess player who is just making moves with no foresight. Or the glaring checker vs chess comparison.

                                The TE sweep is actually a shining example of this. How often have we seen Fant crash down on a wham block? I think I’ve seen it once all season and that was recently out of a shotgun formation if I’m not mistaken. We ran the TE sweep in the first game the first play of the season. Now if Scangerello had come from a power blocking scheme then it might have worked but he’s from the zone tree and not just any zone tree, the Shannahan zone tree where bootlegs are the staple, Gruden has coached against this scheme multiple times and backside contain was likely a major point of emphasis so the play was doomed from the beginning. If you want that play to be effective you probably want to run it against an undisciplined defense and you want to set it up by having Fant crash down on wham blocks continuously.

                                The shovel pass is another example. We haven’t ran any speed option plays or shotgun toss plays or shotgun rollouts and we’re facing a Mike Zimmer defense that is usually very disciplined. It was more successful than the sweep but didn’t get the first down. And I remember Xavier Rhodes made the tackle, he’s rarely playing inside CB, was there a motion that brought him in the box?

                                We don’t even run [B]zone stretch nearly enough[B] for the bootlegs to be effective. It’s just a lot of inside zone and more power plays than I was expecting which makes me question if Scangerello is even installing the run packages or is someone else doing that and giving him a list of the plays? He’s only ever coached WRs and QBs so it’s possible. This offense looks very little like the Kyle Shannahan offense.
                                Those zone stretch plays are actually more suited for our line, but as you said not run enough. When we run the bootlegs there is almost always a defender waiting on the backside. I haven’t gone back to watch some of those bootlegs, but it seems like they should have a short, intermediate and deep route available for Lock. In preseason Lock had one of those plays with a defender coming down - he had the arm strength to make the throw. Scangerello will need to run plays that make it easier for Lock - one or two reads max. Get Lindsay in space for short passes and take the pressure off Lock.

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