Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Drew Lock Thread

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • listopencil
    replied
    Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

    Here’s the thing with Mahomes, it isn’t that he himself is special. It’s his arm strength combined with what Hill, Hardman, and even Watkins bring to the table with their speed. Due to how fast they are, it makes it a monumental task to cover Kelce over the middle and you have to do it with just 1 person. As long as Hill is there and paired with another electric speedster they will be favorites pretty much every season.

    Definitely disagree with your view on the draft picks. Clady was good, was also helped out by Cutler’s mobility and the scheme which fooled many into thinking he was a great pass protector. He may not have allowed a sack his rookie season, but he did lead the league in pressures. Then 8 sacks allowed in year 2, 7.5 in year 3, and 9 in year 4.

    Moreno was solid, but his production could have been easily replaced by a much later round pick. And his top years here came against light boxes due to Manning. He was not a good pick at 12.

    Ayers was a bust at 18. He was solid enough but much like Moreno his production could’ve been replaced easily. One great game doesn’t make him a good pick.

    No argument on Demaryius Thomas, although his career was significantly different without Manning.

    Tebow was a waste of a pick. You don’t draft a QB in the 1st with the intention of running 50 times a game (unless it’s Lamar Jackson) or with the intention that he’s going to find a way to entice one of the best ever at QB to come here.

    Von Miller was a great pick no doubt about it.

    Sylvester Williams, bust.

    Bradley Roby was inconsistent even as a member of the No Fly Zone and considering how enviable it would be to match up against the 3rd best WR with Ware, Miller, Jackson, and Wolfe breathing down QB’s necks and it almost looks like a plug and play situation. His career away from that group has been mediocre.

    Shane Ray, Paxton Lynch busts.

    Garrett Bolles has only played well for 1 season but looks to have finally turned it around in year 4. 3 years of bad play and 1 good year. We’ll see if he can keep it up.

    Chubb, he’s a solid player. I don’t think he’s the Batman type of pass rusher though at least not yet. Malik Reed led the team in sacks last year, not Chubb. Great rookie year, injured year 2, and solid in year 3. And again, like with Von this was the 5th pick and many people didn’t think he’d last that long.

    Fant, a solid player for sure. But why is that? It’s his speed, which we have in AOK as well. Fant doesn’t run good routes, he improved a bit as a blocker but he’s still only serviceable in that area, and he’s not very good at tracking the ball/making adjustments while the ball is in the air. I’m sure he will improve and be a great TE but he’s not irreplaceable by any means.

    Jeudy, too early to judge but he has a serious skill set to make him a terror for offenses once he learns how to use his hands to catch the ball.



    All in all, aside from Miller and maybe Chubb, none of these guys are irreplaceable. Many of them are just a dime a dozen. Bolles may very well end up being great but it took 3 years to get there, we’d have a 1st round pick again by that time in a hypothetical Watson deal. My big question from all of this would be, why are you so lenient on these draft picks but you don’t want the all time leader in completion percentage, the youngest QB to ever complete 70% of his passes, and an all around great QB? And you can’t say W/L record because many of these draft picks played on teams that had bad records so clearly these guys weren’t making or breaking the team. The best picks came higher than the 9th pick we currently have and I would trade any combination of those guys for Watson easily. I’d even throw in Chubb.
    I strongly disagree with your take on Mahomes. He is special. He makes throws that most QB's can't even visualize, much less attempt. I could see that in the very first game I watched him play as it was against our Broncos. His arm, mobility, throwing on the run, reading the D pre and post snap, vision...it's light years ahead of anything we've had behind Center other than a couple of HoF'ers and guys temporarily playing out of their minds.

    Leave a comment:


  • BroncoFanDK
    replied
    Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

    Here’s the thing with Mahomes, it isn’t that he himself is special. It’s his arm strength combined with what Hill, Hardman, and even Watkins bring to the table with their speed. Due to how fast they are, it makes it a monumental task to cover Kelce over the middle and you have to do it with just 1 person. As long as Hill is there and paired with another electric speedster they will be favorites pretty much every season.

    Definitely disagree with your view on the draft picks. Clady was good, was also helped out by Cutler’s mobility and the scheme which fooled many into thinking he was a great pass protector. He may not have allowed a sack his rookie season, but he did lead the league in pressures. Then 8 sacks allowed in year 2, 7.5 in year 3, and 9 in year 4.

    Moreno was solid, but his production could have been easily replaced by a much later round pick. And his top years here came against light boxes due to Manning. He was not a good pick at 12.

    Ayers was a bust at 18. He was solid enough but much like Moreno his production could’ve been replaced easily. One great game doesn’t make him a good pick.

    No argument on Demaryius Thomas, although his career was significantly different without Manning.

    Tebow was a waste of a pick. You don’t draft a QB in the 1st with the intention of running 50 times a game (unless it’s Lamar Jackson) or with the intention that he’s going to find a way to entice one of the best ever at QB to come here.

    Von Miller was a great pick no doubt about it.

    Sylvester Williams, bust.

    Bradley Roby was inconsistent even as a member of the No Fly Zone and considering how enviable it would be to match up against the 3rd best WR with Ware, Miller, Jackson, and Wolfe breathing down QB’s necks and it almost looks like a plug and play situation. His career away from that group has been mediocre.

    Shane Ray, Paxton Lynch busts.

    Garrett Bolles has only played well for 1 season but looks to have finally turned it around in year 4. 3 years of bad play and 1 good year. We’ll see if he can keep it up.

    Chubb, he’s a solid player. I don’t think he’s the Batman type of pass rusher though at least not yet. Malik Reed led the team in sacks last year, not Chubb. Great rookie year, injured year 2, and solid in year 3. And again, like with Von this was the 5th pick and many people didn’t think he’d last that long.

    Fant, a solid player for sure. But why is that? It’s his speed, which we have in AOK as well. Fant doesn’t run good routes, he improved a bit as a blocker but he’s still only serviceable in that area, and he’s not very good at tracking the ball/making adjustments while the ball is in the air. I’m sure he will improve and be a great TE but he’s not irreplaceable by any means.

    Jeudy, too early to judge but he has a serious skill set to make him a terror for offenses once he learns how to use his hands to catch the ball.



    All in all, aside from Miller and maybe Chubb, none of these guys are irreplaceable. Many of them are just a dime a dozen. Bolles may very well end up being great but it took 3 years to get there, we’d have a 1st round pick again by that time in a hypothetical Watson deal. My big question from all of this would be, why are you so lenient on these draft picks but you don’t want the all time leader in completion percentage, the youngest QB to ever complete 70% of his passes, and an all around great QB? And you can’t say W/L record because many of these draft picks played on teams that had bad records so clearly these guys weren’t making or breaking the team. The best picks came higher than the 9th pick we currently have and I would trade any combination of those guys for Watson easily. I’d even throw in Chubb.
    Yes - you are right that Mahomes does not do things on his own and once his contract kicks into cap hell he will be a lot worse, but KC still don't have to give up draft capital. Many fair points on Broncos players - BUT - you don't draft later players with the benefit of 20:20 hindsight, so no you cannot easily replace a 1st or 2nd round player with later rounds because you do not find the gems. There is a reason that ex. our #9 pick is worth 5-10 3rd round picks depending on where they fall.

    I can garantee you that Broncos will not make up for the deficiency by drafting 500-1000% better than the rest of the NFL.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kyousukeneko
    replied
    Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

    Here’s the thing with Mahomes, it isn’t that he himself is special. It’s his arm strength combined with what Hill, Hardman, and even Watkins bring to the table with their speed. Due to how fast they are, it makes it a monumental task to cover Kelce over the middle and you have to do it with just 1 person. As long as Hill is there and paired with another electric speedster they will be favorites pretty much every season.

    Definitely disagree with your view on the draft picks. Clady was good, was also helped out by Cutler’s mobility and the scheme which fooled many into thinking he was a great pass protector. He may not have allowed a sack his rookie season, but he did lead the league in pressures. Then 8 sacks allowed in year 2, 7.5 in year 3, and 9 in year 4.

    Moreno was solid, but his production could have been easily replaced by a much later round pick. And his top years here came against light boxes due to Manning. He was not a good pick at 12.

    Ayers was a bust at 18. He was solid enough but much like Moreno his production could’ve been replaced easily. One great game doesn’t make him a good pick.

    No argument on Demaryius Thomas, although his career was significantly different without Manning.

    Tebow was a waste of a pick. You don’t draft a QB in the 1st with the intention of running 50 times a game (unless it’s Lamar Jackson) or with the intention that he’s going to find a way to entice one of the best ever at QB to come here.

    Von Miller was a great pick no doubt about it.

    Sylvester Williams, bust.

    Bradley Roby was inconsistent even as a member of the No Fly Zone and considering how enviable it would be to match up against the 3rd best WR with Ware, Miller, Jackson, and Wolfe breathing down QB’s necks and it almost looks like a plug and play situation. His career away from that group has been mediocre.

    Shane Ray, Paxton Lynch busts.

    Garrett Bolles has only played well for 1 season but looks to have finally turned it around in year 4. 3 years of bad play and 1 good year. We’ll see if he can keep it up.

    Chubb, he’s a solid player. I don’t think he’s the Batman type of pass rusher though at least not yet. Malik Reed led the team in sacks last year, not Chubb. Great rookie year, injured year 2, and solid in year 3. And again, like with Von this was the 5th pick and many people didn’t think he’d last that long.

    Fant, a solid player for sure. But why is that? It’s his speed, which we have in AOK as well. Fant doesn’t run good routes, he improved a bit as a blocker but he’s still only serviceable in that area, and he’s not very good at tracking the ball/making adjustments while the ball is in the air. I’m sure he will improve and be a great TE but he’s not irreplaceable by any means.

    Jeudy, too early to judge but he has a serious skill set to make him a terror for offenses once he learns how to use his hands to catch the ball.



    All in all, aside from Miller and maybe Chubb, none of these guys are irreplaceable. Many of them are just a dime a dozen. Bolles may very well end up being great but it took 3 years to get there, we’d have a 1st round pick again by that time in a hypothetical Watson deal. My big question from all of this would be, why are you so lenient on these draft picks but you don’t want the all time leader in completion percentage, the youngest QB to ever complete 70% of his passes, and an all around great QB? And you can’t say W/L record because many of these draft picks played on teams that had bad records so clearly these guys weren’t making or breaking the team. The best picks came higher than the 9th pick we currently have and I would trade any combination of those guys for Watson easily. I’d even throw in Chubb.
    Chubb is really good he drew more pressure then Reed. He also faced double teams and opened it up for other players such as Reed to have a good season. I think he will be special in this league

    Leave a comment:


  • beastlyskronk
    replied
    Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post

    I am sure you are right about Lock never being good enough for us to compete for championships, and you might very well be right that Mahomes is so special that he might overcome the handicap of his pay. As Al Wilson says Mahomes plays at a higher level than any QB he has ever seen, but there is a world of difference between what Mahomes can do an what Deshaun Watson can. Mahomes time and time again has been loosing games and then come out and scored an obsene amount of points in no time.

    First round picks
    2008 12 Ryan Clady OT Boise State Fantastic OT for years
    2009 12 Knowshon Moreno RB Georgia Solid producer for 5 years - 10TD in 2013 - huge part of that team
    2009 18 Robert Ayers DE Tennessee Wouldn't have won WC against Steelers without him
    2010 22 Demaryius Thomas WR Georgia Tech 2nd leading Broncos reciever of all time
    2010 25 Tim Tebow QB Florida Manning wouldn't have come without him, 2011 wouldn't have happened
    Broncos would have been in a 10 year slump without those results
    2011 2 Von Miller LB Texas A & M No SB 50 without him
    2012 No pick
    2013 28 Sylvester Williams DT North Carolina
    2014 31 Bradley Roby CB Ohio State Significant part of No Fly Zone
    2015 23 Shane Ray LB Missouri
    2016 26 Paxton Lynch QB Memphis
    2017 20 Garett Bolles OT Utah Good to great OT now
    2018 5 Bradley Chubb DE NC State Core defensive player
    2019 20 Noah Fant TE Iowa Core offensive player
    2020 15 Jerry Jeudy WR Alabama
    With a few negatives - P. Lynch we have gotten great production from cheap players saving millions in cap space for FA signings.
    Here’s the thing with Mahomes, it isn’t that he himself is special. It’s his arm strength combined with what Hill, Hardman, and even Watkins bring to the table with their speed. Due to how fast they are, it makes it a monumental task to cover Kelce over the middle and you have to do it with just 1 person. As long as Hill is there and paired with another electric speedster they will be favorites pretty much every season.

    Definitely disagree with your view on the draft picks. Clady was good, was also helped out by Cutler’s mobility and the scheme which fooled many into thinking he was a great pass protector. He may not have allowed a sack his rookie season, but he did lead the league in pressures. Then 8 sacks allowed in year 2, 7.5 in year 3, and 9 in year 4.

    Moreno was solid, but his production could have been easily replaced by a much later round pick. And his top years here came against light boxes due to Manning. He was not a good pick at 12.

    Ayers was a bust at 18. He was solid enough but much like Moreno his production could’ve been replaced easily. One great game doesn’t make him a good pick.

    No argument on Demaryius Thomas, although his career was significantly different without Manning.

    Tebow was a waste of a pick. You don’t draft a QB in the 1st with the intention of running 50 times a game (unless it’s Lamar Jackson) or with the intention that he’s going to find a way to entice one of the best ever at QB to come here.

    Von Miller was a great pick no doubt about it.

    Sylvester Williams, bust.

    Bradley Roby was inconsistent even as a member of the No Fly Zone and considering how enviable it would be to match up against the 3rd best WR with Ware, Miller, Jackson, and Wolfe breathing down QB’s necks and it almost looks like a plug and play situation. His career away from that group has been mediocre.

    Shane Ray, Paxton Lynch busts.

    Garrett Bolles has only played well for 1 season but looks to have finally turned it around in year 4. 3 years of bad play and 1 good year. We’ll see if he can keep it up.

    Chubb, he’s a solid player. I don’t think he’s the Batman type of pass rusher though at least not yet. Malik Reed led the team in sacks last year, not Chubb. Great rookie year, injured year 2, and solid in year 3. And again, like with Von this was the 5th pick and many people didn’t think he’d last that long.

    Fant, a solid player for sure. But why is that? It’s his speed, which we have in AOK as well. Fant doesn’t run good routes, he improved a bit as a blocker but he’s still only serviceable in that area, and he’s not very good at tracking the ball/making adjustments while the ball is in the air. I’m sure he will improve and be a great TE but he’s not irreplaceable by any means.

    Jeudy, too early to judge but he has a serious skill set to make him a terror for offenses once he learns how to use his hands to catch the ball.



    All in all, aside from Miller and maybe Chubb, none of these guys are irreplaceable. Many of them are just a dime a dozen. Bolles may very well end up being great but it took 3 years to get there, we’d have a 1st round pick again by that time in a hypothetical Watson deal. My big question from all of this would be, why are you so lenient on these draft picks but you don’t want the all time leader in completion percentage, the youngest QB to ever complete 70% of his passes, and an all around great QB? And you can’t say W/L record because many of these draft picks played on teams that had bad records so clearly these guys weren’t making or breaking the team. The best picks came higher than the 9th pick we currently have and I would trade any combination of those guys for Watson easily. I’d even throw in Chubb.

    Leave a comment:


  • BroncoFanDK
    replied
    Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

    Big money WRs and RBs don’t win Super Bowls is the myth. The QB cap percentage nonsense you’re talking about will correct itself over time. Mahomes will probably win another one at some point in his career as well as some of the other elite young QBs in the game right now. You sound like you just want to draft a QB every 4-5 seasons and never pay the guy his worth. That isn’t a recipe for sustained success.

    Watson would not divide the locker room, our locker room seems to be actively campaigning for him, even Justin Simmons is saying he’d like to have Watson. Drew Lock is just as likely to divide the locker room into the great offense vs defense fiasco we’ve seen the past few years. Worse results? I don’t think Watson will ever throw 18 TDs and 15 INTs in a single season. Almost anything is an improvement over that. How would it hamstring the organization?? What 1st round pick or combo of picks is going to come in and right the ship? It would have to be a QB but what QB is going to available from picks 9-15 over the next 2-3 seasons that won’t take 2-3 seasons to develop? Wilson likely won’t be there at 9 and he still needs at least a season to fix his flaws so he’s out. Lance? He’s just as likely to be out the league in 3 years as he is to be an elite QB. Jones? Will always be limited by his arm. Next year’s class when we’re picking 12th? Yeah there’s no one there either. The year after? Well we’re already in the theoretical last year of picks we spent for Watson and there definitely won’t be a QB better than Watson as a rookie.

    All these draft picks we’ve used since Manning retired has only taken us further from the goal. The draft picks will not matter until we have a legitimate franchise QB. Ozzie Newsome is arguably the greatest GM of all time in terms of drafting yet with all these HoF players and Pro Bowl he only managed 2 super bowl wins, one with a historic defense and another with an above average QB playing out of his mind. So in 27 years(and really it’s more because he’s still working with the Ravens) he’s been to 2 and won 2. But Elway went all in on Manning and went 1-1 in 5 years. Sure we didn’t give up picks for Manning, but did any of those 1st and 2nd round draft picks really make or break those teams?

    Lock will likely never be bad enough to get us a top 5 pick, it’s also just as likely he’s never good enough to consistently put us in the playoffs, especially in this division. The core of the team is good enough to get in the playoffs now, they are just a QB away and there are no QBs we can realistically get through the draft anytime soon that makes us better than we would be with Watson or even that much better than with Lock.
    I am sure you are right about Lock never being good enough for us to compete for championships, and you might very well be right that Mahomes is so special that he might overcome the handicap of his pay. As Al Wilson says Mahomes plays at a higher level than any QB he has ever seen, but there is a world of difference between what Mahomes can do an what Deshaun Watson can. Mahomes time and time again has been loosing games and then come out and scored an obsene amount of points in no time.

    First round picks
    2008 12 Ryan Clady OT Boise State Fantastic OT for years
    2009 12 Knowshon Moreno RB Georgia Solid producer for 5 years - 10TD in 2013 - huge part of that team
    2009 18 Robert Ayers DE Tennessee Wouldn't have won WC against Steelers without him
    2010 22 Demaryius Thomas WR Georgia Tech 2nd leading Broncos reciever of all time
    2010 25 Tim Tebow QB Florida Manning wouldn't have come without him, 2011 wouldn't have happened
    Broncos would have been in a 10 year slump without those results
    2011 2 Von Miller LB Texas A & M No SB 50 without him
    2012 No pick
    2013 28 Sylvester Williams DT North Carolina
    2014 31 Bradley Roby CB Ohio State Significant part of No Fly Zone
    2015 23 Shane Ray LB Missouri
    2016 26 Paxton Lynch QB Memphis
    2017 20 Garett Bolles OT Utah Good to great OT now
    2018 5 Bradley Chubb DE NC State Core defensive player
    2019 20 Noah Fant TE Iowa Core offensive player
    2020 15 Jerry Jeudy WR Alabama
    With a few negatives - P. Lynch we have gotten great production from cheap players saving millions in cap space for FA signings.

    Leave a comment:


  • jazzbodog
    replied
    Originally posted by DiveInstructor View Post

    Don't know. "Outsiders" are assuming that Vegas often gets their guesses right based on what little info is available, though. Just speculation, of course. The one stinker is that many believe the Texans won't make a move until after the draft. Kinda makes sense, since probably suitors with good 1st round picks will use their picks and few will have much to offer. Some are already talking about going after Watson next year, when he's eligible.
    I guess none of us here will know anything until something "valid and concrete" happens. When it does, this forum will light up regardless what it is.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kyousukeneko
    replied
    Originally posted by underrated29 View Post

    I dont think it will be after the draft. Texans don't have a 1st or 2nd. They need to draft players with the picks from Watson. It will be before the draft 100%.
    it wouldn't surprise me to see the Texans take a similar approach to what they did with Clowney and refuse to trade till they are 100% sure Watson wont stay in Houston.

    Leave a comment:


  • underrated29
    replied
    Originally posted by DiveInstructor View Post

    Don't know. "Outsiders" are assuming that Vegas often gets their guesses right based on what little info is available, though. Just speculation, of course. The one stinker is that many believe the Texans won't make a move until after the draft. Kinda makes sense, since probably suitors with good 1st round picks will use their picks and few will have much to offer. Some are already talking about going after Watson next year, when he's eligible.
    I dont think it will be after the draft. Texans don't have a 1st or 2nd. They need to draft players with the picks from Watson. It will be before the draft 100%.

    Leave a comment:


  • colowoz01
    replied
    Interesting articles on the trade (or not) drama surrounding Watson, and will not be the first time Denver signed a QB in that situation. As I recall One such player took the Broncos to the Big Game more than once. That's one way to go.

    Today Sport Radio, (about the time they announced Tiger Woods was in a serious accident) interrupted talk on what they suspect Denver would offer Houston for Watson. Offer would be 3 first round, 2 second round. and some 3rd round selection. There were strong points on both sides of the argument and had me thinking. Maybe going the trade route will prevail.

    I now am back to where I was before, That # 9 position is Ideal to get that competition to challenge Lock, use those other picks to truly better the team by concentrating on the Defense and a quality RB.

    Jones may well move up draft boards, but if he is still available at # 9, Denver would regret passing on him. Is it true that players wish for someone other that Lock.

    Leave a comment:


  • DiveInstructor
    replied
    Originally posted by jazzbodog View Post

    Interesting. I don't follow any Vegas "predictions"....did they give any solid reasons as to why they believe Denver is the favored team to acquire Watson?
    Don't know. "Outsiders" are assuming that Vegas often gets their guesses right based on what little info is available, though. Just speculation, of course. The one stinker is that many believe the Texans won't make a move until after the draft. Kinda makes sense, since probably suitors with good 1st round picks will use their picks and few will have much to offer. Some are already talking about going after Watson next year, when he's eligible.
    Last edited by DiveInstructor; 02-23-2021, 07:23 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • jazzbodog
    replied
    Originally posted by DiveInstructor View Post

    Not related to your comment, but been listening to various sports news, and the Broncos are favored by Vegas to get Watson. Also, if they don't because the Texans don't release him, the Broncos can still have a shot next season, maybe with more cap space. Just in case you haven't heard that stuff....
    Interesting. I don't follow any Vegas "predictions"....did they give any solid reasons as to why they believe Denver is the favored team to acquire Watson?

    Leave a comment:


  • underrated29
    replied
    Originally posted by Ear2dastreets View Post
    Honestly I'm cool either way...we get Watson and be set at qb....or we ride with Drew and guaranteed another top 10 pick next year. Either this will be lock last year with us.
    Right with you brother. Except I have more faith in Drew so I do not think we will be a top 15 pick next year.

    Leave a comment:


  • Peanut
    replied
    Thread cleaned.

    Again.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ear2dastreets
    replied
    Honestly I'm cool either way...we get Watson and be set at qb....or we ride with Drew and guaranteed another top 10 pick next year. Either this will be lock last year with us.

    Leave a comment:


  • DENVERSB50CHAMP
    replied
    So I think Drew Lock will get one more year and if he does not produce like Josh Allen did in his third year as this will now be Drew’s third year then Denver should cut bait however I think Denver will not get into a bidding war for D.Watson what so ever plus Do you remember when Drew Brees was the QB for the San Diego Chargers and then they got rid of him I just say it is way to early to give up on Drew he is a Young QB and he needed to lear from his mistakes with all hopes and dreams that Drew can produce just like another Drew we all know.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X