Fire Shula not Shurmur

[Rich_C]

Hi all,

been a while but I wanted to jump back in here. So I have been hearing for months now that Shurmur IS the problem. Then I always hear the qualifier - because he is not bringing Lock along and having him improve. I find this curious. The OC is there to call plays. Even in that last play of the game we saw two WRs open. Yet Lock threw to the one WR who was double covered. So again I go back to who is coaching Lock - the QB coach. With Lock not progressing and making the same errors over and over again we need to see Shula shown the door - and fast. Ideally I'd like to see if there is a coach who we like who's not on a team right now. Get them here and see if they can push for minor improvements with Lock. That will at least show us that coaching Lock can work and will work.

thoughts?

[sra84]

Shurmur's play calling has been very questionable. I didn't like the hire. He is just another guy who keeps getting jobs for some reason. The only recent success he's had was being the OC when Minnesota made it to the NFC championship game in 2017.

[Rich_C]

Shurmur's play calling has been very questionable. I didn't like the hire. He is just another guy who keeps getting jobs for some reason. The only recent success he's had was being the OC when Minnesota made it to the NFC championship game in 2017.

I am not saying Shurmur is not to blame for some really bad play calls, he is, i am just saying that with the status quo we've seen from Lock this season we might be better off looking for a new QB coach 1st.

[jazzbodog]

Shurmur's play calling has been very questionable. I didn't like the hire. He is just another guy who keeps getting jobs for some reason. The only recent success he's had was being the OC when Minnesota made it to the NFC championship game in 2017.

Somewhat like a clone of Norv Turner?

[johnlimburg]

Hi all,

been a while but I wanted to jump back in here. So I have been hearing for months now that Shurmur IS the problem. Then I always hear the qualifier - because he is not bringing Lock along and having him improve. I find this curious. The OC is there to call plays. Even in that last play of the game we saw two WRs open. Yet Lock threw to the one WR who was double covered. So again I go back to who is coaching Lock - the QB coach. With Lock not progressing and making the same errors over and over again we need to see Shula shown the door - and fast. Ideally I'd like to see if there is a coach who we like who's not on a team right now. Get them here and see if they can push for minor improvements with Lock. That will at least show us that coaching Lock can work and will work.

thoughts?

Why not go back to the actual source ? The player ? Individual accountability trumps all in regards to underperformance, especially basics like "throwing into double teams". Or if not the source, why not the man who is putting these players in place ? Elway ? Everyone continues to try and blame someone different other than the obvious problem, again, it's Elway.

[Rich_C]

Why not go back to the actual source ? The player ? Individual accountability trumps all in regards to underperformance, especially basics like "throwing into double teams". Or if not the source, why not the man who is putting these players in place ? Elway ? Everyone continues to try and blame someone different other than the obvious problem, again, it's Elway.

Sure but if we all took that approach then Josh Allen should have been cut mid-way through year two. The fact is that our team changed coaches out on Lock in an off-season which they all had no actual time to work with one-another. So my thoughts are this. We've basically lost this season. We need to figure out if Drew CAN do better or if he is just a middle of the pack QB. There are two ways of determining if this is player or coach. One would be to bench Lock after his 1st pick and put in Brett. If Brett goes in there and shows legit improvements then we know this is a Lock issue and not a coaching thing. If Brett goes in there and we see offensive calls which don't work but Brett is playing pretty well. Then spotlight goes to Shurmur. If nothing works then I think we need to start with the coach who is responsible for the players development and fire them. Effectively our two options boil down to this - Fire the Coach and see if Lock plays better or Bench the Player and see if a different one (Brett) shows that the issues were Lock and not coaching.

IMO - I'd like to see Lock start again this game. Then if he throws a pick bench him for Brett. If Brett comes into the game and kills it then Lock stays as a bench warmer and our coaches live to coach another day. If Brett plays poorly then Shula should be fired and we bring in someone new and then roll with Lock and the new coach to finish the reason no matter what and see if the new coach can get Lock to improve. Now if Lock does improve with better coaching - the end of season decisions become harder. If Lock remains status quo even with new coaches - QB Round 1.

[broncolee]

Didn’t Shula follow Shurmur to Denver or was he already there?

If Lock isn’t the problem, then the likely answer is the offensive philosophy which falls on Shurmur.

[Rich_C]

Didn’t Shula follow Shurmur to Denver or was he already there?

If Lock isn’t the problem, then the likely answer is the offensive philosophy which falls on Shurmur.

This is what drives me nuts. If the QB is not changing bad habits then that falls on the coaches. Eventually though if the QB does not progress and learn then the issue is the player. If the QB you have is not doing well with the play calls - like if the QB you have is not throwing downfield well and you're asking them to over and over again - that is on the OC. Right now we are seeing Lock (who has tools) not polish them. That is QB coaching.

I am in the camp now where I do not think Lock can overcome some of his challenges (I'd love to be wrong) but that is my opinion at this point. that said we need to be able to rule our Qb coaching. We saw Lock improve last season and now he has gone backwards. So move on from Shula and lets see what we've got.

[MrMax]

Why not go back to the actual source ? The player ? Individual accountability trumps all in regards to underperformance, especially basics like "throwing into double teams". Or if not the source, why not the man who is putting these players in place ? Elway ? Everyone continues to try and blame someone different other than the obvious problem, again, it's Elway.

Elway's A personality and ego are way more important than the Denver Broncos record. He can't be fired and he obviously is never going to quit. We're stuck with him until the courts and/ or the NFL force a sale of the team,; and the new owner, or Beth will fire him,.

[-Rod-]

Make Elway the OC. This way our OC won't be fired.

[broncolee]

This is what drives me nuts. If the QB is not changing bad habits then that falls on the coaches. Eventually though if the QB does not progress and learn then the issue is the player. If the QB you have is not doing well with the play calls - like if the QB you have is not throwing downfield well and you're asking them to over and over again - that is on the OC. Right now we are seeing Lock (who has tools) not polish them. That is QB coaching.

I am in the camp now where I do not think Lock can overcome some of his challenges (I'd love to be wrong) but that is my opinion at this point. that said we need to be able to rule our Qb coaching. We saw Lock improve last season and now he has gone backwards. So move on from Shula and lets see what we've got.

It’s difficult to expect players to change habits they developed throughout their time playing football.

This is why quarterbacks with bad fundamentals shouldn’t really be drafted. The NFL doesn’t provide enough practice time to overcome such deficiencies.

Teams shouldn’t draft a quarterback unless they can work with what he is because it’s unlikely they will be able to turn him in to what they want.

It’s almost a certainty that Shula is being asked to make sure Lock is dialed in on the game plan and not so much on mechanics.

[Sam_Z]

I’d say both Shula and Schurmur share an equal blame and just as many want to credit John for the success that PFM brought to this team, those same people should start with John when it comes to Schurmur and Shula.

Why dismiss Schurmur or Shula just so John could go make another couple of bad hires! I say this is Johns mess and he should be forced to suffer through it for the next season and a half.

[Sam_Z]

Elway's A personality and ego are way more important than the Denver Broncos record. He can't be fired and he obviously is never going to quit. We're stuck with him until the courts and/ or the NFL force a sale of the team,; and the new owner, or Beth will fire him,.

Ive been saying exactly this since the day Gary was forced to step down but hopefully the Denver Broncos will be back sometime sooner rather than in the distant future but for now we’re stuck with the Denver Elways

[MrMax]

He'd love that, or maybe the Elway Brocos or Ellis/Elway Broncos

[Sam_Z]

He'd love that, or maybe the Elway Brocos or Ellis/Elway Broncos

I call them the Denver Elways because these arent the Denver Broncos anymore but hopefully sometime soon we could say Denver Broncos again.

Anyway back to the OP, I heard that Joe Ellis made it clear that neither Fangio nor Schurmur will be fired at the end of this season. Ellis wants continuity, so perhaps that right there is a blessing in disguise! He's not going to allow John to scapegoat coaches as often anymore.