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Fire Shula not Shurmur

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  • #16
    I'm sure the QB coach has some blame but I really don't see Shurmur helping out Lock at all. We LEAD the league in yards per attempt or whatever that stat is. That makes ZERO sense. It seems like shurmur has no quick read options or has told lock to keep the ball and run or dump off passes.

    Or maybe Lock just tries the homerun ball everytime. If that's the case then the coaches haven't been strict enough on him to not do that

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    • #17
      i don't know if that all on shurmer. Lock misses check down guys alot. he needs to learn. that he doesn't have to play Hero Ball in the nfl. and it is better take what the defense is giving him.
      sigpic
      oakland raders gm
      latavis murray trade bait

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      • #18
        Originally posted by broncolee View Post

        It’s difficult to expect players to change habits they developed throughout their time playing football.

        This is why quarterbacks with bad fundamentals shouldn’t really be drafted. The NFL doesn’t provide enough practice time to overcome such deficiencies.

        Teams shouldn’t draft a quarterback unless they can work with what he is because it’s unlikely they will be able to turn him in to what they want.

        It’s almost a certainty that Shula is being asked to make sure Lock is dialed in on the game plan and not so much on mechanics.
        If it is difficult to expect players to change habits they developed throughout their playing time then we'd have a pretty awful National Football League. So to put it mildly I don't buy that. QBs with bad fundamentals can and often do change their ways in time in the NFL. IF they put in the work and are coached. AS of week 14 of the season new plays should few and far between (more one offs) so the only element which would be position specific would be the application of the plays they already know against their opponent. So again I find myself looking at the QB coach and saying - coach your player. IF he is not making reads when ne needs to then he cannot execute the playbook in the game. Work on it. IF Lock cannot throw properly due to footwork - work on it. The OC develops the plays, game plan etc. I expect the position coach to coach their positions and players.

        In fact lets look at our CBs. Bassey started this season looking OK but showed promise. As of the last game he got hurt he had improved and was playing quite well. That was his coaches. They worked with him and improved his game to better execute the game plan.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Dotst View Post
          I'm sure the QB coach has some blame but I really don't see Shurmur helping out Lock at all. We LEAD the league in yards per attempt or whatever that stat is. That makes ZERO sense. It seems like shurmur has no quick read options or has told lock to keep the ball and run or dump off passes.

          Or maybe Lock just tries the homerun ball everytime. If that's the case then the coaches haven't been strict enough on him to not do that
          This is where I disagree - 100%. Look at the tape on the game. In fact just look at the replay of Lock's 1st INT just from the game film. Lock moved off his spot in the pocket and while moving threw the ball to one of the furthest TE's away from him. When there was another TE right in front of him at or near the marker. There is also the issue that when Lock threw the ball to Troy he threw it to Troy's left and to to Troy's right which was near the sideline. If the sideline throw (where that throw should have been thrown towards) got missed then it goes incomplete. Instead Lock not only threw the ball WAY to far downfield he threw the ball to the worst possible spot. Not one of these things are Shurmur. Both Troy & Vannett were open by NFL standards. The bad throw and bad decisions - all Lock.

          Now to reel it all back into this thread. If the Qb is doing the same thing over and over again then I look at the position coach. It is Shula's job to work with Lock and correct these issues.

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          • #20
            Some interesting videos here from a guy offers training, including for QBs. Happens to be in Parker, CO. There are a few videos where he breaks down a number of Lock's plays and talks about how certain coaching 'fixes' (mostly footwork) could lead to better decisions.

            https://www.youtube.com/c/AllThingsQB/videos

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Rich_C View Post

              Sure but if we all took that approach then Josh Allen should have been cut mid-way through year two. The fact is that our team changed coaches out on Lock in an off-season which they all had no actual time to work with one-another. So my thoughts are this. We've basically lost this season. We need to figure out if Drew CAN do better or if he is just a middle of the pack QB. There are two ways of determining if this is player or coach. One would be to bench Lock after his 1st pick and put in Brett. If Brett goes in there and shows legit improvements then we know this is a Lock issue and not a coaching thing. If Brett goes in there and we see offensive calls which don't work but Brett is playing pretty well. Then spotlight goes to Shurmur. If nothing works then I think we need to start with the coach who is responsible for the players development and fire them. Effectively our two options boil down to this - Fire the Coach and see if Lock plays better or Bench the Player and see if a different one (Brett) shows that the issues were Lock and not coaching.

              IMO - I'd like to see Lock start again this game. Then if he throws a pick bench him for Brett. If Brett comes into the game and kills it then Lock stays as a bench warmer and our coaches live to coach another day. If Brett plays poorly then Shula should be fired and we bring in someone new and then roll with Lock and the new coach to finish the reason no matter what and see if the new coach can get Lock to improve. Now if Lock does improve with better coaching - the end of season decisions become harder. If Lock remains status quo even with new coaches - QB Round 1.
              Sure, if you are talking about cutting bait, I am not. Blaming Lock doesn't mean getting rid of him, but it does mean holding him accountable and not firing every coach around him because he can't get the basics right. We have no better option and even benching him if he throws one pick next week is beyond silly as an approach.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by johnlimburg View Post

                Sure, if you are talking about cutting bait, I am not. Blaming Lock doesn't mean getting rid of him, but it does mean holding him accountable and not firing every coach around him because he can't get the basics right. We have no better option and even benching him if he throws one pick next week is beyond silly as an approach.
                I do not believe in firing every coach around him. IMO I think the order of events should be:

                1. Bench Lock after his 1st INT
                2. Play Brett and see if he performs better and makes better decisions and throws
                *Note* IF 2 above does not make a difference then proceed to 3. Otherwise skip to 4.
                3. Fire Shula ASAP, Hire a new QB coach ASAP & Lock starts again for the rest of the season
                End Season
                4. Lock stays on the bench for another game and we see what Brett can do if Brett looks like he can continue his solid play then we finish the season with him.
                End Season

                If it turns out Lock is the bigger issue and Brett looks better then we either roll with Brett next season & we then do one of two things:
                A. Draft a young QB
                OR
                B. Bring in a vet like Fitzmagic or someone like that

                Also at this point if we end up here Lock's gotta get traded.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Rich_C View Post

                  I do not believe in firing every coach around him. IMO I think the order of events should be:

                  1. Bench Lock after his 1st INT
                  2. Play Brett and see if he performs better and makes better decisions and throws
                  *Note* IF 2 above does not make a difference then proceed to 3. Otherwise skip to 4.
                  3. Fire Shula ASAP, Hire a new QB coach ASAP & Lock starts again for the rest of the season
                  End Season
                  4. Lock stays on the bench for another game and we see what Brett can do if Brett looks like he can continue his solid play then we finish the season with him.
                  End Season

                  If it turns out Lock is the bigger issue and Brett looks better then we either roll with Brett next season & we then do one of two things:
                  A. Draft a young QB
                  OR
                  B. Bring in a vet like Fitzmagic or someone like that

                  Also at this point if we end up here Lock's gotta get traded.
                  You cannot develop a young quarterback if you have a plan to bench him after 1 interception in his next game, that is no way to approach a game of football. Also, why ? We are a losing team with no chance of going to the playoffs, these are the times you allow young players the freedom to take their lumps in the hope of development. What are we achieving by benching Lock now ? Rypien is not the guy, you need to allow Lock to play this thing out and gain experience.

                  Also, what if we hire a new offensive coordinator and again the offensive line is bad, the receivers are struggling, and the new quarterback throws some interceptions, are we repeating the process? The team went in on Lock, and as much as I thought people overrated him in his 5 games last year, and as much as I thought the approach with adding receivers in the draft in the first 2 rounds was dumb, you need to see it out another year. Shurmur is a good offensive coach and has been in the past. Give him the off-season with Lock, the new weapons, hopefully, a few new offensive linemen, and see how it goes. This talk of going the veteran route again, and bringing in a new coach, it's all too familiar.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by johnlimburg View Post

                    You cannot develop a young quarterback if you have a plan to bench him after 1 interception in his next game, that is no way to approach a game of football. Also, why ? We are a losing team with no chance of going to the playoffs, these are the times you allow young players the freedom to take their lumps in the hope of development. What are we achieving by benching Lock now ? Rypien is not the guy, you need to allow Lock to play this thing out and gain experience.

                    Also, what if we hire a new offensive coordinator and again the offensive line is bad, the receivers are struggling, and the new quarterback throws some interceptions, are we repeating the process? The team went in on Lock, and as much as I thought people overrated him in his 5 games last year, and as much as I thought the approach with adding receivers in the draft in the first 2 rounds was dumb, you need to see it out another year. Shurmur is a good offensive coach and has been in the past. Give him the off-season with Lock, the new weapons, hopefully, a few new offensive linemen, and see how it goes. This talk of going the veteran route again, and bringing in a new coach, it's all too familiar.
                    Thankyou...finally a voice of reason.....AND, if I'm not mistaken......you never cared for Fangio, Shurmer or Lock.

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