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  • #91
    Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post

    I never once shamed him. I said he is the common denominator the last five seasons.

    I also said he’s not a very good person because I’ve known him personally. That is not shaming him.
    Sam...you stated: "It’s too bad guy like Brian Xander, John Fox, Del Rio, Adam Gase, Wade Phillips, Mike McCoy, Bill Musgrave, Rich Scangarello and Vance Joseph
    don’t go public with their experience here but maybe someday".

    If "going public" with negative comments isn't shaming....what is it?
    Utah Bronco Freak

    Comment


    • #92
      I am new here so I don't really know the posters on this board, but I will give my 2 cents on the situation (probably not worth that much). Elway seems to be the popular scape goat in this thread but I think he is a way better than average GM. Look around the NFL, plenty of teams have issues with their FO, there are 4 GMs openings right now and ready to have a couple more. A few years ago everyone thought Howie Roseman with the Eagles was a genius GM - moving up to get Wentz and building a SB champion, now the Eagles don't think Wentz is their guy and they have a total mess with their salary cap. Elway and the FO staff does a great job with the Salary cap (good example is the Bolles contract) which in this day and age is important. They also do a good job not getting too attached to aging veterans, better to let someone go a year early than a year late.

      Elway's drafting has been a problem at times but I think over the past few years they have done a good job of drafting. Letting the coaches make the final decision is a sure fire way to disaster - Dan Reeves, Mike Shanahan were both undone by their GM roles. Early on Elway gave coaches a big say in who we drafted and that is why we ended up with Demarcus Walker and Adam Gotsis - Bill Kollar fell in love with those guys and they were both reaches. I know for a fact they have totally revamped their decision making process on drafting. The Broncos do one of the better jobs in the league with UDFAs.

      Getting a QB since Payton Manning has been an issue but many teams are always looking for the QB. Look at Nick Foles - he has made a lot of money from teams desperately seeking the next starting QB. Setting up for success, the Broncos cannot go into next season with Drew Lock being the only option at QB. They either draft someone high or they bring in a veteran who can push Lock. Getting a veteran like Stafford would mean the Lock experiment is over. Elway did get Manning here so he gets an A for that but he gets an D for since then.

      Free agents - the front office has been not doing well lately. Jackson is a plus, James has been a big minus, Glasgow is neutral to this point, Callahan is a slight minus at this point (too many injuries). Previously he got TJ Ward, Demarcus Ware, Aquib Talib, Emmanuel Sanders, and without those guys there is no SB 50.

      Coaching hires, VJ sticks as a solid F, Fox was a B+, Kubiak won a SB so an A, and I am not sure about Fangio. Firing is not always the answer, IMO. I think Elway needs to sit down with Fangio and talk to him about being more of the head coach and less of the DC. He seems to struggle with overall awareness of the team. This team needs better discipline.

      I would bring everyone back next year except for Tom McMahon - there has to be someone who is better for ST. Shumer has enough NFL experience that I do not believe he is the only issue with the offense - you have a lot of young players starting on offense.

      Denver's Roster - I think the offensive Roster looks pretty good - the line should be solid next year even without James (assuming they get something done with Wilkerson), the receivers and tight ends should be good. Running back they could look to add someone but Gordon and Lindsay are both 1000 yard rushers. QB has to be addressed - Lock has not earned the number one QB nod yet, he is way too inconsistent. My choice would to either bring in a sure starter (Stafford is the only one I see) or draft someone in the first round and move on from Lock. Lacking that I would bring in a veteran to compete with Lock - Jameis Winston would be my choice, he is a better QB than Lock right now and would not cost too much.

      Defense is a major problem. Casey, Bouye most likely will not be back. Bouye could be back with a restructured contract and the same with Callahan. I also don't see them bringing Von Miller back without a major restructuring of his contract. The will need to get Simmons contract done and they need to find help at corner. They also need to look for another edge rusher. If Purcell can come back that will help at DL, they also need to get something done with Shelby Harris - it should not break the bank. They were looking at inside backer last year in the draft and will need to really look for one in this years draft. Jewell is getting better but is no more than a journeyman player.

      Punter and Kicker are solid with Martin and McManus.

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post

        Yes I know, you value his legacy over the team, I get it!

        John the player was great.

        John the executive with Peyton Manning was good.

        They could’ve been great if John allowed Manning and the Coaching staff to do their job, but no, he had to keep interfering.

        John the executive without Peyton Manning=failure!

        John has had five failed seasons on his own, he’s had 5 seasons to prove he can do it with his hand picked staff, hes failed miserably.

        Under John it doesn’t look to be getting better.
        John needs to pack his bags and move on!
        Well you seem to think people are worried about his legacy and are having a hard time figuring out why people would defend Elway more than other people in the Broncos.

        Just thought I would remind you.

        Honestly those numbers speak for themselves but imo nothing can really explain to how Bronco fans in the 80s and 90s feel about just about every Bronco who won the 97 and 98 Super Bowls.

        With all that said...I think even some of the most loyal to Elway are starting to consider what a transition away from Elway would look like.
        Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by Hadez View Post

          Well you seem to think people are worried about his legacy and are having a hard time figuring out why people would defend Elway more than other people in the Broncos.

          Just thought I would remind you.

          Honestly those numbers speak for themselves but imo nothing can really explain to how Bronco fans in the 80s and 90s feel about just about every Bronco who won the 97 and 98 Super Bowls.

          With all that said...I think even some of the most loyal to Elway are starting to consider what a transition away from Elway would look like.
          The sooner more Ppl start to get it, the better.
          Meaning, getting past their fandom. They need to get it already so we can move on. Ultimately it’s about the Denver Broncos not Johns legacy. That time has past and he needs to stop living off the franchise already and move on.

          It’s nothing personal to value the team over him!
          sigpic

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by Bad_Bubba View Post
            I am new here so I don't really know the posters on this board, but I will give my 2 cents on the situation (probably not worth that much). Elway seems to be the popular scape goat in this thread but I think he is a way better than average GM. Look around the NFL, plenty of teams have issues with their FO, there are 4 GMs openings right now and ready to have a couple more. A few years ago everyone thought Howie Roseman with the Eagles was a genius GM - moving up to get Wentz and building a SB champion, now the Eagles don't think Wentz is their guy and they have a total mess with their salary cap. Elway and the FO staff does a great job with the Salary cap (good example is the Bolles contract) which in this day and age is important. They also do a good job not getting too attached to aging veterans, better to let someone go a year early than a year late.

            Elway's drafting has been a problem at times but I think over the past few years they have done a good job of drafting. Letting the coaches make the final decision is a sure fire way to disaster - Dan Reeves, Mike Shanahan were both undone by their GM roles. Early on Elway gave coaches a big say in who we drafted and that is why we ended up with Demarcus Walker and Adam Gotsis - Bill Kollar fell in love with those guys and they were both reaches. I know for a fact they have totally revamped their decision making process on drafting. The Broncos do one of the better jobs in the league with UDFAs.

            Getting a QB since Payton Manning has been an issue but many teams are always looking for the QB. Look at Nick Foles - he has made a lot of money from teams desperately seeking the next starting QB. Setting up for success, the Broncos cannot go into next season with Drew Lock being the only option at QB. They either draft someone high or they bring in a veteran who can push Lock. Getting a veteran like Stafford would mean the Lock experiment is over. Elway did get Manning here so he gets an A for that but he gets an D for since then.

            Free agents - the front office has been not doing well lately. Jackson is a plus, James has been a big minus, Glasgow is neutral to this point, Callahan is a slight minus at this point (too many injuries). Previously he got TJ Ward, Demarcus Ware, Aquib Talib, Emmanuel Sanders, and without those guys there is no SB 50.

            Coaching hires, VJ sticks as a solid F, Fox was a B+, Kubiak won a SB so an A, and I am not sure about Fangio. Firing is not always the answer, IMO. I think Elway needs to sit down with Fangio and talk to him about being more of the head coach and less of the DC. He seems to struggle with overall awareness of the team. This team needs better discipline.

            I would bring everyone back next year except for Tom McMahon - there has to be someone who is better for ST. Shumer has enough NFL experience that I do not believe he is the only issue with the offense - you have a lot of young players starting on offense.

            Denver's Roster - I think the offensive Roster looks pretty good - the line should be solid next year even without James (assuming they get something done with Wilkerson), the receivers and tight ends should be good. Running back they could look to add someone but Gordon and Lindsay are both 1000 yard rushers. QB has to be addressed - Lock has not earned the number one QB nod yet, he is way too inconsistent. My choice would to either bring in a sure starter (Stafford is the only one I see) or draft someone in the first round and move on from Lock. Lacking that I would bring in a veteran to compete with Lock - Jameis Winston would be my choice, he is a better QB than Lock right now and would not cost too much.

            Defense is a major problem. Casey, Bouye most likely will not be back. Bouye could be back with a restructured contract and the same with Callahan. I also don't see them bringing Von Miller back without a major restructuring of his contract. The will need to get Simmons contract done and they need to find help at corner. They also need to look for another edge rusher. If Purcell can come back that will help at DL, they also need to get something done with Shelby Harris - it should not break the bank. They were looking at inside backer last year in the draft and will need to really look for one in this years draft. Jewell is getting better but is no more than a journeyman player.

            Punter and Kicker are solid with Martin and McManus.
            We agree on many points, with a few exceptions, like the bolded part.

            Elway already attempted the veteran QB route with Flacco for potentially 3 years.
            Ideally, Flacco would have finished last year and started this covid-year in Denver.
            Instead, he was cut and now sits behind Darnold under a 1-year, 1.5M contract.

            I believe Elway will continue to build Lock a potent offense through the draft by selecting
            OT early and often, perhaps trade up for Sewell in R1.

            If not, RT Mayfield in round 2, followed by OT Little (Bolles eventual replacement) in round 3.

            I feel like all chips are on Lock unless Aaron Rodgers becomes available.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Bad_Bubba View Post
              I am new here so I don't really know the posters on this board, but I will give my 2 cents on the situation ...
              I set my bar not with the teams doing badly, but with the quality and performance of the Bowlen Broncos.

              Comment

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