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Justin Simmons- Questions

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  • Gbt31
    replied
    Originally posted by mozzerpete View Post

    What's your best-case tag-trade scenario?
    I honestly have no idea, but as has been brought up in thread, we CAN afford him....but it probably isn't in our best interest financially. I think the best trade compensation scenario, most comparable to his position/age would be Darius Slay last year who went for a 3rd and 5th. I think there would be a team that would either go 3rd and 4th or a 2nd straight up. My dream scenario would be to trade him and our 9th and move up to secure Parsons or Sewell if possible...but it is still REALLY early.

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  • mozzerpete
    replied
    Originally posted by Gbt31 View Post
    Tag him and trade him.
    What's your best-case tag-trade scenario?

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  • johnlimburg
    replied
    When Simmons walks he will sign a contract large enough that gives us a 3rd round comp pick anyway, and teams will know that. I doubt anyone offers more than a third-rounder for him, and I would say that a team would be willing to call Denvers bluff and just wait for him to walk or hit the open market so they don't have to give up anything along with the money. Hoping for a first-rounder or anything high like that is unrealistic in my opinion.

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  • Gbt31
    replied
    Tag him and trade him.

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  • beastlyskronk
    replied
    Originally posted by Diggs4 View Post

    My issue is, Simmons has too many games like he did tonight. He's basically MIA for the majority of the game, then catches a break with birthday interception that had ZERO to do with his will to make a play, or effort, he just happened to be where the ball got tipped. The opposite of Kareem Jackson's pick.

    I appreciate your willingness to dig into some stats, but it's not about stats, it's about his lack of impact. FANGIO doesn't put a lot on his position, therefore, we shouldn't pay the dude like he's Jamal Adams...

    We can plug in a lot of cheaper guys to play quarters, or the deep middle in cover 3, and I'm sure they might also walk themselves into a few birthday picks...
    That’s the issue though, it doesn’t take a lot of talent to play quarters coverage, but it also results in very little turnovers. Sure we can put anyone back there, but that doesn’t solve the lack of identity on the defense. Simmons absolutely could be a piece of that identity but until we get an ILB that can actually cover as well as some CBs we will continue to have these issues.

    Simmons is good, possibly even great but he’s being hamstrung by a system that is being played to cover the deficiencies of the rest of the defense. Same thing with Kareem Jackson.

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  • Diggs4
    replied
    Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

    James can’t stay healthy, Fitzpatrick is the only guy you listed with the same amount of INTs. Byard is the only one that has a lower missed tackle percentage than Simmons, well Baker is .3% lower but that’s hardly a difference and Fitzpatrick is .2% higher.
    My issue is, Simmons has too many games like he did tonight. He's basically MIA for the majority of the game, then catches a break with birthday interception that had ZERO to do with his will to make a play, or effort, he just happened to be where the ball got tipped. The opposite of Kareem Jackson's pick.

    I appreciate your willingness to dig into some stats, but it's not about stats, it's about his lack of impact. FANGIO doesn't put a lot on his position, therefore, we shouldn't pay the dude like he's Jamal Adams...

    We can plug in a lot of cheaper guys to play quarters, or the deep middle in cover 3, and I'm sure they might also walk themselves into a few birthday picks...

    Leave a comment:


  • beastlyskronk
    replied
    Originally posted by Diggs4 View Post

    Sure, in no particular order, guys I'd rather pay if given the chance.
    Minkah Fitzpatrick, Derwin James, Budda Baker, kevin byard, etc.

    In Fangio's scheme, the "left safety" isnt asked to do a whole lot. He isnt a strong safety, moved all over the field used like a swiss army knife. He isnt a ball hawking center fielding Free Saftey...

    I'm opposed to over pay a payer who has the lack of impact he has.
    James can’t stay healthy, Fitzpatrick is the only guy you listed with the same amount of INTs. Byard is the only one that has a lower missed tackle percentage than Simmons, well Baker is .3% lower but that’s hardly a difference and Fitzpatrick is .2% higher.

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  • Diggs4
    replied
    Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

    Not even close? I’m curious to see what your list of top safeties looks like
    Sure, in no particular order, guys I'd rather pay if given the chance.
    Minkah Fitzpatrick, Derwin James, Budda Baker, kevin byard, etc.

    In Fangio's scheme, the "left safety" isnt asked to do a whole lot. He isnt a strong safety, moved all over the field used like a swiss army knife. He isnt a ball hawking center fielding Free Saftey...

    I'm opposed to over pay a payer who has the lack of impact he has.

    Leave a comment:


  • beastlyskronk
    replied
    Originally posted by Diggs4 View Post
    Glad to see this post, as I was scared to voice these opinions myself.

    Great guy, average safety. His play does not warrant top 5 safety pay, not even close. If you want top 3 money as a safety, you better play like your hair is on fire.

    He plays left safety in a system that doesn't ask him to do a whole lot. It's been nice, but time to move on.
    Not even close? I’m curious to see what your list of top safeties looks like

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  • Sam_Z
    replied
    Originally posted by Champ>NFL View Post
    You guys keep getting rid of players that learned how to do it right from the No Fly Zone. This is why we can’t win
    OOH Blah! He’s playing in fangios zone dude. A style of defense that fits him.
    The no fly zone was a completely different style.

    Simmons is one of the good guys but we Do not need to overpay for him especially in a year when the salary cap Is expected to drop.
    Last edited by Sam_Z; 01-02-2021, 11:17 PM.

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  • Diggs4
    replied
    Glad to see this post, as I was scared to voice these opinions myself.

    Great guy, average safety. His play does not warrant top 5 safety pay, not even close. If you want top 3 money as a safety, you better play like your hair is on fire.

    He plays left safety in a system that doesn't ask him to do a whole lot. It's been nice, but time to move on.

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  • Champ>NFL
    replied
    You guys keep getting rid of players that learned how to do it right from the No Fly Zone. This is why we can’t win

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  • johnlimburg
    replied
    It is a fair argument to use his All-Pro status in back to back years as evidence of him being "great", but what do we see him do great ? I don't respect the Pro Football Focus player rating system, it is seriously flawed and often not aligned to the NFL transaction wire, but that is a whole other argument. But what does Simmons do at an All-Pro level ? I have watched every game of his career, and in 2019 he was very good, but even this year for the first half of the season he was not good, and he reverted back to the inconsistent open field miss tackler he was throughout his earlier years, I don't see it.

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  • Bad_Bubba
    replied
    Originally posted by Rich_C View Post

    OK....the issue is not that Simmons cannot be a great player. In fact generally in pass pro he is above avg. The issue is that Simmons is not a great fit for how Fangio plays defense. If we can all be honest here Fangio has shown that for the most part he has our defense playing pretty well.

    so one of two things needs to happen. Fangio needs to adapt to avoid having Simmons tackle TEs and RBs in open fields by altering how we play D. Alternativley the other option is we move on.
    That is your opinion but I disagree with you. Justin Simmons was one of the highest rated safeties the last two years in Fangio's defense. He made All Pro in Fangio's defense. I do not know how you can make the argument that he is not a fit in this defense. He leads the team in Solo tackles.

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  • Rich_C
    replied
    Originally posted by Bad_Bubba View Post
    The Broncos need to pay Simmons, He is one of the best safeties in the league. I expect Von Miller will not be back and you need to build your defense around Simmons. Elway knows that he will be vilified if he lets top players keep walking.
    OK....the issue is not that Simmons cannot be a great player. In fact generally in pass pro he is above avg. The issue is that Simmons is not a great fit for how Fangio plays defense. If we can all be honest here Fangio has shown that for the most part he has our defense playing pretty well.

    so one of two things needs to happen. Fangio needs to adapt to avoid having Simmons tackle TEs and RBs in open fields by altering how we play D. Alternativley the other option is we move on.

    Leave a comment:

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