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  • #31
    Originally posted by DiveInstructor View Post

    And they're smart for doing that. Let's not forget that the Broncos rank 28th in the league for scoring, while the Saints rank 4th. Nothing the Broncos would've done with Lock at QB could change the outcome. Add that the Broncos being stupid enough to put themselves in that situation.

    The "reasons" for the failures of the Broncos are really excuses. This is a poorly ran team. And all of it can be blamed on those in charge.
    I disagree, Payton admitted he went run heavy because of our QB situation. With a QB, they don’t go so run heavy and Taysom Hill was not going to put up 31 the way he was throwing the ball, more likely he spots us 31 from the sacks and poor passes.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

      I disagree, Payton admitted he went run heavy because of our QB situation. With a QB, they don’t go so run heavy and Taysom Hill was not going to put up 31 the way he was throwing the ball, more likely he spots us 31 from the sacks and poor passes.
      In the other 3 games he played during that time, the Saints put up 24, 21, and 21 points. The Broncos average was 20, including Lock's contributions. The Saints defense allowed on average 21 points per game, and the Broncos averaged allowing 28. All stats point to the Saints winning that game, with or without Lock, and with Hill at Saints QB.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by DiveInstructor View Post

        In the other 3 games he played during that time, the Saints put up 24, 21, and 21 points. The Broncos average was 20, including Lock's contributions. The Saints defense allowed on average 21 points per game, and the Broncos averaged allowing 28. All stats point to the Saints winning that game, with or without Lock, and with Hill at Saints QB.
        Those were his stats against other teams, what did Hill do when asked to pass against the Broncos? He was 9/16 for 78 yards (44 of which came off 2 passes), 1 INT and he took 3 sacks one of which he fumbled on. If he was asked to pass more, then those numbers would have been much worse. The defense would not have collapsed as early as it did with an actual QB that can sustain a drive and the Saints wouldn’t have had nearly as much success running the ball. On the Saints 3 long TD drives, they passed 4 times out of 32 plays for 29 yards, 20 of which came on 1 play. And the first drive would have been a 3 and out had Jones not jumped offsides on 4th down because they wouldn’t go for it on their own 35 if we had a QB. Add in the 10 points that were essentially gifted to them from an INT and a fumbled snap from Lindsay/Cushenberry and there’s just no way I see Taysom Hill being able to beat us with an actual QB.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by WYBRONCO View Post

          I see your point and I disagree. Philadelphia or any organization still has to look the rest of the team in the eye and say, yep we tanked because we don't believe in you. "We don't care about trying to win a football more than 4 draft positions." We don't want to see if our future QB can lead us to a victory for the experience of when next year, when games "matter" that he can say I more confidence because I have been there before. Philadelphia isn't 1 player away from the next huge super bowl push. They aren't going to take a Franchise QB at 6. They most certainly can get a very solid CB/WR/OL at 10.

          Look it is one way to look at it, Denver has a better draft pick after this loss too. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth to tell overpaid athletes, compete your butts off, but tank when it suits us. I wouldn't tell Pee Wee, Middle School, HS, or College athletes that.
          You are acting like they have been trying to tank the season for the better draft pick. It was literally for two quarters. Outside of that they have been trying to win and trying to put their team in the best position to win. Two quarters doesn’t tell the team “ we don’t believe in you”. I think the team already knows they aren’t a good team and they know the front office/HC is thinking about the teams future to help get them better in the short and long term. If I’m a player I can see the bigger picture vs winning a meaningless game that gains you literally nothing.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

            Those were his stats against other teams, what did Hill do when asked to pass against the Broncos? He was 9/16 for 78 yards (44 of which came off 2 passes), 1 INT and he took 3 sacks one of which he fumbled on. If he was asked to pass more, then those numbers would have been much worse. The defense would not have collapsed as early as it did with an actual QB that can sustain a drive and the Saints wouldn’t have had nearly as much success running the ball. On the Saints 3 long TD drives, they passed 4 times out of 32 plays for 29 yards, 20 of which came on 1 play. And the first drive would have been a 3 and out had Jones not jumped offsides on 4th down because they wouldn’t go for it on their own 35 if we had a QB. Add in the 10 points that were essentially gifted to them from an INT and a fumbled snap from Lindsay/Cushenberry and there’s just no way I see Taysom Hill being able to beat us with an actual QB.
            All pure speculation. What we do know is that the Broncos mismanaged their own players and paid the price. We know the Saints are a playoff team, even while playing Hill. We know the Broncos still have a losing record with Lock behind center. Assuming different outcomes based on a game situation that didn't exist sounds a lot like hope, and nothing more. COVID wasn't the problem with the Broncos. The Broncos are the problem with the Broncos. They showed the same junk last year and the 3 prior years, all without COVID. COVID is just an excuse for teams that aren't good.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by MrMax View Post
              Not their fault, no off season practice, injuries, and covid stole their season.

              COVID affected all teams, not just the Broncos.

              I was being sarcastic, that basically what Fangio said.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by DiveInstructor View Post

                All pure speculation. What we do know is that the Broncos mismanaged their own players and paid the price. We know the Saints are a playoff team, even while playing Hill. We know the Broncos still have a losing record with Lock behind center. Assuming different outcomes based on a game situation that didn't exist sounds a lot like hope, and nothing more. COVID wasn't the problem with the Broncos. The Broncos are the problem with the Broncos. They showed the same junk last year and the 3 prior years, all without COVID. COVID is just an excuse for teams that aren't good.
                Your assumption that the saints would have beaten the broncos with Lock is also pure speculation. Had they been forced to throw the ball more with a sub par quarterback could have easily turned into a different game. Speculation sure, but you can't have it both ways.

                I'm not saying the broncos would have been a good team without Covid, my point is the broncos were MORE affected than any other team. And don't hand me the BS about it being all the broncos fault.. the bye week was lost and 5 games reshuffled because of an outbreak within the patriots organization.

                So maybe stop calling everyone else's arguments or comments speculation when you're doing exactly the same thing.

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                • #38
                  I hope things never get to a point where fans are cheering for a loss the way that Jacksonville fans were. The season didn't go how anybody expected from the front office, the staff, the team, fans, media, everybody. We can all choose to go through two paths this offseason. We can hold onto excitement for what we have seen from this team when they are fully healthy, and have hope that some of the young talent continues to improve or we can all choose to be miserable!

                  Despite the results and the losing season, the experiences shouldn't have to be miserable! Looking forward to interacting with all of you this off-season.
                  Twitter: @CodyRoarkNFL Youtube: CodyRoarkNFL

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Skylan View Post

                    Your assumption that the saints would have beaten the broncos with Lock is also pure speculation. Had they been forced to throw the ball more with a sub par quarterback could have easily turned into a different game. Speculation sure, but you can't have it both ways.

                    I'm not saying the broncos would have been a good team without Covid, my point is the broncos were MORE affected than any other team. ...

                    My assumption about that game is that the better team would've still beaten the lousy team. Odds are that would hold true, not some upset. And, COVID "affects" the Broncos because they aren't a well ran and well prepared organization. The root cause of the Broncos failures is the Broncos, not COVID. 3 previous losing seasons without COVID proves that. This 4th losing season is simply the new Broncos.
                    Last edited by DiveInstructor; 01-05-2021, 07:52 AM.

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                    • #40
                      I am still a little skeptical of our "Defensive Mastermind" head coach.
                      I'm not sure if we were in the playoffs or the Super Bowl, that our coaching staff could get the job done. I have a feeling they would blow it.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

                        I disagree, Payton admitted he went run heavy because of our QB situation. With a QB, they don’t go so run heavy and Taysom Hill was not going to put up 31 the way he was throwing the ball, more likely he spots us 31 from the sacks and poor passes.
                        I have no idea why you guys are even arguing about this, it was 1 game, what about the other 10 losses? So what if they had won the Saints game, they finish 6-10 instead, is that really any better? Sans the Saints game this year was still a complete disaster, one of the worst Broncos seasons going all the way to the 1970’s.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by MrMax View Post
                          Not their fault, no off season practice, injuries, and covid stole their season.
                          I think this is why we do not blow things up. Not sure if I have ever seen a team hit this hard with injuries....add in Covid missed games...hard to pass judgement for me.

                          Personally I do not think Shurmur has the ability to make an offense that can hold onto the ball. 4 of his last 6 offenses as HC or OC have been bottom 3 in turnovers...2 dead last. Ints have been a real problem with Shurmur offenses. Suppose history has shown lucky things can happen. Realize other posters feel even more strongly about other people remaining Broncos.

                          Do think by getting a new GM the writing is on the wall....if we lose again in 2021 things will be blown up. For now these coaches and most of these players get another shot at it.
                          Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Hadez View Post

                            I think this is why we do not blow things up. Not sure if I have ever seen a team hit this hard with injuries....add in Covid missed games...hard to pass judgement for me.

                            Personally I do not think Shurmur has the ability to make an offense that can hold onto the ball. 4 of his last 6 offenses as HC or OC have been bottom 3 in turnovers...2 dead last. Ints have been a real problem with Shurmur offenses. Suppose history has shown lucky things can happen. Realize other posters feel even more strongly about other people remaining Broncos.

                            Do think by getting a new GM the writing is on the wall....if we lose again in 2021 things will be blown up. For now these coaches and most of these players get another shot at it.
                            I don't think that is fair. The last 2 quarterbacks he has had are useless at holding onto the ball. Drew Lock has that gun slinger mentality with basic ability to read defenses, and Daniel Jones has zero pocket awareness which led to his record setting fumble issues.

                            All teams had the same disrupted routine as well so I don't put heaps of stock into that, but I agree you don't blow it up, just yet. I think as you said we are right on the borderline of blowing it up though, but I don't think you bother with Elway still being in the building, he needs to be gone for that process to start.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by johnlimburg View Post

                              I don't think that is fair. The last 2 quarterbacks he has had are useless at holding onto the ball. Drew Lock has that gun slinger mentality with basic ability to read defenses, and Daniel Jones has zero pocket awareness which led to his record setting fumble issues.

                              All teams had the same disrupted routine as well so I don't put heaps of stock into that, but I agree you don't blow it up, just yet. I think as you said we are right on the borderline of blowing it up though, but I don't think you bother with Elway still being in the building, he needs to be gone for that process to start.
                              I get some posters would be happy if Elway was gone forever for whatever reason. Pat Bowlen helped school Elway on how to run a sports franchise. Elway will allow the GM to be the final decision maker just as much as Pat Bowlen allowed his football people to do the same over the years while the Broncos produced a lot of playoffs and during the free agency era of the NFL.
                              Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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                              • #45
                                Every team dealt with covid but no off season for Rodgers or drew brees who have been in the league are effected way differently than one of the youngest teams in the league. Established teams like the chiefs little to no effect. Heck Rodgers has said multiple times on the Pat McAfee show that his body has never felt better partially because of the shortened offseason. So it was a benefit. Bottom line is Lock still isnt reading defenses the games still too fast for him and the only way to get better is reps and an offseason to study your own film and get rapport with your receivers. This being said I think his ceiling is a poor man's Jay Cutler. And no I'm not ok with that but they dont just give QBs a way. What are our options trask or Wilson with our first? Stafford? If it werent for injuries I would like to give Stafford a shot but hes always hurt.

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