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What This Super Bowl Taught Us Again...

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  • What This Super Bowl Taught Us Again...

    We've seen it in the 2 time the Giants beat the Patriots, we saw it first hand when the Seahawks beat Denver and when Denver beat Carolina. And we saw it again tonight, when you can rush the passer with 4 and win the line of scrimmage on defense you can dominate against high powered offences. Rushing 4, and getting to the QB allows you to do creative things in coverage, and it allows you to slow down receiving threats.

    Yes Denver needs better play from the QB position and it's offense. But if Denver wants to compete with and beat KC, the Chargers (when they get serious and hire a real Head Coach), and the Raiders (who want to beat you up on the line) they need to get a defensive line that can get to the passer and stop the run consistently.

  • #2
    It taught me that Brady=superbowls no matter his age. Forget watson let's trade for Brady

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    • #3
      What I learned from the Super Bowl:

      The Chiefs still suck....

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
        We've seen it in the 2 time the Giants beat the Patriots, we saw it first hand when the Seahawks beat Denver and when Denver beat Carolina. And we saw it again tonight, when you can rush the passer with 4 and win the line of scrimmage on defense you can dominate against high powered offences. Rushing 4, and getting to the QB allows you to do creative things in coverage, and it allows you to slow down receiving threats.

        Yes Denver needs better play from the QB position and it's offense. But if Denver wants to compete with and beat KC, the Chargers (when they get serious and hire a real Head Coach), and the Raiders (who want to beat you up on the line) they need to get a defensive line that can get to the passer and stop the run consistently.
        defense has always won ships. our Defense actually did well pressuring the QB. stoping the run though was very questionable especially after Purcell went down.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by Kyousukeneko View Post

          defense has always won ships. our Defense actually did well pressuring the QB. stoping the run though was very questionable especially after Purcell went down.
          But Denver didn't do as well rushing the QB with just 4, they usually needed to send an extra player or two to get that pressure. If you can get home rushing 4, it changes the game completely.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post

            But Denver didn't do as well rushing the QB with just 4, they usually needed to send an extra player or two to get that pressure. If you can get home rushing 4, it changes the game completely.
            we where still top ten in sacks, and had a good chunk of them. 42 sacks in 16 games is not bad numbers at all.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by Kyousukeneko View Post

              we where still top ten in sacks, and had a good chunk of them. 42 sacks in 16 games is not bad numbers at all.
              But you're missing the point. When you can get pressure with 4 it allows you to drop 7 in coverage and deal with the weapons that teams like the Chefs have with greater numbers. When you have to bring 5 or 6 in order to generate pressure you only have 5 or 6 in coverage, which greatly decreases what you can do in coverage against those weapons. And when you can generate the pressure with just 4 it allows you to deal better with the QB running, although Mahomes did gain yardage tonight, it wasn't really long runs. When you bring 5 or 6 and the QB breaks contain it can lead to long QB runs because the 5 or 6 guys you have in coverage need to turn and run with their guys.

              Lets look at some of the greatest offences in NFL history:
              2001 Rams, the Patriots stopped them by rushing 3 consistently and dropping 8 into coverage
              2008 Patriots, the Giants beat them by getting to the QB with just 4
              2013 Broncos, the Seahawks beat them up rushing 4 players consistently
              2020 Chefs, the Bucs beat them up by rushing just 4

              So looking at the sack numbers as a total may look impressive, but it's not about that number alone, it's about how you get them. When you can only get them by bringing extra numbers, you're stuck with a very limited number of coverages you can play, mostly cover 1 and cover 0. When you can get to the QB by bringing just 4 you can continually roll through every single coverage, and you can constantly make the QB work to identify it, while the pocket collapses on him.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post

                But you're missing the point. When you can get pressure with 4 it allows you to drop 7 in coverage and deal with the weapons that teams like the Chefs have with greater numbers. When you have to bring 5 or 6 in order to generate pressure you only have 5 or 6 in coverage, which greatly decreases what you can do in coverage against those weapons. And when you can generate the pressure with just 4 it allows you to deal better with the QB running, although Mahomes did gain yardage tonight, it wasn't really long runs. When you bring 5 or 6 and the QB breaks contain it can lead to long QB runs because the 5 or 6 guys you have in coverage need to turn and run with their guys.

                Lets look at some of the greatest offences in NFL history:
                2001 Rams, the Patriots stopped them by rushing 3 consistently and dropping 8 into coverage
                2008 Patriots, the Giants beat them by getting to the QB with just 4
                2013 Broncos, the Seahawks beat them up rushing 4 players consistently
                2020 Chefs, the Bucs beat them up by rushing just 4

                So looking at the sack numbers as a total may look impressive, but it's not about that number alone, it's about how you get them. When you can only get them by bringing extra numbers, you're stuck with a very limited number of coverages you can play, mostly cover 1 and cover 0. When you can get to the QB by bringing just 4 you can continually roll through every single coverage, and you can constantly make the QB work to identify it, while the pocket collapses on him.
                we where also missing harris for a few games Casey most the year Miller all the year and Purcell most the year. so having the scheme up pressure makes a bit of sense. the way to stop the chiefs you have to double Hill, make sure you have 2 deep safetys 1 whos job is just to double hill and get pressure with your front four.

                i think that A the Bucs have hit on 3 good CBs recently which really helped them in DAvis, Murphy bunting and Dean. and on the dline

                Suh=harris
                Chubb=barrett/jpp
                Attachou or reed is way worst then the other
                and Vita Vea>Purcell or any other nT we had in place. i also they think they are alot faster at the ILB which really helped them in coverage.
                Last edited by Kyousukeneko; 02-07-2021, 10:37 PM.
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Broncoted30 View Post
                  What I learned from the Super Bowl:

                  The Chiefs still suck....
                  Some really interesting discussion and insight here, but this post made me spit out my coffee I was laughing so hard

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                  • #10
                    Fix the quarterback position first.

                    I do agree that it is best to have a defense that can rely on a four man pass rush.
                    My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
                    You Mad Bro?
                    Don’t Be A Mean Girl

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                    • #11
                      It taught a lot of things, especially that it's not just that you can rush the QB. That's truly myopic. It should be noted that the Broncos are about a 50/50 split at spending on their defense and offense. The Bucs spend about 75% of their money on offense and 25% on defense.

                      First, it's a team sport, so there are many ways to win, but you need a team set up to do it. It requires a staff that truly knows how to plan a team, prioritize the pieces, get those right players at the right price, and coach and prepare those players and a team for an opponent. S**t rolls downhill, and if you don't have a lot of crap in the front office and coaches, you have less on the field.

                      More often than not, it requires a great player/manager at the QB position. It requires both offense and defense. It requires players that are hungry and not necessarily the fastest guys on the field. It requires discipline.

                      Can't just cherry pick one thing. We can say that if you can do all of the above, you'll likely dominate, even when the experts say you shouldn't.

                      And, unfortunately, it also taught us that the Broncos are a long, long way from being that team. All they have are a few young players with "talent" with a poor front office and junk for coaches/coordinators. That's nowhere near the formula for domination. But they have those pass rushers....lol....
                      Last edited by DiveInstructor; 02-08-2021, 06:02 AM.

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                      • #12
                        Agreed about dline. This SB was a reminder that no QB is immune from pressure, no matter how great they are. I bet Mahomes wishes he had Brady’s oline last night. As it applies to the Broncos, my takeaway was invest in both lines, speed at LB and CB.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DiveInstructor View Post
                          It taught a lot of things, especially that it's not just that you can rush the QB. That's truly myopic. It should be noted that the Broncos are about a 50/50 split at spending on their defense and offense. The Bucs spend about 75% of their money on offense and 25% on defense.

                          First, it's a team sport, so there are many ways to win, but you need a team set up to do it. It requires a staff that truly knows how to plan a team, prioritize the pieces, get those right players at the right price, and coach and prepare those players and a team for an opponent. S**t rolls downhill, and if you don't have a lot of crap in the front office and coaches, you have less on the field.

                          More often than not, it requires a great player/manager at the QB position. It requires both offense and defense. It requires players that are hungry and not necessarily the fastest guys on the field. It requires discipline.

                          Can't just cherry pick one thing. We can say that if you can do all of the above, you'll likely dominate, even when the experts say you shouldn't.

                          And, unfortunately, it also taught us that the Broncos are a long, long way from being that team. All they have are a few young players with "talent" with a poor front office and junk for coaches/coordinators. That's nowhere near the formula for domination. But they have those pass rushers....lol....
                          Good post and I agree with most, but not that we are a long, long way from the goals.
                          What we actually have is a lot of players with ability to dominate on defense, but we lack the motor. We lack the shutdown corners we had up to 2016. We have a great core of players, and there is nothing that Tom Brady did with the Bucks that he couldn't have done for us.

                          Our history has shown us that defense goes where the offense takes them. They bled orange with Elway, with Plummer, with Tebow, and with 2015 Manning, whereas the 2012-13 teams pretty much had the defenses along for the ride. The thing is that our defense needs a reason to play well, but we have the skills. We can beat Chiefs if we can cover TE and WR at the same time.
                          Get a Plummer level QB without giving up a ton and we are right there!

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                          • #14
                            Meh, that same Bucs team had Mahomes and Hill light em up for 200 yards and 2 TD's in a quarter 2 months ago. Sometimes your scheme beats the other teams' scheme. The Chiefs came in with a lot of hubris and just assumed they would be able to score at will. And they didn't adjust at all to what the Bucs threw at them. What it taught me is that you better be able to adjust real quick and counter. The Chiefs refused to do that, and Mahomes was running backwards all night...and it was glorious.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
                              We've seen it in the 2 time the Giants beat the Patriots, we saw it first hand when the Seahawks beat Denver and when Denver beat Carolina. And we saw it again tonight, when you can rush the passer with 4 and win the line of scrimmage on defense you can dominate against high powered offences. Rushing 4, and getting to the QB allows you to do creative things in coverage, and it allows you to slow down receiving threats.

                              Yes Denver needs better play from the QB position and it's offense. But if Denver wants to compete with and beat KC, the Chargers (when they get serious and hire a real Head Coach), and the Raiders (who want to beat you up on the line) they need to get a defensive line that can get to the passer and stop the run consistently.

                              I was watching ESPN Get Up this morning and they mentioned the Chiefs O-line was missing 3 starters that "helped" the Buc's front 4 put incredible pressure on Mahomes.

                              I realize all teams have to deal with "injuries" but is the back-up O-line players for the Chiefs that bad that the Buc's defense didn't need to "blitz"....really?
                              Utah Bronco Freak

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