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  • #16
    Originally posted by rst08tierney View Post
    Locks out if Patton can grab Rodgers but those were all nice thoughts
    Well.....I can't argue that one

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    • #17
      Yeah, after this draft...I'm fully on board the George Paton train. He is the four star General we need leading us to victory.
      New England Patriots GM

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Hadez View Post
        I hope people do not get too caught up in the Broncos not doing what each fan or media thought the Broncos should do.

        The Broncos have a plan and seem to be executing it. It seems to be a team of people where Paton is leading the team. Scouts and coaches working with Paton leading the team.

        We will not know until the games are being played what the plan is. Between now and then coaches need to work on getting players ready. Scouts need to work on getting the coaches ready for opponents. Lot still needs to happen before we know if this was a good plan and how well it was executed in free agency and the draft.

        Football is one of the most ultimate team sports. It is easy for fans and media to focus on one position but teams win because of team efforts. It is why some really good players had zero or very few Super Bowl appearances.
        I agree with you and Skeeter. This forum is all about opinions which also equates to a ton of guessing based on many things. However, so many members here have their crystal ball sitting on the coffee table 24-7 and they are positive they absolutely know how everything is going to pan out for the Broncos in 2021. Nope, they don't know. As the season unfolds there will be opinions and guessing that will end up being true and some that end up incorrect.

        Paton is the new kid on the block and the Broncos are a much different team from 2020. I find it astonishing that so many members here have judged him already to be on the negative side of the fence. I'm on the fence waiting for some on the field action for the greater percentage of the season before I start condemning or praising where the Bronco organization will be in late December 2021, because nobody truly knows.

        My opinion is we are fortunate to have Paton and the current and new players on the team and the future has quality promise for the Denver fan base. Please put your crystal ball back in the closet or better yet sell it in your next yard sale to see if you can get some sucker to buy it.

        Utah Bronco Freak

        Comment


        • #19
          Word is, Green Bay has to hang on to Aaron until June for cap reasons, I think the fix is already in.

          Paton is a genius so far...
          [sigpic

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by rst08tierney View Post

            Nothings changed with Lock since Missouri. He acted like a clown on the field and choked at the most critical moments.

            His number one knock draft day from the experts was he needed to mature on the field and this should have happened the day he was drafted. Personally im tired of all the Drew Lock excuses and I believe Patton is too. Hes just not the guy!

            Bridgewater will be the starter this year unless Rodgers lands in Denver.
            I too am tired of the excuses and the bloated overstatement of what Lock is.
            The job of the QB is to lead the team to victory, irrespecitve of personal stats and whether it looks ugly. I much prefer an Alex Smith like 5-1 W/L rate than Lock that was likely statistically superiour in all the non relevant stats.
            The perfection formula for winning under Manning is not something we are likely to see again in Denver, but I would really like to see the intensity that we had with Elway, Plummer and Tebow and see the team respond. Lock has the physical traits to be great - it is the heart and mind he has to bring, and I hope that Bridgewater will be the threat that will make him produce. I just want to split every year with KC, SD (oops LAC) and the Raiders. It is plausible but not a 50/50 chance at this moment.

            Comment


            • #21
              Personally, I still believe there's a strong chance that Lock will improve this year. I can understand those that think that he can't or won't, and why the situation would be extremely frustrating for them.

              I really can't think of any moves the FO has made this year that I'm not a fan of (Well, Lindsay, but the writing was on the wall when the Jano and the old system were both kicked out. Sad, but also before Paton)

              I'm very glad that my views seem to line up with the FO on Lock... They've kicked the tires on options that would be clear upgrades, but are willing to give Lock a final chance... and if it doesn't work out, we have Bridgewater now who can possibly game manage us into the playoffs (though I think this is underselling how well he could potentially do here, reunited with Shurmer).

              Yeah, if we end up getting a shot at Rodgers, we take it for sure. If not... I still think this team can compete, even in the division we're in.

              The wait is the hardest part, but it's what makes it so much sweeter.

              Thanks, Reid!
              sigpic
              Click on my sig to read JetRazor's and my story. Or PM me with any questions.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Taos_Broncomaniac View Post
                Word is, Green Bay has to hang on to Aaron until June for cap reasons, I think the fix is already in.

                Paton is a genius so far...
                I am going to ask a question on this on the Rodgers thread. The Paton thread will have enough ways to go.
                Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by LordTrychon View Post
                  Personally, I still believe there's a strong chance that Lock will improve this year. I can understand those that think that he can't or won't, and why the situation would be extremely frustrating for them.

                  I really can't think of any moves the FO has made this year that I'm not a fan of (Well, Lindsay, but the writing was on the wall when the Jano and the old system were both kicked out. Sad, but also before Paton)

                  I'm very glad that my views seem to line up with the FO on Lock... They've kicked the tires on options that would be clear upgrades, but are willing to give Lock a final chance... and if it doesn't work out, we have Bridgewater now who can possibly game manage us into the playoffs (though I think this is underselling how well he could potentially do here, reunited with Shurmer).

                  Yeah, if we end up getting a shot at Rodgers, we take it for sure. If not... I still think this team can compete, even in the division we're in.

                  The wait is the hardest part, but it's what makes it so much sweeter.

                  Pretty much where I'm at as well, the three pics so far would benefit any of the possible QB's that might be under center this year.

                  And the team!

                  [sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I see a lot on here urging people not to judge the decisions of the front office, to have patience, that we should give Lock a chance.

                    I hear what you all are saying, and like I’ve said in other posts, Paton is doing some good things and there’s reason to believe he has a good head about him, but my point is this particular decision in the first round makes no sense. We now have trusted this front office for the past five years and the product put out by them was just bad. Nowhere else has this been more painfully evident than the performance of the quarterback room. Now they’ve apparently put together a plan that includes rolling with Lock who, no matter how you cut it, was not good enough last year and fell below expectations and Teddy B who most experts consider a backup level talent at this point. We’ve had chances during that time to draft quarterback talent in the first round and we passed and our quarterback play continued to be bad. And it just happened again. Does that make sense? Should that make us feel good about the direction this is headed?

                    Now when you are in that situation, with that history having played out, you pass on first round quarterback talent, top ten quarterback talent, and the only explanations are that you “feel good about our quarterback room” and that “the acquisition of Bridgewater made us feel good about not going with Fields” and that is what you are offering up to fans? Can you understand why that wouldn’t sit well with the fan base? Why it shouldn’t? It’s the approach that Cleveland, Washington and Detroit take with their organizations. If it makes sense to do this, then (Paton) explain it in a way that makes sense. I haven’t heard that yet and I doubt any of you have either.

                    Do you need me to list the names of our past starting quarterbacks and the same sentiments that have been said about them despite large evidence to the contrary? Sanchez? Flacco? Siemien? Keenum? C’mon. Fool me once... I’ll eat crow right now if ANYONE can produce a shred of evidence that either of these quarterbacks is franchise talent. I don’t think anyone can because the game evidence isn’t there. You’re rolling with a quarterback who was one of the worst in terms of performance among starters in the league last season and someone who another team thought was worth a sixth round draft choice and that team was still willing to pay the majority of their salary. That’s what this strategy is based on. It’s based on wishful thinking and optimistic projection. It’s playing the lottery for your retirement plan.

                    Hey, I’ll be the loudest one cheering if Lock turns into a franchise quarterback, don’t get me wrong, but you also can’t be stupid as an organization and not hedge your bets with the most vital and important position in football. You have to keep accumulating talent at the quarterback position from high yield areas (like a top ten draft choice) until you have an established solution there. From a stats projective, it’s a bad gamble to think that our quarterback room is going to work out (based on their stats and historical precedents) and that one of these top ten talents wouldn’t have given you some insurance or put you in a better situation.
                    Last edited by Humberg; 05-01-2021, 09:12 AM.
                    To permit irresponsible authority is to sell disaster. (Heinlein)...like Broncos season tickets!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Humberg View Post
                      I see a lot on here urging people not to judge the decisions of the front office, to have patience, that we should give Lock a chance.

                      I hear what you all are saying, and like I’ve said in other posts, Paton is doing some good things and there’s reason to believe he has a good head about him, but my point is this particular decision in the first round makes no sense. We now have trusted this front office for the past five years and the product put out by them was just bad. Nowhere else has this been more painfully evident than the performance of the quarterback room. Now they’ve apparently put together a plan that includes rolling with Lock who, no matter how you cut it, was not good enough last year and fell below expectations and Teddy B who most experts consider a backup level talent at this point. We’ve had chances during that time to draft quarterback talent in the first round and we passed and our quarterback play continued to be bad. And it just happened again. Does that make sense? Should that make us feel good about the direction this is headed?

                      Now when you are in that situation, with that history having played out, you pass on first round quarterback talent, top ten quarterback talent, and the only explanations are that you “feel good about our quarterback room” and that “the acquisition of Bridgewater made us feel good about not going with Fields” and that is what you are offering up to fans? Can you understand why that wouldn’t sit well with the fan base? Why it shouldn’t? It’s the approach that Cleveland, Washington and Detroit take with their organizations. If it makes sense to do this, then (Paton) explain it in a way that makes sense. I haven’t heard that yet and I doubt any of you have either.

                      Do you need me to list the names of our past starting quarterbacks and the same sentiments that have been said about them despite large evidence to the contrary? Sanchez? Flacco? Siemien? Keenum? C’mon. Fool me once... I’ll eat crow right now if ANYONE can produce a shred of evidence that either of these quarterbacks is franchise talent. I don’t think anyone can because the game evidence isn’t there. It’s based on wishful thinking and optimistic projection. It’s playing the lottery for your retirement plan.

                      Hey, I’ll be the loudest one cheering if Lock turns into a franchise quarterback, don’t get me wrong, but you also can’t be stupid as an organization and not hedge your bets with the most vital and important position in football. You have to keep accumulating talent at the quarterback position from high yield areas (like a top ten draft choice) until you have an established solution there. From a stats projective, it’s a bad gamble to think that our quarterback room is going to work out (based on their stats and historical precedents) and that one of these top ten talents wouldn’t have given you some insurance or put you in a better situation.
                      For as little as you post.....you obviously feel very strong in your opinion and you are totally cool for letting your opinion be known. I'm not going to rebute { sp?} anything you say....Thank for your input...
                      I am however a little disappointed you didn't add any Brobdingnagian words.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Humberg View Post
                        I see a lot on here urging people not to judge the decisions of the front office, to have patience, that we should give Lock a chance.

                        I hear what you all are saying, and like I’ve said in other posts, Paton is doing some good things and there’s reason to believe he has a good head about him, but my point is this particular decision in the first round makes no sense. We now have trusted this front office for the past five years and the product put out by them was just bad. Nowhere else has this been more painfully evident than the performance of the quarterback room. Now they’ve apparently put together a plan that includes rolling with Lock who, no matter how you cut it, was not good enough last year and fell below expectations and Teddy B who most experts consider a backup level talent at this point. We’ve had chances during that time to draft quarterback talent in the first round and we passed and our quarterback play continued to be bad. And it just happened again. Does that make sense? Should that make us feel good about the direction this is headed?

                        Now when you are in that situation, with that history having played out, you pass on first round quarterback talent, top ten quarterback talent, and the only explanations are that you “feel good about our quarterback room” and that “the acquisition of Bridgewater made us feel good about not going with Fields” and that is what you are offering up to fans? Can you understand why that wouldn’t sit well with the fan base? Why it shouldn’t? It’s the approach that Cleveland, Washington and Detroit take with their organizations. If it makes sense to do this, then (Paton) explain it in a way that makes sense. I haven’t heard that yet and I doubt any of you have either.

                        Do you need me to list the names of our past starting quarterbacks and the same sentiments that have been said about them despite large evidence to the contrary? Sanchez? Flacco? Siemien? Keenum? C’mon. Fool me once... I’ll eat crow right now if ANYONE can produce a shred of evidence that either of these quarterbacks is franchise talent. I don’t think anyone can because the game evidence isn’t there. You’re rolling with a quarterback who was one of the worst in terms of performance among starters in the league last season and someone who another team thought was worth a sixth round draft choice and that team was still willing to pay the majority of their salary. That’s what this strategy is based on. It’s based on wishful thinking and optimistic projection. It’s playing the lottery for your retirement plan.

                        Hey, I’ll be the loudest one cheering if Lock turns into a franchise quarterback, don’t get me wrong, but you also can’t be stupid as an organization and not hedge your bets with the most vital and important position in football. You have to keep accumulating talent at the quarterback position from high yield areas (like a top ten draft choice) until you have an established solution there. From a stats projective, it’s a bad gamble to think that our quarterback room is going to work out (based on their stats and historical precedents) and that one of these top ten talents wouldn’t have given you some insurance or put you in a better situation.
                        This is a solid, not insulting or over the top explanation of exactly the view I was saying I can understand.

                        I totally get where you're coming from, and it's fair. I have close friends that feel very much the same, and I don't blame them either.

                        I believe Bridgewater was a solid choice as QB2 for now because he has been in Shurm's system, and *I* personally felt he was about to break out prior to his injury, and I wasn't alone. He's also a great locker room and overall guy, who will be willing to help Lock or would have been willing to help a rookie (or even a vet who hasn't been in the system before) if we liked one that fell to us. I don't think at any point they are saying to themselves... 'We got Bridgewater, so we're set.' I don't think they view him as a 'Franchise Talent' as you put it. He's good for helping others, and great as a backup, should our QB1 go down, or in Lock's case, fail to progress. While nobody is saying Bridgewater is a Franchise carrying QB, almost everyone would say that he is a top tier backup. He's such a massive upgrade over our previous backups, it seems a bit silly to trash the move to me.

                        I think that if a QB was there that they felt was a large upgrade to Lock fell to them at 9, they would have taken him (unless they're holding out for Rodgers). They didn't, so I assume that one didn't.

                        You say you'd like Paton to explain it in a way that makes sense... but he has. He has said repeatedly that they are high on Lock, but they are going to also look at bringing in any other QB who they believe can improve the team. Bridgewater was an instant upgrade. We've kicked the tires on several other options. You may not believe what Paton is saying. You may think he's blowing smoke. Is it possible though that he has given you the explanation you are looking for, and you're subconsciously disregarding it because you don't agree?

                        I could provide you with highlights of Lock that have made me feel that he has a chance to be a franchise talent, but you have already seen these and have made up your mind. So no shred of evidence I could bring would be something new to you. All reports have been that despite the fact that we've been looking at possible upgrades, he's been working his butt off all season to improve. He passes the eye test for me, I see enough in his play style and approach and talent and leadership that I feel he can turn a corner in a way that I have not felt about any of the names you mentioned before (I liked Siemien as a bridge, wanted Bridgewater over Keenum, tbh, but haven't been high on any of the others). Paton says he has seen enough from Lock to be comfortable riding with him.

                        I disagree with you on our QB situation, but I do want to say thank you for writing out the opposition view so well.
                        Thanks, Reid!
                        sigpic
                        Click on my sig to read JetRazor's and my story. Or PM me with any questions.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by LordTrychon View Post
                          Personally, I still believe there's a strong chance that Lock will improve this year. I can understand those that think that he can't or won't, and why the situation would be extremely frustrating for them.

                          I really can't think of any moves the FO has made this year that I'm not a fan of (Well, Lindsay, but the writing was on the wall when the Jano and the old system were both kicked out. Sad, but also before Paton)

                          I'm very glad that my views seem to line up with the FO on Lock... They've kicked the tires on options that would be clear upgrades, but are willing to give Lock a final chance... and if it doesn't work out, we have Bridgewater now who can possibly game manage us into the playoffs (though I think this is underselling how well he could potentially do here, reunited with Shurmer).

                          Yeah, if we end up getting a shot at Rodgers, we take it for sure. If not... I still think this team can compete, even in the division we're in.

                          The wait is the hardest part, but it's what makes it so much sweeter.

                          If your the worst starting qb already in the NFL you can't get any worse, right?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by rst08tierney View Post

                            If your the worst starting qb already in the NFL you can't get any worse, right?


                            Fair.

                            If you honestly think that Lock was the worst starting qb in the league, and that yours is a completely objective and not exaggerated stance at all, then I imagine your position is not the same view as mine and our GM's.

                            That's ok though. We'll see how it turns out, I guess!

                            Thanks, Reid!
                            sigpic
                            Click on my sig to read JetRazor's and my story. Or PM me with any questions.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              High character picks! I'm over the moon with the Quinn Meinerz choice. With a 17 game season I'm also happy with the extra safety (Johnson). Nice going Mr. Paton!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by LordTrychon View Post

                                This is a solid, not insulting or over the top explanation of exactly the view I was saying I can understand.

                                I totally get where you're coming from, and it's fair. I have close friends that feel very much the same, and I don't blame them either.

                                I believe Bridgewater was a solid choice as QB2 for now because he has been in Shurm's system, and *I* personally felt he was about to break out prior to his injury, and I wasn't alone. He's also a great locker room and overall guy, who will be willing to help Lock or would have been willing to help a rookie (or even a vet who hasn't been in the system before) if we liked one that fell to us. I don't think at any point they are saying to themselves... 'We got Bridgewater, so we're set.' I don't think they view him as a 'Franchise Talent' as you put it. He's good for helping others, and great as a backup, should our QB1 go down, or in Lock's case, fail to progress. While nobody is saying Bridgewater is a Franchise carrying QB, almost everyone would say that he is a top tier backup. He's such a massive upgrade over our previous backups, it seems a bit silly to trash the move to me.

                                I think that if a QB was there that they felt was a large upgrade to Lock fell to them at 9, they would have taken him (unless they're holding out for Rodgers). They didn't, so I assume that one didn't.

                                You say you'd like Paton to explain it in a way that makes sense... but he has. He has said repeatedly that they are high on Lock, but they are going to also look at bringing in any other QB who they believe can improve the team. Bridgewater was an instant upgrade. We've kicked the tires on several other options. You may not believe what Paton is saying. You may think he's blowing smoke. Is it possible though that he has given you the explanation you are looking for, and you're subconsciously disregarding it because you don't agree?

                                I could provide you with highlights of Lock that have made me feel that he has a chance to be a franchise talent, but you have already seen these and have made up your mind. So no shred of evidence I could bring would be something new to you. All reports have been that despite the fact that we've been looking at possible upgrades, he's been working his butt off all season to improve. He passes the eye test for me, I see enough in his play style and approach and talent and leadership that I feel he can turn a corner in a way that I have not felt about any of the names you mentioned before (I liked Siemien as a bridge, wanted Bridgewater over Keenum, tbh, but haven't been high on any of the others). Paton says he has seen enough from Lock to be comfortable riding with him.

                                I disagree with you on our QB situation, but I do want to say thank you for writing out the opposition view so well.
                                Well said and that’s fair. I agree with your take on Bridgewater, so then it must all have to do with how good they think Lock can be with Teddy B’s help and I’ll give you that makes a certain kind of sense.

                                I just have a hard time putting all the eggs in that basket and passing on drafting a possible upgrade. I guess I would feel differently, even be willing to overlook being at the bottom among starters in QBR last year and leading the league in interceptions if Paton was sitting there saying “wow, I’ve been around a lot of good quarterbacks in my time and from what I’m seeing I’m telling you Drew could be special.” But he’s not saying that. It’s lukewarm comments. It’s “he’s working hard.” It’s not “Drew is the unquestioned starter for next year.” Its “we feel good about our quarterback room.” Have you ever heard that from anyone with a franchise guy? Instead we’re hearing it’s going to be an open competition to push Drew. That’s not a ringing endorsement and shouldn’t be reassuring to anyone. To me it sings mediocrity and we get enough of that from the Rockies.

                                I respect what you said. You make some excellent points and what you are saying makes sense. More importantly, as a fan I really hope you are right and I am wrong.

                                To permit irresponsible authority is to sell disaster. (Heinlein)...like Broncos season tickets!

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