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Lets Poll It....Do You Want Aaron Rodgers To Lead The Denver Broncos?

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  • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

    I don’t think it’d be that bad retaining our current core, if the chiefs have taught me anything it’s that the salary cap is only real to fans. Losing out on picks suck, but the core of this team is strong and once you’re in the playoffs anything can happen.

    KC has not seen the impact on the cap yet. 2022 and 2023 will be there tough years. Every year since SB 50 we have seen talent go elsewhere due to cap restraints, not sure how anyone can say it is not a real thing? Not having 1st round picks will just compound the cap problem as those are starters for around 3-4 million a year for 4 years, 2nd rounders are ven more affordable starters when you hit. Risner cost 10M less than Glasgow.

    I just feel we are so close to regaining our winning ways, for a long window of 4-5 years, Aaron represents a 2 year window at best.

    Lock up Chubb, Sutton, Fant, Risner, and maybe AJ if he comes affordable. Show a little patience with Lock, and keep adding talent to the roster. Even extending Sutton, Chubb, and AJ we should still be in fantastic shape next year to add a big FA on each side of the ball (maybe RT Ryan Ramczyk and ILB Fred Warner...can dream right ).

    Just so many smarter ways to regain our spot on top of this division than pushing all our chips in.


    Ravens GM 2016 - Ravens are looking to trade down 4-8 spots

    Comment


    • Originally posted by MHSalute View Post


      KC has not seen the impact on the cap yet. 2022 and 2023 will be there tough years. Every year since SB 50 we have seen talent go elsewhere due to cap restraints, not sure how anyone can say it is not a real thing? Not having 1st round picks will just compound the cap problem as those are starters for around 3-4 million a year for 4 years, 2nd rounders are ven more affordable starters when you hit. Risner cost 10M less than Glasgow.

      I just feel we are so close to regaining our winning ways, for a long window of 4-5 years, Aaron represents a 2 year window at best.

      Lock up Chubb, Sutton, Fant, Risner, and maybe AJ if he comes affordable. Show a little patience with Lock, and keep adding talent to the roster. Even extending Sutton, Chubb, and AJ we should still be in fantastic shape next year to add a big FA on each side of the ball (maybe RT Ryan Ramczyk and ILB Fred Warner...can dream right ).

      Just so many smarter ways to regain our spot on top of this division than pushing all our chips in.

      You have a right to your opinion. Most of what you say makes sense. But I differ with the bolded statement. "Smarter" is where we differ. You might have the better solution, but you might not. I don't see it as smarter than if we traded for Rodgers, which instantly gives us one of the best QBs in the league, for possibly 3 or more years. Even though it would cost us in picks/players (possibly), if it takes the group we have and accelerates our ability to win now, it means we are a better team for as long as Rodgers can play. Not to take away from Drew, but I would even say we would be a much better team. And in order to win championships, you need to be better than we are.

      The problem with wishing and hoping Lock progresses, is that he might not. And then we are in deep QB search mode yet again. And how do you build on what we have if you keep getting sidetracked with QB focus? How do you get the best non QBs in the draft if you need to keep strategizing around the QB position? For me the bottom line goes like this:

      We don't have a proven long term QB. We might have the answer, but we might have to start all over again next year. With Rodgers, we are vaulted to playoff contention. And outside of a player or two, none of our draft picks lost in the trade become meaningful for at least one year....and if they even turn out to be starters. Plus, we instantly become Free Agent friendly. Good players like really good QBs leading them, especially if they make the team SB contenders. I would argue that for each lost high draft pick, we would gain one high quality FA possibility that we did not have prior to.

      I have been quoting NFL N's Cynthia Frelund a bit of late, because her statistical analysis is quite good. Last year she projected we'd win 7.9 games (based on her intensive model). She was a little too high in the end, but like us, she did not know about the injuries to come. This coming year, in a 17 game schedule, she predicts 8.1 wins, which is actually a little less positive given the extra game. She did mention Sutton's return as part of the reason to be hopeful, so this forecast is not exactly a ringing endorsement. Not saying she knows more than everyone else, But any power rankings I have seen of late reflect us as a lower level team. Here's a comment from one ranking (at 28th):

      The Broncos can't be listed above here despite a productive offseason in filling a lot of present and future needs because another season of either Drew Lock or Teddy Bridgewater starting in the NFL doesn't inspire.

      Again, some folks do not care for all the analysts, power rankers, and so on. But if you want a consistent storyline from most I've seen, The Broncos are not knocking on the door with the QBs we have.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by MHSalute View Post


        KC has not seen the impact on the cap yet. 2022 and 2023 will be there tough years. Every year since SB 50 we have seen talent go elsewhere due to cap restraints, not sure how anyone can say it is not a real thing? Not having 1st round picks will just compound the cap problem as those are starters for around 3-4 million a year for 4 years, 2nd rounders are ven more affordable starters when you hit. Risner cost 10M less than Glasgow.

        I just feel we are so close to regaining our winning ways, for a long window of 4-5 years, Aaron represents a 2 year window at best.

        Lock up Chubb, Sutton, Fant, Risner, and maybe AJ if he comes affordable. Show a little patience with Lock, and keep adding talent to the roster. Even extending Sutton, Chubb, and AJ we should still be in fantastic shape next year to add a big FA on each side of the ball (maybe RT Ryan Ramczyk and ILB Fred Warner...can dream right ).

        Just so many smarter ways to regain our spot on top of this division than pushing all our chips in.

        I feel Rodgers makes Sutton, Jeudy, Hamler, Fant etc. much better immediately. I'm not confident in Lock doing that this season or anytime soon. So the flip side is we aren't wasting their prime years or development on the wish strategy with Lock.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by CanDB View Post

          You have a right to your opinion. Most of what you say makes sense. But I differ with the bolded statement. "Smarter" is where we differ. You might have the better solution, but you might not. I don't see it as smarter than if we traded for Rodgers, which instantly gives us one of the best QBs in the league, for possibly 3 or more years. Even though it would cost us in picks/players (possibly), if it takes the group we have and accelerates our ability to win now, it means we are a better team for as long as Rodgers can play. Not to take away from Drew, but I would even say we would be a much better team. And in order to win championships, you need to be better than we are.

          Of course it is all opinion, end of the day we all want what is best I just happen to believe you need lots of talent to win Championships. We had Peyton, but we also had a lot of cheap starters on those teams that got us to two SBs. Wolfe, Jackson, CHJ, Trev,... Keep in mind we are still a team in transition with plenty of roster question marks after this year. Two ILB, 3 starting DBS, VM, and RT all look to be needs to fill next year. We may or may not have just drafted guys that can step up, hardly a sure thing tho.

          Does Manning win SBs without Talib, Ward, Ware, and Stewart? That defense was as much FA spending and home grown talent. Rogers cap number as much as losing those draft picks is going to sink us quickly. Just my opinion, yes, but we all saw what contracts to DT, ES, Wolfe, VM, CHJ,... did to our ability to maintain a talented roster...we simply became top heavy and aged out (couple bad drafts did not help things).


          The problem with wishing and hoping Lock progresses, is that he might not. And then we are in deep QB search mode yet again. And how do you build on what we have if you keep getting sidetracked with QB focus? How do you get the best non QBs in the draft if you need to keep strategizing around the QB position? For me the bottom line goes like this:

          We don't have a proven long term QB. We might have the answer, but we might have to start all over again next year. With Rodgers, we are vaulted to playoff contention. And outside of a player or two, none of our draft picks lost in the trade become meaningful for at least one year....and if they even turn out to be starters. Plus, we instantly become Free Agent friendly. Good players like really good QBs leading them, especially if they make the team SB contenders. I would argue that for each lost high draft pick, we would gain one high quality FA possibility that we did not have prior to.

          It is barely over a year's work on the field, maybe less than most given the pandemic and how it altered how much actual work could be done. It has been said it take 5 years to master the WCO, Rodgers took about that himself. The only way to get a proven long term QB is to develop one.

          I have been quoting NFL N's Cynthia Frelund a bit of late, because her statistical analysis is quite good. Last year she projected we'd win 7.9 games (based on her intensive model). She was a little too high in the end, but like us, she did not know about the injuries to come. This coming year, in a 17 game schedule, she predicts 8.1 wins, which is actually a little less positive given the extra game. She did mention Sutton's return as part of the reason to be hopeful, so this forecast is not exactly a ringing endorsement. Not saying she knows more than everyone else, But any power rankings I have seen of late reflect us as a lower level team. Here's a comment from one ranking (at 28th):

          The Broncos can't be listed above here despite a productive offseason in filling a lot of present and future needs because another season of either Drew Lock or Teddy Bridgewater starting in the NFL doesn't inspire.

          Again, some folks do not care for all the analysts, power rankers, and so on. But if you want a consistent storyline from most I've seen, The Broncos are not knocking on the door with the QBs we have.
          Go look at Baker Mayfield's number in year two and what he did in year three. Tannehill, Rodgers, Brees, Rivers, Ryan... plenty of QBs take 3-4 years to get it. If teams are just going to measure QBs by Mahomes,...

          You don't have a QB until you do, but most teams that do are because they developed them and that development takes time.

          Rodgers to me is just not smart, it is impatient and it would be a bill we would regret in my most humble opinion. Other comments in bold above

          Ravens GM 2016 - Ravens are looking to trade down 4-8 spots

          Comment


          • Originally posted by MHSalute View Post


            KC has not seen the impact on the cap yet. 2022 and 2023 will be there tough years. Every year since SB 50 we have seen talent go elsewhere due to cap restraints, not sure how anyone can say it is not a real thing? Not having 1st round picks will just compound the cap problem as those are starters for around 3-4 million a year for 4 years, 2nd rounders are ven more affordable starters when you hit. Risner cost 10M less than Glasgow.

            I just feel we are so close to regaining our winning ways, for a long window of 4-5 years, Aaron represents a 2 year window at best.

            Lock up Chubb, Sutton, Fant, Risner, and maybe AJ if he comes affordable. Show a little patience with Lock, and keep adding talent to the roster. Even extending Sutton, Chubb, and AJ we should still be in fantastic shape next year to add a big FA on each side of the ball (maybe RT Ryan Ramczyk and ILB Fred Warner...can dream right ).

            Just so many smarter ways to regain our spot on top of this division than pushing all our chips in.

            They might not have seen cap restraints from a QB contract yet, but the talk heading into the offseason last season was how would they find the money to bring back Chris Jones. Not only did they sign him to a lucrative extension, but they gave Mahomes an absurd contract and gave Kelce the 2nd highest contract. And this offseason they trade for Orlando Brown who is going to be extended after the season for probably another massive deal.

            The numbers we see with all these deals are nonsense. Mahomes will have his contract restructured probably 6-7 times over the course of it. As long as the guy is under contract, you can manipulate it in any number of ways to create cap space. It also makes you take a second look at spending Willy nilly in FA on those guys who end up being dead cap a year or two down the line.

            As the team stands now, there aren’t really any positions that don’t have young depth outside of RT. The dline is set as long as Kollar is here. OLB lacks depth once Von walks (but with Rodgers maybe he doesn’t) but Chubb is solid and Reed did lead the team in sacks. ILB is a bit of a question mark that we should find out a bit more this season with seeing how Strnad and Browning develop. Secondary is locked and loaded. So when I look at it, I don’t see any good edge rushers or OTs hitting the FA market so we won’t even need to spend big money there as it’ll be addressed with whatever is left of our draft picks. I just don’t see the point in hoping that Lock develops when a guy like Rogers is potentially an option. Now if he wasn’t, I’d be perfectly fine with rolling with Lock, I think he’ll play well this season, but he isn’t taking us to the Super Bowl this season, Rogers gives us a much higher chance.

            Comment


            • KC has 26 players under contract for 2022 and 26MM in cap space, they may get creative to kick their cap issues down the road, but we saw last year how lack of depth doomed them. As long as they have Mahomes, they will be good. Russell Wilson and the cap impact is a peak at what we can expect. Sure they make the playoffs, but depth catches up and they fall short.

              KC will come back down as we rise up. Do not need Rogers to get us there.
              Ravens GM 2016 - Ravens are looking to trade down 4-8 spots

              Comment


              • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

                They might not have seen cap restraints from a QB contract yet, but the talk heading into the offseason last season was how would they find the money to bring back Chris Jones. Not only did they sign him to a lucrative extension, but they gave Mahomes an absurd contract and gave Kelce the 2nd highest contract. And this offseason they trade for Orlando Brown who is going to be extended after the season for probably another massive deal.

                The numbers we see with all these deals are nonsense. Mahomes will have his contract restructured probably 6-7 times over the course of it. As long as the guy is under contract, you can manipulate it in any number of ways to create cap space. It also makes you take a second look at spending Willy nilly in FA on those guys who end up being dead cap a year or two down the line.

                As the team stands now, there aren’t really any positions that don’t have young depth outside of RT. The dline is set as long as Kollar is here. OLB lacks depth once Von walks (but with Rodgers maybe he doesn’t) but Chubb is solid and Reed did lead the team in sacks. ILB is a bit of a question mark that we should find out a bit more this season with seeing how Strnad and Browning develop. Secondary is locked and loaded. So when I look at it, I don’t see any good edge rushers or OTs hitting the FA market so we won’t even need to spend big money there as it’ll be addressed with whatever is left of our draft picks. I just don’t see the point in hoping that Lock develops when a guy like Rogers is potentially an option. Now if he wasn’t, I’d be perfectly fine with rolling with Lock, I think he’ll play well this season, but he isn’t taking us to the Super Bowl this season, Rogers gives us a much higher chance.
                The hoping and waiting game is not wise to me. I almost think that some just don't want Rodgers, either because they believe he is diva only, or because they think he will cost too much. Or they just don't like him. But in the end this becomes a business deal. What would a high class business do? I believe they would weigh their options with due diligence, and then consider costs/benefits for a potential trade....and also do a risk assessment of leaving things as they are. In the end, I believe they go Rodgers, because of:

                A) He greatly increases SB chances, which is the primary goal of any NFL team
                B) The cost of lost draft picks and possibly a player or two would justify the end result...also factoring in that FA might be improved with Rodgers here
                C) There are few guarantees that Lock will become a legit franchise QB, which means we will be just as far from winning a championship in a couple of years as we are now...with no QB guarantees after that
                D) The fact that there is ample evidence of HoF QBs taking a team to new heights over night.....Manning/Brady
                E) It would provide plenty of time for a young QB to prepare for the starting job that may await in approx. 3 years. And if longer, may serve as excellent trade bait.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by MHSalute View Post
                  KC has 26 players under contract for 2022 and 26MM in cap space, they may get creative to kick their cap issues down the road, but we saw last year how lack of depth doomed them. As long as they have Mahomes, they will be good. Russell Wilson and the cap impact is a peak at what we can expect. Sure they make the playoffs, but depth catches up and they fall short.

                  KC will come back down as we rise up. Do not need Rogers to get us there.
                  I've been hearing this doom and gloom KC problem for a couple of years, and yet they keep on keeping on with wise resource decisions. They might be even better this coming season with their trades/selections.

                  And I would not mind their issues.....they have Mahomes, Kelce, Hill and a pretty good D. They overhauled their Oline. They missed being in 3 straight SBs by one late offside call. And currently they are ranked the #1 AFC team going into the season.
                  Last edited by CanDB; 05-14-2021, 10:26 AM.

                  Comment


                  • LeFleur says the Packers want Rodgers back in the worst way. I don’t believe him because Love is still on the team. They might want Rodgers for another year, but do they really want him beyond that?

                    June 2 can’t get her fast enough just to see if anyone budges.
                    My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
                    You Mad Bro?
                    Don’t Be A Mean Girl

                    Comment


                    • I wouldn’t hold my breath. IMO Rodgers is not leaving GB. My guess is he gets the big extension he wants.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by CanDB View Post

                        I've been hearing this doom and gloom KC problem for a couple of years, and yet they keep on keeping on with wise resource decisions. They might be even better this coming season with their trades/selections.

                        And I would not mind their issues.....they have Mahomes, Kelce, Hill and a pretty good D. They overhauled their Oline. They missed being in 3 straight SBs by one late offside call. And currently they are ranked the #1 AFC team going into the season.
                        Not sure how it has been a couple years when Mahomes is just moving off his rookie contract in 2022/

                        In 2022 cap increases from 2021

                        Mahomes 7.4M to 36M
                        Jones 8.5M to to 29.5M,
                        Thurney 4.5M to 17.8M

                        Is it all going to fall apart? No, but KC better draft very, very well because hey are not going to be able to spend to fill holes.
                        Ravens GM 2016 - Ravens are looking to trade down 4-8 spots

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by MHSalute View Post

                          Not sure how it has been a couple years when Mahomes is just moving off his rookie contract in 2022/

                          In 2022 cap increases from 2021

                          Mahomes 7.4M to 36M
                          Jones 8.5M to to 29.5M,
                          Thurney 4.5M to 17.8M

                          Is it all going to fall apart? No, but KC better draft very, very well because hey are not going to be able to spend to fill holes.
                          If KC makes it to a 3rd straight SB, maybe wins it.....after just missing the SB 3 years back, I am not sure how KC fans would be too concerned about the direction they have gone. They seem to be very smart with managing resources within their budget.

                          I (obviously) believe a key aspect of team success has to do with how you spend your budget. You will have expensive players, mid ranged players, and lower pay scale players. You have to determine how much you can pay your top players, because that will be a significant part of the cap space you have. Medium salaries will also add up, if you have a lot of them. So you have to be astute as to which higher priced players you build your team around, and assess that throughout your roster. At some point, if you have a significant amount paid out to higher quality players (including many mid ranged ones), you need to understand how to fill your roster at the lower end of the scale, and still be competitive. You may go with rookie RBs, or cheaper WRs to compliment your high rent star WR. You might have a different approach in some units. Maybe you like to pay for really good Oliners, or Dbacks or whatever. So where can you reduce costs in other areas? You may also employ 1 year contracts for reasonably good players, at lower prices but with the risk they will leave after a season.

                          My gut tells me KC is extremely confident in their approach to roster and associated salary. They rebuilt their Oline this offseason, and even paid a really good player, but perhaps at a lower positional price, given he has not played LT that much. IMO they are one WR short of a rock solid O, and they manage to keep key defenders, while strengthening as well.

                          Like I say, this is the 3rd year I've heard about their demise....wish we had the same "demise".
                          Last edited by CanDB; 05-15-2021, 06:46 AM.

                          Comment


                          • Because we are on hold until early June (or so), unless of course something shakes down prior to, what is it, in your opinion, that will make Rodgers and Green Bay compatible again?

                            Sure, money, money, money...but that only has so much team value, and eventually Rodgers will know the difference between greedy and helping the team win another championship. Would it be something trade related, as in, acquiring another choice weapon, or other player that he sees as a perfect fit in their journey to a SB? I am not sure that would happen, but if I'm The Pack, I do want this relationship fixed soon. As much as some there may find him to be a pain at times, they know that the best path for success is still with him, including fan support.

                            Any thoughts on what will make both parties "sort of" happy again?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by CanDB View Post
                              Because we are on hold until early June (or so), unless of course something shakes down prior to, what is it, in your opinion, that will make Rodgers and Green Bay compatible again?

                              Sure, money, money, money...but that only has so much team value, and eventually Rodgers will know the difference between greedy and helping the team win another championship. Would it be something trade related, as in, acquiring another choice weapon, or other player that he sees as a perfect fit in their journey to a SB? I am not sure that would happen, but if I'm The Pack, I do want this relationship fixed soon. As much as some there may find him to be a pain at times, they know that the best path for success is still with him, including fan support.

                              Any thoughts on what will make both parties "sort of" happy again?
                              I think they'd have to make him the highest or close to it, I believe he's #5. But I don't think money's the top thing, it's respect. They've blatantly told him/reminded him of how the GB front office operates. They don't seem to take player considerations when making decisions. GB just operates differently, maybe because of their history in the league, but Aaron clearly doesn't like it. They got rid of Nelson without even letting him know. Technically, they didn't have to, but you have to respect your QB a little more than that. From what I see and have heard, Rodgers has just had enough and wants to be involved in decision making or at least consulted. Unless GB drastically changes their stance, and I doubt they do, I doubt it can be fixed.

                              That's part of the reason I think we have a good shot to get him. He was already rumored to have us on the list, but looking at what was done for Peyton, I think Rodgers has that on his mind. Peyton basically ran the show, from practices and meetings, to personnel on the field. I think that's what Rodgers is looking for. I'm hoping Peyton has been playing recruiter behind the scenes. It should be a role as summer intern.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by champ&dreallday View Post

                                I think they'd have to make him the highest or close to it, I believe he's #5. But I don't think money's the top thing, it's respect. They've blatantly told him/reminded him of how the GB front office operates. They don't seem to take player considerations when making decisions. GB just operates differently, maybe because of their history in the league, but Aaron clearly doesn't like it. They got rid of Nelson without even letting him know. Technically, they didn't have to, but you have to respect your QB a little more than that. From what I see and have heard, Rodgers has just had enough and wants to be involved in decision making or at least consulted. Unless GB drastically changes their stance, and I doubt they do, I doubt it can be fixed.

                                That's part of the reason I think we have a good shot to get him. He was already rumored to have us on the list, but looking at what was done for Peyton, I think Rodgers has that on his mind. Peyton basically ran the show, from practices and meetings, to personnel on the field. I think that's what Rodgers is looking for. I'm hoping Peyton has been playing recruiter behind the scenes. It should be a role as summer intern.
                                I agree with you! Respect is so hard to define, because it's based on varying parameters. If you are a legendary QB, and you are absolutely the face of the organization, you feel like you deserve more involvement than the others. Makes total sense to me. This is not the 1800s!

                                And I think it's happened one too many times for Rodgers. I am not sure if you saw Paul Holmgren on NFL Network, but even though he is being diplomatic, he did suggest The Packers could have handled this different. It came across loud and clear enough to me, that without being overly assertive his point was made. And Aaron Rodgers knows who he is, what power he has, and even more so, sees how Brady and other stars are treated. In his mind I am sure he wonders why they keep messin with him, when he is clearly "the guy". Hey, Brady left town partly because he was tired of the direction/rigidity. So his case is different, but came down to a fundamental similarity....unhappiness.
                                Last edited by CanDB; 05-17-2021, 08:08 AM.

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