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  • Originally posted by lvbronx View Post

    You are correct, but that wasn't the point of my post. My point was that there are many "should be" INTs that aren't counted against every QB. If you are going to bring up INTs for any reason for Teddy, apply the exact same criteria to every other QB in the NFL, which will help you make a logical, rational conclusion.

    Your issue is you are changing the argument (straw man). When I bumped this thread recently with Teddy's stats, it wasn't to compare Teddy to other QBs. It was to compare Teddy's performance to his past performance as well as to expectations. It is so painful for some to admit that Teddy is doing better than they thought that they do everything to avoid admitting it so they try to change to topic.

    Teddy doing better than expected doesn't mean we should, or shouldn't, look to upgrade QB. It means we should adjust how likely we are to get a better QB, how much will Teddy cost, how much will it cost to get another QB and what's the risk? It could be a case of resigning Teddy with the goal of drafting a young QB to develop.



    His stats are inflated due to playing bad teams early on and on playing prevent defenses late in games cause of his piss poor play in the first half of games.

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    • Originally posted by CanDB View Post

      Lets just say, we know a lot about TB. He's not Hall of Fame material, but he's had a decent career which was significantly altered early on by a terrible injury. He has survived. And he has shown capability over the years, particularly in New Orleans. He is not the QB long term answer for this city, but he is doing quite well, given his imperfections. Yes, we can be critical about what he does, how he does it, and when he does it, but I back him this year, and believe he's the best chance we got.
      I wouldn’t go so far as “quite well”. If he played well the Broncos wouldn’t have lost four straight. Keenum outplayed Teddy for crying out loud. The Cowboys game is driving “recency bias” with the fan base. Bridgewater played decent however he was helped by really good run production, which is what he needs to play well.
      Last edited by Fantaztic7; 11-10-2021, 04:18 PM.

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      • When it comes to football, stats don’t really tell the story. They only give a glimpse of the story.

        It would be nice if there were a way to record how those stats were accumulated.

        I doubt Teddy really is better than expected. If he were, the Broncos would probably have a better record. I think it’s more likely that he’s right around what was expected.

        As it is, our hope for success truly lies with the hope that Shurmur will change who he is as a play caller and not what Teddy can do as a quarterback.
        My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
        You Mad Bro?
        Don’t Be A Mean Girl

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        • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post

          I wouldn’t go so far as “quite well”. If he played well the Broncos wouldn’t have lost four straight. Keenum outplayed Teddy for crying out loud. The Cowboys game is driving “recency bias” with the fan base. Bridgewater played decent however he was helped by really good run production, which is what he needs to play well.
          I think we're now splitting hairs. "Quite well" translates differently for some. Based on his pass rate, overall stats, team record and what we know about his game, quite well is not much of a stretch in my books. But certainly, call it what you will. The facts are on the table....but how we describe his performance/leadership may have a wide range of responses.

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          • It's what many said about Teddy before he signed. Complementing a run first team, he can be an effective QB.

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            • Originally posted by CanDB View Post

              I think we're now splitting hairs. "Quite well" translates differently for some. Based on his pass rate, overall stats, team record and what we know about his game, quite well is not much of a stretch in my books. But certainly, call it what you will. The facts are on the table....but how we describe his performance/leadership may have a wide range of responses.
              No splitting hairs - Bridgewater has been mediocre to below most of the season. He’s led the offense to one win against a team with a winning record.

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              • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post

                No splitting hairs - Bridgewater has been mediocre to below most of the season. He’s led the offense to one win against a team with a winning record.
                That's your opinion about his play and the definition of "quite well". Different than mine.

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                • Originally posted by Locutus View Post
                  His stats are inflated due to playing bad teams early on and on playing prevent defenses late in games cause of his piss poor play in the first half of games.
                  Debatable. NYG beat LV, JAX beat BUF, and NYJ beat TEN so it’s any given Sunday and IF Teddy struggled against those teams instead, y’all would be roasting him anyways. So y’all insult him for beating bad teams as he’s expected to, but then if he disappoints— he’s still getting trashed on these forums either way.

                  The only team that played prevent against us was LV. PIT still played aggressive, he was injured against BAL, and then CLE was still a relatively close game. It’s not like he’s had garbage time all year.

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                  • Originally posted by CanDB View Post

                    That's your opinion about his play and the definition of "quite well". Different than mine.
                    I think the two camps that you are both coming from, which I think reflects where a lot of people are, both could make some concessions.

                    Teddy has been better than the check down Teddy that was forecasted when he first came here. In fact he has been quite effective at times stretching the field and throwing down field. He’s has made our pass pro look better than it actually is with his ability to move in the pocket and buy time. He has been what we need in those wins and was most impressive against Dallas. He has been a great teammate and rallied people around him. During those moments he has exceeded expectations.

                    At the same time, in the losses he has been close to miserable. Certainly hasn’t been able to carry the team on his back and brings into question whether he is talented enough to succeed without complimentary football. Against stiffer competition (minus Dallas) he has looked every bit the journeyman quarterback he was believed to be.

                    So it’s really a mixed picture and as far as judging his season, the outcome will be decided by the preponderance of performance the reminder of the season.

                    My perspective is that it doesn’t really matter. I don’t think he’s good enough to realistically get us to the post season, so I think we’re hoping for a mediocre season at best, a dismal season at worst, and then he’s gone. At the end of the day, no matter good or bad play from Teddy B, we’re no closer to figuring out our quarterback situation than we were one year ago, two or three years ago or seven.
                    To permit irresponsible authority is to sell disaster. (Heinlein)...like Broncos season tickets!

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                    • Originally posted by Locutus View Post

                      That’s quite the sugar coat. The simplest explanation is Teddy Bridgewater need everything to be perfect around him in order to look like a average starting QB. Teddy Bridgewater is a good backup, nothing more.
                      I think of it as having realistic expectations. I do not expect Bridgewater or other quarterbacks to perform at their best when playing against a good defense one week after suffering a concussion, or expect their accuracy, mobility and sack rate to be unaffected when dealing with both a foot and quad injury. OK, maybe you barely scraped through the concussion protocol, but the speed of your decision-making one week after a concussion is almost certainly not going to be at 100%. Similarly with quarterback leg injuries -- Peyton Manning got benched in his final season for throwing four interceptions when he was trying to play through high ankle sprains on both legs. Manning lost the divisional playoff game to the Colts the prior season while playing on a torn quad, where the game recap said this about his play: "Manning’s third season with the club ended with a subpar performance from the legendary 38-year-old quarterback, who completed just 26-of-46 passes for 211 yards with one touchdown and a lost fumble. His passes lacked their usual accuracy, and his longer passes were uncommonly heave-like." https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...fc-title-game/. Which was made worse by a Colts defender targeting the injury by going low on Manning on the opening drive for a roughing-the-passer penalty at 5:40 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L8WLMV7_m8. John Elway threw a pick-six in the AFC Championship against the Bills after sustaining a deep thigh bruise that affected his accuracy and mobility. Why judge an injured Bridgewater more harshly? And in addition to being injured, Bridgewater wasn't getting a lot of help from his Oline, which DVOA ranks #28 in pass protection: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/st...sive-line/2021. These are just realities for any quarterback, HOF or not.

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                      • Originally posted by HDbroncos02 View Post
                        Debatable. NYG beat LV, JAX beat BUF, and NYJ beat TEN so it’s any given Sunday and IF Teddy struggled against those teams instead, y’all would be roasting him anyways. So y’all insult him for beating bad teams as he’s expected to, but then if he disappoints— he’s still getting trashed on these forums either way.

                        The only team that played prevent against us was LV. PIT still played aggressive, he was injured against BAL, and then CLE was still a relatively close game. It’s not like he’s had garbage time all year.
                        Moreover, the Next Gen Stats I cited earlier adjust for the prevent defense and garbage time factors too, such as CPOE.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by HDbroncos02 View Post
                          Debatable. NYG beat LV, JAX beat BUF, and NYJ beat TEN so it’s any given Sunday and IF Teddy struggled against those teams instead, y’all would be roasting him anyways. So y’all insult him for beating bad teams as he’s expected to, but then if he disappoints— he’s still getting trashed on these forums either way.

                          The only team that played prevent against us was LV. PIT still played aggressive, he was injured against BAL, and then CLE was still a relatively close game. It’s not like he’s had garbage time all year.
                          Every year since the creation of football bad teams have found a way to beat good teams they’re not supposed to. Like it or not Denver beating Dallas was one of those games. Maybe Denver finally turned it around but realistically, they just beat a team that looked past them.
                          Last edited by Locutus; 11-11-2021, 03:01 AM.

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                          • Originally posted by Locutus View Post

                            Every year since the creation of football bad teams have found a way to beat good teams they’re not supposed to. Like it or not Denver beating Dallas was one of those games. Maybe Denver finally turned it around but realistically, they just beat a team that looked past them.
                            I can see how Cowboys fans would say that to make themselves feel better, but not sure why a Broncos fan would volunteer such a thing. Maybe someone who dislikes Bridgewater more than they like the Broncos would. Because the argument you have to make isn't that sometimes bad teams beat good teams, it's that sometimes bad teams beat good teams 30-0 with 4 minutes to go. Not barely beating with a last-second field goal or a fluke turnover on a tipped pass.

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                            • Originally posted by Humberg View Post

                              I think the two camps that you are both coming from, which I think reflects where a lot of people are, both could make some concessions.

                              Teddy has been better than the check down Teddy that was forecasted when he first came here. In fact he has been quite effective at times stretching the field and throwing down field. He’s has made our pass pro look better than it actually is with his ability to move in the pocket and buy time. He has been what we need in those wins and was most impressive against Dallas. He has been a great teammate and rallied people around him. During those moments he has exceeded expectations.

                              At the same time, in the losses he has been close to miserable. Certainly hasn’t been able to carry the team on his back and brings into question whether he is talented enough to succeed without complimentary football. Against stiffer competition (minus Dallas) he has looked every bit the journeyman quarterback he was believed to be.

                              So it’s really a mixed picture and as far as judging his season, the outcome will be decided by the preponderance of performance the reminder of the season.

                              My perspective is that it doesn’t really matter. I don’t think he’s good enough to realistically get us to the post season, so I think we’re hoping for a mediocre season at best, a dismal season at worst, and then he’s gone. At the end of the day, no matter good or bad play from Teddy B, we’re no closer to figuring out our quarterback situation than we were one year ago, two or three years ago or seven.
                              That's cool. But I have tried to be logical and yes, team supportive, and when we start debating what "quite well" means, it becomes wasted energy in my opinion. For me, Teddy is not a top level QB anymore, but is doing his job, and at times, better than expected. He has made some poor passes, decisions and so on....but every week I see high paid QBs do the same. And under all of this, I believe he is a better than average team leader/team guy, which if true, counts for some really important "team points". As you know, it's not Teddy Bridgewater than wins or loses games every week. He is part of a much bigger group of game influencers.

                              So I look at it this way...he's not my choice for 2022, but who cares? He is doing for me, "quite well" if you combine expectations with leadership with 5 and 4 record (and just stompin Dallas). Quite well is all this recent debate was about, and all I did was use those 2 words. Quite well is not really good. it is sometimes what I say to those who I know are not proficient at something, but are trying and are making a positive impact at times, sometimes often. It does not mean "really good". or anything near to it.

                              So I suggest we avoid hair splitting around here and focus on facts and other goods things, even if we disagree. Disagreement is quite ok, if backed by some content, and is not solely because we are in different camps.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by CasualFan View Post

                                I can see how Cowboys fans would say that to make themselves feel better, but not sure why a Broncos fan would volunteer such a thing. Maybe someone who dislikes Bridgewater more than they like the Broncos would. Because the argument you have to make isn't that sometimes bad teams beat good teams, it's that sometimes bad teams beat good teams 30-0 with 4 minutes to go. Not barely beating with a last-second field goal or a fluke turnover on a tipped pass.
                                While it might be true that the Broncos aren’t a bad team, that doesn’t mean the Giants, Jets. and Jags are good teams that the Broncos beat. They are bad teams.
                                My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
                                You Mad Bro?
                                Don’t Be A Mean Girl

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