Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Teddy Bridgewater Named Starting QB

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by LordTrychon View Post

    If he continues to play like this.... why would it be unlikely that he would be back?

    If he continues to play like this... would you not want him back?

    Do you not think he'd want to continue to play in a system that he succeeds in?

    Nobody is picking us to go deep in the playoffs because it's still early. If he continues to play like this though, that could easily change.
    If he continues to play well, sure the desire to have him back would be there. But it’s about the $$$$$.

    Would you be willing to pay him franchise money for a multi year contract that would freeze you at that position and potentially other positions based on what he did this year? Teams ALWAYS over pay in free agency so that won’t be cheap. If I were Teddy, I would want to test the market knowing that. See Brock Osweiler.

    Again, contrast that with having someone on a five year rookie contract and it’s not even comparable.

    And I’m really not trying to be a negative Nancy but is it likely we make a deep playoff run this year given the way things are looking in our division and conference? No, not likely. If Teddy leaves is it likely we are back in the playoffs next year? No, not likely. If the goal is to compete for multiple years for a championship, I would propose that Teddy was a bad choice. If the goal was to simply do somewhat better than previous years (not a lofty goal) then it’s okay and whoever is in that camp should enjoy this while it lasts.
    To permit irresponsible authority is to sell disaster. (Heinlein)...like Broncos season tickets!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Humberg View Post

      If he continues to play well, sure the desire to have him back would be there. But it’s about the $$$$$.

      Would you be willing to pay him franchise money for a multi year contract that would freeze you at that position and potentially other positions based on what he did this year? Teams ALWAYS over pay in free agency so that won’t be cheap. If I were Teddy, I would want to test the market knowing that. See Brock Osweiler.

      Again, contrast that with having someone on a five year rookie contract and it’s not even comparable.

      And I’m really not trying to be a negative Nancy but is it likely we make a deep playoff run this year given the way things are looking in our division and conference? No, not likely. If Teddy leaves is it likely we are back in the playoffs next year? No, not likely. If the goal is to compete for multiple years for a championship, I would propose that Teddy was a bad choice. If the goal was to simply do somewhat better than previous years (not a lofty goal) then it’s okay and whoever is in that camp should enjoy this while it lasts.
      I think that generally the FO works on both goals simultaneously. It's not a zero sum game where you have to pick one or the other. We should always be working towards a) winning now. b) building the future. The only acceptable situation where that may not be the case is if you're on the cusp and you do whatever possible to win now even at a cost towards the future. Trying to do the opposite as a GM (e.g. like a Suck for Luck campaign) seems attractive to some fans, but as a GM, it's a good way to get scapegoated.

      Prior to the start of the year, we were the favorites this last offseason to get Aaron Rodgers, and also the favorites to land him next offseason. If we can afford to do that (we can) we can afford whatever they would agree to with Teddy. Osweiler actually left for a pittance more than what we offered, and did us a favor in the process. He was salty.

      We can afford to pay Bridgewater whatever the market would dictate at that point, he is a smart guy who would also recognize he's best off in a situation he succeeds in, and he'd also be likely to be appreciative of him getting this opportunity to begin with. He's not going to want to go to another rough situation like he had last year. I would be surprised if we couldn't bring him back if he does well the rest of the season.

      He's got another 6-8 years in him. That's plenty as far as working for the goal of competing for multiple years.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by LordTrychon View Post

        I think that generally the FO works on both goals simultaneously. It's not a zero sum game where you have to pick one or the other. We should always be working towards a) winning now. b) building the future. The only acceptable situation where that may not be the case is if you're on the cusp and you do whatever possible to win now even at a cost towards the future. Trying to do the opposite as a GM (e.g. like a Suck for Luck campaign) seems attractive to some fans, but as a GM, it's a good way to get scapegoated.

        Prior to the start of the year, we were the favorites this last offseason to get Aaron Rodgers, and also the favorites to land him next offseason. If we can afford to do that (we can) we can afford whatever they would agree to with Teddy. Osweiler actually left for a pittance more than what we offered, and did us a favor in the process. He was salty.

        We can afford to pay Bridgewater whatever the market would dictate at that point, he is a smart guy who would also recognize he's best off in a situation he succeeds in, and he'd also be likely to be appreciative of him getting this opportunity to begin with. He's not going to want to go to another rough situation like he had last year. I would be surprised if we couldn't bring him back if he does well the rest of the season.

        He's got another 6-8 years in him. That's plenty as far as working for the goal of competing for multiple years.
        I just do not know if you can build your team around a Journey Man QB. Look Teddy is playing out of his mind however this is vs lesser opponents. I want to see how does Teddy do vs the Ravens, Steelers, Chiefs, Bills, Chargers, Raiders before I would commit to a Long Term Contract. As of now I give Teddy all the PROPS so far this Year because he as of now as of this year so far put to rest of the title of Checkdown Teddy and even when he does check it down it is the right call and let your play makers like J.Will to make the plays. However Teddys Deep Ball to Sutton was EPIC !!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by DENVERSB50CHAMP View Post

          I just do not know if you can build your team around a Journey Man QB. Look Teddy is playing out of his mind however this is vs lesser opponents. I want to see how does Teddy do vs the Ravens, Steelers, Chiefs, Bills, Chargers, Raiders before I would commit to a Long Term Contract. As of now I give Teddy all the PROPS so far this Year because he as of now as of this year so far put to rest of the title of Checkdown Teddy and even when he does check it down it is the right call and let your play makers like J.Will to make the plays. However Teddys Deep Ball to Sutton was EPIC !!
          I fully agree with most of what you've said here. Nobody is saying we should extend Teddy right this instant... I said that if he continues to play on this level, I don't see why he would not extend or re-sign with us.

          I'm giddyscaredexcited to see how we look after another 4-5 weeks and a bit stiffer competition as well.

          I don't think it's entirely fair to look at Bridgewater as a standard Journeyman QB though. Minny pretty much had to move on reluctantly from him, as he was still essentially recovering. The Jets traded him so that they could throw Darnold into the fire without the fans calling for Teddy to come in to save them. Great move for Teddy's career, bad move by Jets (as can be assumed regarding most Jets QB moves).

          Saints snagged that great deal, and he was 5-0 as a starter for them. By all accounts they would have loved to have kept him, but Brees wasn't ready to retire, and they couldn't afford to keep both.

          His year in Carolina was bad, and if every stop he'd been at looked like that... then yes, he'd be a pretty standard Journeyman.

          But that's mostly neither here nor there. The primary point was that if he continues to play at this level (as I'm sure we'd all love to see)... it's not unreasonable at all to see him as a longer-term answer rather than a one year rental.

          But we're all trying to read crystal balls and tea leaves as far as that goes.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by LordTrychon View Post



            I'm giddyscaredexcited to see how we look after another 4-5 weeks and a bit stiffer competition as well.

            .
            Bust me up !!!!

            Comment


            • I’ m all for giving Bridgewater respect for how he is playing and leading the team. He seems to have the trust of his teammates and the team is better for it.

              But I am not ready to start talking about long term contracts and him being the Franchise QB just yet. He has a long season to navigate. I remain cautiously optimistic but he is still the same player with the same strengths and weaknesses.

              Just because he has heaved a few long passes does not diminish his tendency to check down or have a questionable arm.

              Some of those “epic” throws were at the very end of his abilities. When he has time to step into the throw he can make the throw. Barely! There is a reason the defenders are closing the gap on the WRs and dislodging or making immediate tackles. The ball is hanging in the air due to his trajectory and arm strength. Also the reason Hamler was almost decapitated by a safety on the sideline throw that took forever to get there.

              Was it the best decision to check down on a third and goal from the 20 yard line? Did McManus need that extra 5yards to make the FG?

              Bridgewater is Bridgewater. Not much surprising except how the team is rallying around him. No issues with them continuing to do it or him continuing to play well. A win is a win.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by FR Tim View Post
                I’ m all for giving Bridgewater respect for how he is playing and leading the team. He seems to have the trust of his teammates and the team is better for it.

                But I am not ready to start talking about long term contracts and him being the Franchise QB just yet. He has a long season to navigate. I remain cautiously optimistic but he is still the same player with the same strengths and weaknesses.

                Just because he has heaved a few long passes does not diminish his tendency to check down or have a questionable arm.

                Some of those “epic” throws were at the very end of his abilities. When he has time to step into the throw he can make the throw. Barely! There is a reason the defenders are closing the gap on the WRs and dislodging or making immediate tackles. The ball is hanging in the air due to his trajectory and arm strength. Also the reason Hamler was almost decapitated by a safety on the sideline throw that took forever to get there.

                Was it the best decision to check down on a third and goal from the 20 yard line? Did McManus need that extra 5yards to make the FG?

                Bridgewater is Bridgewater. Not much surprising except how the team is rallying around him. No issues with them continuing to do it or him continuing to play well. A win is a win.
                On that check down from 3rd and goal, only 1 WR ran a route to the end zone. Patrick/Fant both ran a 5 yard In route with Sutton on the opposite side running a 10 yard In route. Hamler was running a corner route right into the deep third of a Cover 3 and he gave it a slow release to boot so he was only 10 yards down the field by the time the ball came out. That isn’t a Bridgewater checking it down tendency, that’s Pat Shurmur making sure that they get points out of the drive.

                The deep throw where Sutton was held, Bridgewater didn’t even climb and really load up and step into the throw so I don’t think that was his limit or just barely getting far enough. He just casually put it in the perfect spot and if not for the hold it’s a big TD.

                The deep throw that nearly got picked off the deflection, yes Bridgewater underthrew that pass. But this was after the previous deep ball where he just barely overthrew Sutton. I’m willing to bet Bridgewater, not necessarily purposely, underthrew it, but was making a concerted effort not to overthrow him. Bridgewater said as much after the game, granted he was talking about the one that was completed, but it looks like he had the same idea on this throw. I personally think the CB was early and it should’ve been DPI but it was close.

                The throw to Hamler wasn’t bad because the ball took too long to get there although it down show the limitations on Bridgewater’s arm albeit in a different way. Hamler ran a streak, the Jags were in something of an inverted Cover 2 zone (FS had a deep half and the RCB had the other deep half with the SS lurking in the middle) with a soft flat but they were showing a Cover 1 alignment. The ball was on the left hash, and the ball being on the left hash is the big deal here. Because it’s on the left hash, anything deep to the right side of the field doesn’t concern the defense because Teddy does have an average arm because of this they can really sell a Cover 1 look because the other S doesn’t need to get as much depth in his drop. Basically any target on the right was going to see a lot of defenders around him and nothing was open on that side anyway, Spencer came open eventually but only after Bridgewater threw it and the LB vacated the zone that Spencer would’ve ran through. I don’t know if Bridgewater was fooled or not, he likely saw the LBs showing blitz presnap drop back into coverage post snap but at that point it still could’ve been Cover 3. If it is Cover 3, then he knows Spencer shouldn’t be open nor would Patrick have been. Fant and the RB (I think Gordon) both blocked before releasing so they weren’t primary reads. So Hamler would’ve been the only read and then the check down would’ve been next if he thought it was Cover 3. But he definitely sees the CB and how his hips are aligned as he looks towards Hamler which gives it away that it’s Cover 2. In Cover 2 there is a window between the CB and S that you can fit it into and that’s what it appeared Teddy was going for however it didn’t work because the FS has nothing to fear on the other side deep and since the SS was lurking in the middle (around the soft spot for TEs against Cover 2) he also had no reason to stay in the middle. And since he’s on the left hash, he has a much shorter distance to get over the top than if we lined up further to the right. Now, Teddy probably could’ve held him longer and let Hamler get closer to being even so he could bomb it or he could’ve held him, looked right, and then back to Hamler to bomb it but there’s no guarantee that keeps the FS from getting to his assignment. Long story short, yes Teddy has an average arm and the Jags were trying to bait him into making that throw because of where we were aligned on the field. But that isn’t to say there isn’t anything Teddy can’t do to counter that and overcome it.

                The deep completion to Sutton, there was a little more of a load up and step into this throw than the earlier one where Sutton was held, but it still doesn’t look like he’s putting everything he can into it, he still made it look casual.

                Teddy does have an average arm, but an average arm in the NFL can still throw the ball 60 yards down the field. Trajectory and ball velocity only matter if your QB has no sense of timing. Teddy has had these arm strength issues all his life and he’s a smart QB so he’s figured out that if he can identify what coverage she’ll the defense is in quickly and get the ball out quickly, he can still complete these deep balls. Peyton Manning was the same way for his entire career. Bridgewater isn’t on Manning’s level mentally, but he’s better at processing defenses than a lot of QBs. Where trajectory and velocity really come into play, is more horizontally than vertically and even then timing is more important. Look at the pass Hinton caught, we were on the right hash with Hinton on the far left. Hinton ran a curl route but he stemmed the route even further outside making it a longer throw for Teddy. Now because Teddy knew they were in man, he knew all he had to do was throw it with good timing and he did and it was a relatively easy completion to our practice squad WR. On the flip side, Lawrence threw an out route with about 30 seconds left in the first half. They were lined up on the left hash and he threw it to the WR running and out route on the far right. Lawrence has a much bigger arm than Bridgewater but because he doesn’t really have a good feel for reading defenses and a good sense of timing the ball came out late and hung in the air for what seemed like forever so Callahan could recover from his nickel spot and bat the ball out of bounds. Arm strength is great to have and it gives you a lot more leeway as a QB but it’s useless if you can’t process a defense and get the ball out on time.

                Teddy has to prove that he can keep this up obviously, but I haven’t seen anything so far in his time with the Broncos to suggest he can’t. And dare I say, Teddy really hasn’t started a ton of games for as long as he’s been in the league, he could actually still improve. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady have shown us that there isn’t a cap to what you can do mentally on the football field and Teddy can still improve in that area despite being very good already.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by LordTrychon View Post

                  I think that generally the FO works on both goals simultaneously. It's not a zero sum game where you have to pick one or the other. We should always be working towards a) winning now. b) building the future. The only acceptable situation where that may not be the case is if you're on the cusp and you do whatever possible to win now even at a cost towards the future. Trying to do the opposite as a GM (e.g. like a Suck for Luck campaign) seems attractive to some fans, but as a GM, it's a good way to get scapegoated.

                  Prior to the start of the year, we were the favorites this last offseason to get Aaron Rodgers, and also the favorites to land him next offseason. If we can afford to do that (we can) we can afford whatever they would agree to with Teddy. Osweiler actually left for a pittance more than what we offered, and did us a favor in the process. He was salty.

                  We can afford to pay Bridgewater whatever the market would dictate at that point, he is a smart guy who would also recognize he's best off in a situation he succeeds in, and he'd also be likely to be appreciative of him getting this opportunity to begin with. He's not going to want to go to another rough situation like he had last year. I would be surprised if we couldn't bring him back if he does well the rest of the season.

                  He's got another 6-8 years in him. That's plenty as far as working for the goal of competing for multiple years.
                  Oh wow. I guess I’m not arguing the Broncos could afford him, it’s whether they would. Wow. You’d really give franchise level money on a multi year contract to him if he plays well this year? That would be gambling the team future on anything but a sure thing. A one hit wonder in TB’s career does not make him a franchise QB obviously.

                  And that’s the kind of free agency craziness that I would expect if he leads us to the playoffs which is what you are saying. And when money starts being thrown around, and these guys have to look out for their future knowing they have a limited time to make maximum income for their short time in the NFL, loyalty does (and arguably should) take a back seat to $$.

                  From a pure business perspective, no matter how he does this year, it makes zero sense to resign Teddy for 2022.

                  To permit irresponsible authority is to sell disaster. (Heinlein)...like Broncos season tickets!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by DENVERSB50CHAMP View Post

                    I just do not know if you can build your team around a Journey Man QB. Look Teddy is playing out of his mind however this is vs lesser opponents. I want to see how does Teddy do vs the Ravens, Steelers, Chiefs, Bills, Chargers, Raiders before I would commit to a Long Term Contract. As of now I give Teddy all the PROPS so far this Year because he as of now as of this year so far put to rest of the title of Checkdown Teddy and even when he does check it down it is the right call and let your play makers like J.Will to make the plays. However Teddys Deep Ball to Sutton was EPIC !!
                    I like how after all these crappy qbs we have had in denver we consider 260 yds and 2 tds "playing out of his mind". Dont get me wrong hes playing very efficient against some bad teams and we can continue to win a lot of games if he keeps it up. If a top 10 qb in the nfl put up numbers like he has the first two weeks the rest of the league would probably say "eh, he did alright"

                    I dont think you give teddy another contract regardless of how he plays this year. Even just a reasonable contract is going to be 25 mil a year most likely. All for a journeyman qb who is essentially a one year wonder (assuming he kept up this level of play). The only thing that would make sense would be to sign him for another 1 year deal and make him prove it again.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Starbroncs View Post

                      I like how after all these crappy qbs we have had in denver we consider 260 yds and 2 tds "playing out of his mind". Dont get me wrong hes playing very efficient against some bad teams and we can continue to win a lot of games if he keeps it up. If a top 10 qb in the nfl put up numbers like he has the first two weeks the rest of the league would probably say "eh, he did alright"

                      I dont think you give teddy another contract regardless of how he plays this year. Even just a reasonable contract is going to be 25 mil a year most likely. All for a journeyman qb who is essentially a one year wonder (assuming he kept up this level of play). The only thing that would make sense would be to sign him for another 1 year deal and make him prove it again.
                      Sure, if all you did was look at a stat sheet then you wouldn't really understand how well he actually played. And I wouldn't call him a one year wonder. He won 'Rookie Of The Year' for his 2014 season. It's not like he has been crap up until now. He was highly regarded before a horrific injury. If what he has done so far this season is a true indicator of what he is at the QB position then he is worth $25 MIL a year in today's NFL. No doubt about it and they'd be stupid not to even consider giving it to him.
                      Adopt-A-Bronco: Jonathon Cooper

                      Comment


                      • For sure Denver have played very average teams, but we've done what was needed. Tougher times ahead for sure... even the trappy Jets game.

                        Momentum and consistent QB play can go a long way.. Well done Teddy... this is your team and you've been 100%. Leadership is so underrated..

                        3-0 sounds fantastic... Let's hope we can get there, because Baltimore look scarily fast on both sides of the ball.

                        Keep the faith.. we have an improving team.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by listopencil View Post

                          Sure, if all you did was look at a stat sheet then you wouldn't really understand how well he actually played. And I wouldn't call him a one year wonder. He won 'Rookie Of The Year' for his 2014 season. It's not like he has been crap up until now. He was highly regarded before a horrific injury. If what he has done so far this season is a true indicator of what he is at the QB position then he is worth $25 MIL a year in today's NFL. No doubt about it and they'd be stupid not to even consider giving it to him.
                          14 tds, 12 ints and less than 3k yards is pretty pedestrian in modern nfl even for a rookie. He didnt do too much better the next year and had a pretty awful year with the panthers. The guy barely averages 1 td a game and has a career high of 15 in a season. Thats pretty bad, yea ive been watching the games this year and he has done way better than I expected. However my expectations were pretty low and I think bronco fans are desperate for just average QB play.

                          Hes doing well, he has been efficient. He also is surrounded by talent on a team that doesnt have to pay a gigantic QB contract. Teddy has never proven that he can be a franchise qb, I just dont think its wise to commit heavily to him based on 1 season of good play. Again, this is assuming he continues to play as well as he has.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Starbroncs View Post

                            14 tds, 12 ints and less than 3k yards is pretty pedestrian in modern nfl even for a rookie. He didnt do too much better the next year and had a pretty awful year with the panthers. The guy barely averages 1 td a game and has a career high of 15 in a season. Thats pretty bad, yea ive been watching the games this year and he has done way better than I expected. However my expectations were pretty low and I think bronco fans are desperate for just average QB play.

                            Hes doing well, he has been efficient. He also is surrounded by talent on a team that doesnt have to pay a gigantic QB contract. Teddy has never proven that he can be a franchise qb, I just dont think its wise to commit heavily to him based on 1 season of good play. Again, this is assuming he continues to play as well as he has.
                            If that's pedestrian for a rookie then why did he win Rookie Of The Year for his performance? And, yup, we've had bad QB play for several years now. Laughably bad. Having a competent QB sure is refreshing for a change. I'd say that assuming he can pull this off for an entire season (and that's a big if) he's better than what were going to get elsewhere for a few years.
                            Adopt-A-Bronco: Jonathon Cooper

                            Comment


                            • By the way I feel like I should clarify those Rookie Of The Year numbers. His 'less than 3k yards' was 2919. So 81 less than 3k yards.

                              Bridgewater passed for 2,919 yards and 14 touchdowns in 13 games after being selected 32nd in the 2014 NFL Draft. The Vikings were 6-6 in his 12 starts, with victories over the Falcons, Panthers and Bears among others.

                              https://www.nfl.com/news/teddy-bridg...p3000000466226


                              The guy's not a one year wonder.
                              Adopt-A-Bronco: Jonathon Cooper

                              Comment


                              • Seems like people that don't like Teddy (or don't think he's a great answer) feel like we're going to give out some Mahommes level money for him if he still can't top his 15TD best year.

                                Nobody is suggesting we do that or that it would be a good idea to do so.

                                I would agree that giving Teddy Bridgewater the same money we'd give Aaron Rodgers would be a bad call if he only throws 11 more TDs this year.

                                I normally am one to jump in and support talking about just about anything on a message board, as that's what they're there for... but maybe it's just too early to be having this conversation.

                                Maybe Teddy's performance drops off the rest of the year. We have played some weak teams.

                                I'm sure he probably won't get 0 Ints the rest of the year. I'm also pretty sure (barring injuries) that he's going to top 15 TDs.

                                If the Broncos gave him a $50M/yr contract, that would probably be a mistake.

                                If they gave him a $20-$25M/yr for 2-3 years and then had a lot of cap space to keep towards keeping our other great talent, that would be acceptable to me if we make the playoffs.

                                Overpaying a QB based on one year can be bad, for sure. So can letting a QB go who leads you to the playoffs for the first time in 5 years, when you've been crying for a QB who can do that for 5 years.

                                And yes, I think that Teddy would be willing to see the overall longer-term gain of not making us overpay him on one year. He's already done the 'overpaid in a bad team/situation' last year. I think he'd prefer to be here under those circumstances... where he knows he can succeed.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X