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The 2021 QB Crow thread

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  • DENVERSB50CHAMP
    replied
    Originally posted by Hadez View Post
    After the horrible effort Teddy deserves the hate. I would rather have a QB who will block on run plays and throw slants than whatever Teddy allegedly adds to a football team.

    Every snap the Broncos allow that coward Teddy to take shows they lost the 2021 QB Crow thread imo

    Spot On !!

    Leave a comment:


  • RocketArm006
    replied
    Originally posted by Hadez View Post
    We probably do not have a qb imo because if the coaching we picked.

    Do we pass Allen if we have an offensive head coach and take a defensive blue chip prospect? Do we pass on Mac Jones / Fields for another blue chip defensive prospect? If we have an offensive coach do they maybe push for a trade to get Mahomes or another qb?

    I get it sucks to swing and miss but never taking a swing is not the answer either.
    This is the problem with the organization. Old school thinking with old school coaches who want a safe vet QB. Same results year in and year out. I agree. I’d rather take a swing on a blue chip QB than constantly bring in washed up vet QBs.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hadez
    replied
    We probably do not have a qb imo because if the coaching we picked.

    Do we pass Allen if we have an offensive head coach and take a defensive blue chip prospect? Do we pass on Mac Jones / Fields for another blue chip defensive prospect? If we have an offensive coach do they maybe push for a trade to get Mahomes or another qb?

    I get it sucks to swing and miss but never taking a swing is not the answer either.

    Leave a comment:


  • FR Tim
    replied
    The question of what are the suggestions for a plan go deeper then which QB is drafted, signed, or traded for.

    IMO it revolves more around the coaching concepts and system. Who are the Broncos? What is their offensive philosophy? Do they draft or sign the players to support these systems? At the moment, I don’t think they are in any way stable or have a direction.

    The QBs ( Jackson, Allen, Fields, Jones) mentioned above as “ missed opportunities”. Would any of them be utilized as they should or developed to their current levels of success with the revolving coaches and changing systems the Broncos have had over the last few years?

    Impatience and poor decisions of OCs are just as critical ( arguably more) then the choice of QB. IMO the QBs mentioned would have been mismanaged and squandered the development as most bad teams do.

    Fix the coaching and settle on an identity first, then develop a QB in that system.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hadez
    replied
    After the horrible effort Teddy deserves the hate. I would rather have a QB who will block on run plays and throw slants than whatever Teddy allegedly adds to a football team.

    Every snap the Broncos allow that coward Teddy to take shows they lost the 2021 QB Crow thread imo

    Leave a comment:


  • BroncoFanDK
    replied
    Originally posted by Humberg View Post

    This is what I find perplexing. I’m not going to say that I know for a fact that Justin Fields is the next hall of fame QB, and sure, there are some struggles but there’s also signs there of promise and viewing it through the rookie learning curve, how can you not be a little intrigued?

    And here’s the crux of what I find ridiculous about this argument. What’s the alternative? What are you proposing? I hear a number of you saying “well drafting a quarterback in the first round is far from a sure thing!” True, but then what? Don’t try? Keep taking journeyman quarterbacks that keep us dwelling in the halls of irrelevance? Are you suggesting that drafting a quarterback in the second round gives us a better chance? For those of you citing stats centered around Tom Brady do you advocate we only select quarterbacks in the sixth round? Are any of you bold (and silly) enough to argue that we have a higher statistical chance of finding a starting quarterback those other ways? Do you really think that it’s more likely we trade for Rogers or Watson? Those are blockbuster deals, Bradford was a huge trade that you just don’t see very often in the NFL, a high price paid, and Bradford is no Rogers or Watson to be sure.

    For those of you throwing up the four games Lock had as a rookie before he completely regressed, is Lock your plan for the future moving forward? Shall we sign him to a big contract? Really? Oh we’re just going to ignore last year? OTA’s? Training camp? Preseason? He was stellar coming in when TB got hurt right? Oh wait….hmmmm.

    I hear a lot of posters saying that continually passing on a quarterback in the first round is the right way to go. Well, what’s your proposal to fix that position because that is the approach we have been taking and the quarterback room has been utterly broken for seven years. Your approach has been tried and has failed to this point so the burden of proof is on you to argue why we shouldn’t take a different approach.

    And before you get too comfortable with Teddy B, remember, he’s destined to be a one year starter for us. If he’s good enough (debatable) to get us in to the playoffs, his free agency price tag is going to be probably bigger than we could (or should) afford. If he’s not good enough to get us into the playoffs, why would you pursue and overpay him? So what’s your realistic plan for 2022? I know one thing, there is more hope for the quarterback position in Chicago to vastly improve over the next few years than we have in Denver.

    Yes, drafting a QB in the first round will produce the Paxton Lynch’s and Tim Tebow’s of the world (although I would argue that Tebow was not a valid first round pick as nobody else other than McD thought so). And I’ll admit, Fields may turn out to be a bust. Trying in this world is sometimes going to fail. But sticking with it would have gotten us Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Justin Fields, Mac Jones. I would rather have any of those quarterbacks right now than what we have. Are you saying that you wouldn’t? And do you really think that Chubb, Jeudy and Surtain are more valuable than a legit starting quarterback? Are they going to be the missing cog in the wheel that is going to propel us to a championship? I don’t think so. Why you ask? Show me a division leader without a franchise quarterback right now in the NFL. Which is exactly why all of those players have been mentioned in the trade scenarios if a trade at quarterback were to happen. It’s because none of them are near as important as a legit, starting NFL quarterback. It’s a QB driven league, most important position in all of football and that even includes the coaches.

    And if the goal is to win a super bowl, bar none there has been no higher yield area to find a super bowl winning quarterback than the first round of the draft. Nothing else is even close and even that includes the unicorns like Tom Brady.

    So I’m calling out the posters that throw shade on Justin Fields. Instead of just ripping the idea of drafting him, give your long term solution at the quarterback position and make the argument for why that is a better way to go. I’m doubtful that you’ll be able to as I suspect once you stop defending the team decisions and strip away the Orange colored glasses and Kool-aid, there isn’t a whole lot of substance there for an alternative plan.
    While it seems that agendas seem to spill over into QB evaluation for many, but to denigate ex. Tebow and put Fields on a pedestal seems real absurd. In the 3 games of his rookie season Tebow had produced the longest rushing TD ever by a Denver QB, set the Denver Rookie single game passing record, produced the then largest points comeback of any QB in Broncos history, set the NFL record as the first QB in history to score a Passing and Rushing TD in each of his first 3 games. 4th game he set the NFL record for points comeback within 3 minutes of a game, and tied Elway's career for 14+ point comebacks. By game 8 where Fields is now we were in the middle of a 6 game winning streak where at the same time he set the NFL all time record for getting to 6 GWDs.

    While Tebow is hated by many for his views etc. that does not negate that his run blows the socks of most QBs and he did so on a team with a coaching staff that has never before or since had success with young QBs.

    Outside top 11 the impact QBs are rather few and far between, and with the draft pick value charts it might make more sense to trade down so you can pick 2 or 3 QBs on day 2, because the Russell Wilsons and Dak Prescotts are not more rare than the picking a late first round franchise QB. Lets also not discount that coaching has a massive impact on the play of a QB, and aside from Kubiak, I am not sure that we have had a positive coaching influence in the John Elway era. It was impressive to see what Kubiak could do with the corpse of Manning that Fox couldn't do with Old Manning, and how Kubes had Osweiler and Siemian playing and later seing how inept Os and Siemian seemed under other coaching.

    The hate on Bridgewater is immense given how much blame there is to go around for not being able to produce in the red zone for several years.


    Leave a comment:


  • Locutus
    replied
    Originally posted by Humberg View Post

    Maybe you are right. He certainly looked better his rookie season and has looked like trash since. However, it’s also possible that after those games his rookie year, teams then had film on him and could game plan him and he’s just not good enough to progress beyond that.

    You see this all the time with beginner’s luck quarterbacks (see Trevor Siemien). They are ok when the other team can’t game plan against their specific tendencies, but once the defense is able to do this they just aren’t good enough to play against a game planned NFL defense. I think Lock probably falls into this category.
    I am right. Look at Baker mayfield compared to when they didn’t have their current HC

    Leave a comment:


  • Locutus
    replied
    Originally posted by Humberg View Post

    Maybe you are right. He certainly looked better his rookie season and has looked like trash since. However, it’s also possible that after those games his rookie year, teams then had film on him and could game plan him and he’s just not good enough to progress beyond that.

    You see this all the time with beginner’s luck quarterbacks (see Trevor Siemien). They are ok when the other team can’t game plan against their specific tendencies, but once the defense is able to do this they just aren’t good enough to play against a game planned NFL defense. I think Lock probably falls into this category.
    assuming it’s beginners luck. Which it likely isn’t. Fortunately for any NFL Franchise you’re not a FO type.

    Leave a comment:


  • Humberg
    replied
    Originally posted by Locutus View Post
    Coaching matters, Scangerello had Lock looking like he was the future of the team, then came Schurmer….
    Maybe you are right. He certainly looked better his rookie season and has looked like trash since. However, it’s also possible that after those games his rookie year, teams then had film on him and could game plan him and he’s just not good enough to progress beyond that.

    You see this all the time with beginner’s luck quarterbacks (see Trevor Siemien). They are ok when the other team can’t game plan against their specific tendencies, but once the defense is able to do this they just aren’t good enough to play against a game planned NFL defense. I think Lock probably falls into this category.

    Leave a comment:


  • Locutus
    replied
    Originally posted by Humberg View Post

    Maybe. I know you and I have disagreed on this before. To be clear, I agree Shurmer should have been on his way out of town in the off season. On the other hand…

    Daniel Jones did okay under him. And in the end you can’t make chicken soup out of chicken poop. And poop is all Shurmer has to work with right now. He is not working with a quarterback room that has starting NFL talent, so….
    Coaching matters, Scangerello had Lock looking like he was the future of the team, then came Schurmer….

    Leave a comment:


  • DEN4EVER
    replied
    Originally posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
    Teddy deactivated all his social media lololol
    What the internet is going to do to him with that tackle is gonna be nothing short of absolute savagery.
    He earned it.

    Leave a comment:


  • CoryWinget81
    replied
    Teddy deactivated all his social media lololol

    Leave a comment:


  • broncolee
    replied
    Originally posted by Humberg View Post

    Maybe. I know you and I have disagreed on this before. To be clear, I agree Shurmer should have been on his way out of town in the off season. On the other hand…

    Daniel Jones did okay under him. And in the end you can’t make chicken soup out of chicken poop. And poop is all Shurmer has to work with right now. He is not working with a quarterback room that has starting NFL talent, so….
    I would almost be surprised if Daniel Jones gets a second contract. The only reason I wouldn’t be is because I’m not sure Gettleman’s ego can take the blow.

    Shurmur refuses to adjust his scheme to the talent he has. His running backs are effective and he refuses to use them effectively over the course of the game. He doesn’t consistently put his quarterback or offense in a position to succeed.

    Leave a comment:


  • Humberg
    replied
    Originally posted by Megalodon30 View Post

    I don’t want to see any young QB in Denver until Shurmur is gone. He’s been here a year and a half and every QB he’s had looks like utter garbage. At some point you need to stop blaming the talent you have and take a serious look at how they’re being used.
    Maybe. I know you and I have disagreed on this before. To be clear, I agree Shurmer should have been on his way out of town in the off season. On the other hand…

    Daniel Jones did okay under him. And in the end you can’t make chicken soup out of chicken poop. And poop is all Shurmer has to work with right now. He is not working with a quarterback room that has starting NFL talent, so….

    Leave a comment:


  • broncolee
    replied
    Originally posted by Megalodon30 View Post

    Jones is limited. Dude looks good in an offense that is designed to make QBs look good. There’s no reason to believe he’s any better than Matt Cassel at this point yet.
    If the Broncos were to have drafted a quarterback, Jones is the one they should have drafted. He is the only one of the first rounders that had a chance to succeed in Denver with this coaching staff.

    Going into the draft, I thought Lock was going to get a legitimate chance to be the starter so I wanted Micah Parsons. If I thought they had given up on Lock, I would have wanted Fields or Jones. Realizing now just how inept Shurmur is as a coach, Jones would have been the better choice of the two, even though Fields has the greater upside.

    Leave a comment:

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