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Pat Shurmur was awful today

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  • Originally posted by flosstein View Post
    Pat Shurmur is to offense what Mike Nolan is to defense.
    LOL So True Sad Times Unreal.

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    • Originally posted by Megalodon30 View Post

      Drew Lock has started 2 games. The scoring problems go back farther than that. Tell me, what offensive coordinator could design an offense in today’s game wherein your top 2 WRs have a combined 2 total TDs through a whole season? The QBs aren’t the problem, the play caller is.

      There is no good reason Courtland Sutton and Jerry Jeudy should have that few touchdowns this far into the season unless we have an offense that has zero idea how to use them correctly. Shurmur’s offense stinks and it matters not even a little who is under center.
      I must admit I find it a bit of a stretch to rid Teddy and Drew of responsibility for the poor offensive showing as their limitations and flaws are pretty obvious - Lock's in running, understanding the offense and constantly missing routes coming open, and Teddy throwing too many missed first downs and too many plays that are unproductive.

      There is no way that the OC is more important than the QB for the offense and for not getting the ball to Jeudy and Sutton.

      Originally posted by armedequation View Post

      Shurmurs best qb work was when he coached mcnabb and even thats open for debate as andy reid was the head coach.

      in fact an argument can be made qbs have either not improved or regressed in every single place shurmur has been. Yes there has been a season or 2 where a qb had a decent year under him but its always been debated about whether shurmur was responsible for that or not.

      as mega pointed out there isnt much difference in the outcome between teddy and what drew did last year offensively. The one consistant thing between the 2 has been the offensive play calling.
      You don't think there is a difference between 50% win rate and 30%?
      You don't think there is a difference between 18td to 7int and 16td to 15int?
      You don't think there is a difference between 67% completion and 57% completion
      You don't think there is a difference between 95 and 75 passer rate
      You don't think there is a difference between ....... WOW



      Originally posted by Skylan View Post

      Wait. Drew's drives rarely end in TDs would suggest you're implying that Teddy's commonly do? All quarterbacks have failed and failed hard under Shurmur and Fangio.

      Teddy can both have his best stats of his career and still be a bad quarterback at the same time. How many of Teddy's TD passes occurred against a prevent defense, I wonder?
      Season for strawmen?
      No, writing that Drew fails to score does not imply that Teddy succeeds, though Teddy having less than half the negative plays of Drew makes hm more solid!

      Comment


      • Pat Shurmur’s scoring offense rankings over the last 11 seasons as Offensive Coordinator/Head Coach, including 2021:

        23, 28, 19, 16, 10, 23, 13, 3, 4, 24, 30

        Shurmur had a couple of good seasons in scoring points, otherwise he’s been in the bottom half of the league for the most part.

        The Broncos will fire Shurmur after this Sunday because he’s done a poor job.


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        • Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post

          I must admit I find it a bit of a stretch to rid Teddy and Drew of responsibility for the poor offensive showing as their limitations and flaws are pretty obvious - Lock's in running, understanding the offense and constantly missing routes coming open, and Teddy throwing too many missed first downs and too many plays that are unproductive.

          There is no way that the OC is more important than the QB for the offense and for not getting the ball to Jeudy and Sutton.



          You don't think there is a difference between 50% win rate and 30%?
          You don't think there is a difference between 18td to 7int and 16td to 15int?
          You don't think there is a difference between 67% completion and 57% completion
          You don't think there is a difference between 95 and 75 passer rate
          You don't think there is a difference between ....... WOW





          Season for strawmen?
          No, writing that Drew fails to score does not imply that Teddy succeeds, though Teddy having less than half the negative plays of Drew makes hm more solid!
          Your hatred of Lock is noted. That does not absolve Shurmur of his failures to design a game plan that gets his playmakers involved more in the offense.
          Eternal Broncos Optimist

          Comment


          • Hopefully this is the last game with Fangio and Shurmur. Cheers.

            2016 Adopt-A-Bronco: CB-Chris Harris Jr.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
              Pat Shurmur’s scoring offense rankings over the last 11 seasons as Offensive Coordinator/Head Coach, including 2021:

              23, 28, 19, 16, 10, 23, 13, 3, 4, 24, 30

              Shurmur had a couple of good seasons in scoring points, otherwise he’s been in the bottom half of the league for the most part.

              The Broncos will fire Shurmur after this Sunday because he’s done a poor job.

              Preferably fired by Saturday night…
              Eternal Broncos Optimist

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
                Pat Shurmur’s scoring offense rankings over the last 11 seasons as Offensive Coordinator/Head Coach, including 2021:

                23, 28, 19, 16, 10, 23, 13, 3, 4, 24, 30

                Shurmur had a couple of good seasons in scoring points, otherwise he’s been in the bottom half of the league for the most part.

                The Broncos will fire Shurmur after this Sunday because he’s done a poor job.

                Dude's a joke. I assume those where the MN years with Diggs/Thielen. I love the Bronco receivers but they are not approaching that skill level yet.

                Truly, I wish I knew what Fangio was thinking with the hire. As a DC, Vic absolutely knows that defending Shurmer's offense isn't difficult, unless he has elite WR talent. Conspiracy me wonders if he simply wanted an OC that would constantly fail to challenge HIS defense. Maybe, just maybe, Fangio realized early in his stint that he either didn't enjoy being HC or is completely/entirely/comprehensively unsuited to be HC. Understanding his inevitable firing, he simply protected his turf so he can step back into his comfy DC role with his next team. I expect he knows there may be some nice positions available after this season of hiring/firings. TB, if Bowles leaves? Bills, if Frazier leaves? Saints, if Allen leaves? Packers? Chiefs? Cowboys? etc. Maybe he was afraid that Scangarello, with time, might begin making his "genius" look less than earth-shattering. To me, since he started, it's been apparent that he only cares about defense.

                Tin foal hat disengaged. Cheers.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post

                  I must admit I find it a bit of a stretch to rid Teddy and Drew of responsibility for the poor offensive showing as their limitations and flaws are pretty obvious - Lock's in running, understanding the offense and constantly missing routes coming open, and Teddy throwing too many missed first downs and too many plays that are unproductive.

                  There is no way that the OC is more important than the QB for the offense and for not getting the ball to Jeudy and Sutton.



                  You don't think there is a difference between 50% win rate and 30%?
                  You don't think there is a difference between 18td to 7int and 16td to 15int?
                  You don't think there is a difference between 67% completion and 57% completion
                  You don't think there is a difference between 95 and 75 passer rate
                  You don't think there is a difference between ....... WOW





                  Season for strawmen?
                  No, writing that Drew fails to score does not imply that Teddy succeeds, though Teddy having less than half the negative plays of Drew makes hm more solid!
                  Great post. Stats don't tell the whole story but they are a very useful part of the equation. So, too, is watching Drew play and he has never passed the eye test for an NFL starter, to me. Since I think Drew is more physically gifted than Teddy, his numbers should exceed Teddy's, not fall significantly behind. Shurmer is, admittedly, useless. But, it could be argued that his long-ball, pass-happy offense would suit a big-armed, more mobile, gunslinger more effectively than a conservative, re-built, gun-shy vet.

                  Contrary to opposing opinion, I don't hate Drew Lock. I simply do not believe he is an NFL level QB. The vast majority of football players reached their ceiling in college. He looks like one of those players. That said, If he becomes a successful starter in the NFL, I will happily admit I was wrong. I would enjoy seeing a player, who loves football as much as Lock, become successful.
                  Last edited by Broncos1963; 01-05-2022, 11:06 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Broncos1963 View Post

                    Great post. Stats don't tell the whole story but they are a very useful part of the equation. So, too, is watching Drew play and he has never passed the eye test for an NFL starter, to me.

                    Contrary to opposing opinion, I don't hate Drew Lock. I simply do not believe he is an NFL level QB, personally. The vast majority of football players reached their ceiling in college. He looks like one of those players. That said, I hope he finds a new team and finds success. If he becomes a successful starter in the NFL, I will happily admit I was wrong.
                    Disco........

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Megalodon30 View Post

                      Your hatred of Lock is noted. That does not absolve Shurmur of his failures to design a game plan that gets his playmakers involved more in the offense.
                      Hatret?
                      I have no hatret for Lock, I just don't think that he is very good, especially at the things that I value highest in a QB. I think his ceiling is somewhere around the level of a Brian Griese. I think it is a waste of effort for the Broncos to throw ressources after him. Unlike Cutler ex. where it was easy to see the talent Drew never really produce. I understood the fans that loved Cutler, though I never did. With Drew I hoped he would ball out in preseason and win the job over Teddy, but I have seen no reason this season that he should have it as Teddy is the better QB.
                      Is this what you label "HATE"?
                      You don't think there is a difference between 50% win rate and 30%?
                      You don't think there is a difference between 18td to 7int and 16td to 15int?
                      You don't think there is a difference between 67% completion and 57% completion
                      You don't think there is a difference between 95 and 75 passer rate

                      This is what the NFL has him at

                      Rank
                      28
                      Drew Lock
                      Denver Broncos · Year 3

                      2021 stats: 5 games | 63.2 pct | 625 pass yds | 7.2 ypa | 2 pass TD | 2 INT | 18 rush yds | 0 rush TD | 2 fumbles

                      Lock went from a promising rookie quintet of games to a disastrous second season. If the last two starts are any indication, he's made enough progress in his third season to believe he can have a career as a backup. The Broncos did not give him much help the last two weeks, but at least he avoided the catastrophic decisions that plagued him in 2020. He made more plays than the box score showed again, looking more like Teddy Bridgewater. In Lock's case, that's a good thing.



                      And this was after Teddy's last full game

                      Rank
                      18
                      Teddy Bridgewater
                      Denver Broncos · Year 8

                      2021 stats: 13 games | 67.6 pct | 2,954 pass yds | 7.3 ypa | 18 pass TD | 7 INT | 96 rush yds | 2 rush TD | 1 fumble

                      Teddy wasn't required to do much against Detroit. Denver ran the ball 18 times in their first 23 plays on the way to an early 14-0 lead. One pretty throw to Noah Fant and a lot of short completions later, Bridgewater led the Broncos to their seventh win of the season. Five of them weren't close!
                      Last edited by BroncoFanDK; 01-05-2022, 11:10 AM.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post

                        Hatret?
                        I have no hatret for Lock, I just don't think that he is very good, especially at the things that I value highest in a QB. I think his ceiling is somewhere around the level of a Brian Griese. I think it is a waste of effort for the Broncos to throw ressources after him. Unlike Cutler ex. where it was easy to see the talent Drew never really produce. I understood the fans that loved Cutler, though I never did. With Drew I hoped he would ball out in preseason and win the job over Teddy, but I have seen no reason this season that he should have it as Teddy is the better QB.
                        Is this what you label "HATE"?
                        You don't think there is a difference between 50% win rate and 30%?
                        You don't think there is a difference between 18td to 7int and 16td to 15int?
                        You don't think there is a difference between 67% completion and 57% completion
                        You don't think there is a difference between 95 and 75 passer rate
                        There’s a vast difference between Lock with a competent OC being 4-1 and having to run Shurmur’s terrible offense that have made 4 different QBs look bad.

                        Teddy has a nice completion percentage and a decent QB rating. Great. That’s why Fangio and Shurmur made him the starter. They want a safe, conservative offense with a safe, conservative passer and that’s exactly what Teddy is. Guess what? At best, that gets you a .500 season. If those are the numbers you like to see, I can’t argue with that.

                        I much prefer the potential of Lock that is unrealized in Shurmur’s milquetoast offense to seeing Teddy Bridgewater complete 70% of his passes while getting his brain scrambled just to go .500. We know Lock can win in the NFL. We know no one can win with Pat Shurmur. Best thing we can do - if we can’t land Rodgers or Wilson this offseason - is give Lock the keys day 1 next year with a coach that knows what he can do best and is actually willing to coach him. No more of this “QB competition” nonsense.
                        Eternal Broncos Optimist

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Megalodon30 View Post

                          Preferably fired by Saturday night…
                          He won't be fired, he signed a two-year contract which simply expires after the game.

                          Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Broncos1963 View Post

                            Great post. Stats don't tell the whole story but they are a very useful part of the equation. So, too, is watching Drew play and he has never passed the eye test for an NFL starter, to me. Since I think Drew is more physically gifted than Teddy, his numbers should exceed Teddy's, not fall significantly behind. Shurmer is, admittedly, useless. But, it could be argued that his long-ball, pass-happy offense would suit a big-armed, more mobile, gunslinger more effectively than a conservative, re-built, gun-shy vet.

                            Contrary to opposing opinion, I don't hate Drew Lock. I simply do not believe he is an NFL level QB. The vast majority of football players reached their ceiling in college. He looks like one of those players. That said, If he becomes a successful starter in the NFL, I will happily admit I was wrong. I would enjoy seeing a player, who loves football as much as Lock, become successful.
                            Exactly....why is it that folks can't compare, using data and yes, observation, without some form of label attached? The "hate" thing is so out of whack in the last decade or two. For some it is a convenient way of critiquing without content. Therefore it is meaningless in value.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by L.M. View Post

                              He won't be fired, he signed a two-year contract which simply expires after the game.
                              Are you saying the conversation will go like this, "Sorry man, but the contract expired. What can we do?"

                              Comment


                              • " You don't think there is a difference between 50% win rate and 30%?
                                You don't think there is a difference between 18td to 7int and 16td to 15int?
                                You don't think there is a difference between 67% completion and 57% completion
                                You don't think there is a difference between 95 and 75 passer rate
                                You don't think there is a difference between ....... WOW"

                                you want to provide some context for just spouting out numbers?

                                this thread is about how bad shurmur is as an oc yet continually say that its locks fault when he hasnt played much this year. Shurmur hasnt lasted as ANY kind of a coach ANYWHERE. Why do you think that is?

                                Bottom line is that we havent had a winning season with him calling the offense. We average what around 19 points a game against one of the weakest schedules in the nfl so one could argue that even 19 points is an inflated number.

                                So without mentioning anything related to lock, you tell us why shurmur is so good at his job?
                                Glen Haven Fire

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