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  • Originally posted by LordTrychon View Post

    Mediocre or average is a completely fair evaluation of where Teddy is at.

    Top tier backup is not.

    Where he stacks in Major QB stats -

    Top 5
    Int%

    Top 10
    Completion %

    Top 15
    Y/A
    AY/A
    Passer Rating

    Top 20
    Completions
    Attempts
    Yds
    TD
    TD%
    1D
    Y/G
    NY/A
    ANY/A

    A lot of his 'worst' stats are volume stats, and we're specifically trying to have long drawn out run-heavy drives which keep those numbers down, and we win when we do (which is more often than not!).

    If Teddy is a 'Backup' QB, then there's only ~15 starting QBs in the league, and there'd be some surprising names relegated to backup.

    This team has struggled for years to find a QB who could at least keep us competitive while we search for a long term answer. We finally got a guy who really fits that spot... decent, but not great, and everyone acts as though he's a bottom-5 QB or worse, and it's just kinda silly, tbh.

    You don't have to like him (not specifically just you here, Starbroncs), but at least be willing to be honest with yourself about how good he is.

    The biggest issue with Teddy this year has been the sacks. That's something I'd like to see improvement from him on, and it's the often overlooked number that explains a lot of why we've struggled despite having decent production in a lot of other areas.

    As beat up as our OL has been, they've been run blocking great, but take some of the blame for the sack numbers. Teddy definitely has to take a lot of the blame there as well though.
    The Top 5 INTs is statistically accurate however lacks the impact of his INTs. Three games were lost on those INTs. He also had a fumble for a turnover in one of those games. He rarely pushes the ball downfield and settles for the safest throws which result in a lot of plays that don’t convert 3rd downs. Last time I looked the offense was 26th (possibly lower) converting 3rd downs.

    He’s also one of the most sacked quarterbacks - those obviously led to a lot of failed drives which is turning the ball over.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by BroncoStampede View Post

      Yes, seems extreme to me to compare Lock to Herbert, they're not even close to being on the same level. If we disagree on that point, that's fine but im not going to argue with you about it. Good day sir.
      No one was arguing. Without zero evidence you’ve labeled something extreme. That’s your opinion however it has no merit.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by samparnell View Post

        So, you would have started Drew yesterday?
        Not without preparing him for the start

        I would have benched Teddy after the Eagles game and made Lock the starter.
        My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
        You Mad Bro?
        Don’t Be A Mean Girl

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post

          The Top 5 INTs is statistically accurate however lacks the impact of his INTs. Three games were lost on those INTs. He also had a fumble for a turnover in one of those games. He rarely pushes the ball downfield and settles for the safest throws which result in a lot of plays that don’t convert 3rd downs. Last time I looked the offense was 26th (possibly lower) converting 3rd downs.

          He’s also one of the most sacked quarterbacks - those obviously led to a lot of failed drives which is turning the ball over.
          Right.

          I forgot that all the INTs for the guys who throw more INTs than Teddy have been better INTs that help their team.

          It's true that some INTs are better/worse than others.

          What's not true is that only Teddy's INTs have hurt their team or potentially (or actually) lost them a game.

          I didn't list INTs themselves because it's hard to decide on the line of who to count not count in having low INTs (few starts, etc).

          But I'm sure that at least SOME of the 28 QBs who have thrown more INTs than Teddy have thrown some INTs that were not beneficial for their team.

          I agree that the sacks are an issue, That's why I spent the last bit of my post saying exactly that.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by LordTrychon View Post

            Right.

            I forgot that all the INTs for the guys who throw more INTs than Teddy have been better INTs that help their team.

            It's true that some INTs are better/worse than others.

            What's not true is that only Teddy's INTs have hurt their team or potentially (or actually) lost them a game.

            I didn't list INTs themselves because it's hard to decide on the line of who to count not count in having low INTs (few starts, etc).

            But I'm sure that at least SOME of the 28 QBs who have thrown more INTs than Teddy have thrown some INTs that were not beneficial for their team.

            I agree that the sacks are an issue, That's why I spent the last bit of my post saying exactly that.
            In Teddy’s case those INTs literally cost the Broncos those three games:

            Pittsburgh: INT in the end zone to end the game with a chance to tie. This INT sealed the loss.

            Raiders: 3 INTs and a fumble turnover. Teddy lost the game.

            Cleveland: Lost 17-14 and Teddy threw an INT in the end zone.

            He had a few INTs that directly led to a few losses.

            Good quarterbacks can generate enough production to sometimes overcome turnovers. Teddy isn’t one of them.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by broncolee View Post

              This is only necessarily true because of how the week prior to the game and the game itself played out.

              We don’t know what would have happened if Lock went into the game prepared as the starter.

              I don’t think Lock is suited to be a back up. They really should make Rypien the primary back up.

              This coaching staff is completely incompetent at developing a quarterback. The head coach fired the OC that had Lock playing like a potential franchise quarterback.
              How in the wsorld do you get that Lock was "playing like a potential franchise quarterback"?
              According to Pro-Football-Reference in 2019 he had 2 games where the offense had a positive effect on our chances to win and 3 games where offense had a negative effect!
              Lock at every turn has basically shown that his cieling was being a mediocre QB.
              Lock has come into two games and made the team worse. Why ride that train?
              He has had 18 starts and had 3 great games.

              Originally posted by broncolee View Post

              Not without preparing him for the start

              I would have benched Teddy after the Eagles game and made Lock the starter.
              Luckily (Lock-ily) you have no influence on the decisions taken!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post

                In Teddy’s case those INTs literally cost the Broncos those three games:

                Pittsburgh: INT in the end zone to end the game with a chance to tie. This INT sealed the loss.

                Raiders: 3 INTs and a fumble turnover. Teddy lost the game.

                Cleveland: Lost 17-14 and Teddy threw an INT in the end zone.

                He had a few INTs that directly led to a few losses.

                Good quarterbacks can generate enough production to sometimes overcome turnovers. Teddy isn’t one of them.
                Right.

                I understood your point.

                Now do that same breakdown for the 28 QBs that have thrown more INTs than Teddy... or are they all undefeated, and none of their INTs ever contributed to losses?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post

                  Bridgewater lost 3 games this season with INTs and he turned the ball over with a fumble in one of those games. Teddy giving the team the best chance to win depends on whether he can stay healthy - seems fragile. He needed the defense/Surtain to spot the Broncos a pick six, another INT and a missed FG. He was quite mediocre, credit for the scamper to the pylon but that wasn’t anything exceptional.

                  I’m not a defender of Lock - can’t expect a guy to play perfect when he’s coming in spot situations because Teddy can’t stay on the field. Look at Herbert’s performance yesterday - you could say the same thing about him (10 INTs this season). If the Chargers operated like the Broncos they would have benched Herbert after last season and brought in a journeyman backup like Bridgewater.
                  Wrong. Teddy didn't lose those games, he didn't win them. This is a difference you refuse to accept. Of his 5 ints, one was on the last play of the game. An incompletion or a sack were just as bad, but they wouldn't go in his INT stat column. Two of his INTs were on 4th down where we actually picked up a few yards of field position with the INTs instead of just turning the ball over on downs. In these two situations, an INT was actually better than an incompletion or sack.

                  You can say Teddy didn't make a play, but what if there isn't a play to be made? Teddy didn't lose those games.

                  BTW, Bridgewater leads the NFL for QBs that played any amount of time for the fewest fumbles and he historically fumbles very little. And you want to convince us that being the best at not fumbling makes Teddy's single fumble all season like it's worse than any other QB in the NFL. BTW, Fields had 9 INTs in his half season of playing.

                  Go ahead, tell us how bad Teddy's one single fumble is again and why his one single fumble is some much worse than all the other fumbles by QBs on this list.
                  https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/fumbles

                  PS. In anticipation of a straw man response, nowhere does my post say Teddy is a great QB or that we shouldn't try to improve that position next year.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by samparnell View Post

                    So, you would have started Drew yesterday?
                    Lucky eh.....would be 5 and 6 as we speak.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by LordTrychon View Post

                      Right.

                      I forgot that all the INTs for the guys who throw more INTs than Teddy have been better INTs that help their team.

                      It's true that some INTs are better/worse than others.

                      What's not true is that only Teddy's INTs have hurt their team or potentially (or actually) lost them a game.

                      I didn't list INTs themselves because it's hard to decide on the line of who to count not count in having low INTs (few starts, etc).

                      But I'm sure that at least SOME of the 28 QBs who have thrown more INTs than Teddy have thrown some INTs that were not beneficial for their team.

                      I agree that the sacks are an issue, That's why I spent the last bit of my post saying exactly that.
                      This whole "bad interception" argument is so weak. Very few interceptions are anything but bad. Hail Mary's. Receiver messes up. Defensive player makes incredible play. But somehow Teddy's are bad. I would suggest folks watch every interception thrown this season, and in past seasons if you are bored, and tell me you did not see a bunch of bad passes by QBs not named Bridgewater.

                      Holy cow, Lamar threw 4 yesterday, but luckily for him, his team bailed him out. It happens. But to try to articulate that a player who throws few pics, throws bad pics, is quite the leap.

                      Plus the fact that turnovers are often given a cost to a team, in an average points measurement. It's not a perfect science, but it does suggest that interceptions and fumbles lost have a way of biting you in the butt. So the more you throw, the more likely they cost you.
                      Last edited by CanDB; 11-29-2021, 10:32 AM.

                      Comment


                      • Nobody is saying Teddy is elite, I have been to every Bronco game this year except vs WFT, and I havent seen a single fan wearing a #5 jersey. The fans obviously are not sold on him yet. At this point he's a solid starter and gives the Broncos the best chance to win. I'm surprised the statement that "he is a solid QB and gives the Broncos the best chance to win" is even debatable right now. I feel like we're debating whether or not the earth is flat.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by BroncoStampede View Post
                          Nobody is saying Teddy is elite, I have been to every Bronco game this year except vs WFT, and I havent seen a single fan wearing a #5 jersey. The fans obviously are not sold on him yet. At this point he's a solid starter and gives the Broncos the best chance to win. I'm surprised the statement that "he is a solid QB and gives the Broncos the best chance to win" is even debatable right now. I feel like we're debating whether or not the earth is flat.
                          Yes....exactly. Why do we continue with this same debate, especially after a victory, 3rd of the last 4, when he was CLEARLY the right QB to start?

                          But this reminds a little bit of that season - 2015, do folks remember it? Now, lets be real, that D was not this D. Nor was the O. But most of that year there was a group of anti Manning types. Even after we won the SB, with him starting thru the playoffs. As I recall, some of them did not seem overly pleased we won our 3rd crown that year, because Manning started.

                          Haha...different time. But there's a parallel for me. Some fans will not support The Broncos if they do not get the QB starter they want.

                          Now, if that starter is still Lock they want, I would challenge their objectivity.

                          Oh yeah...here's another one we used to use a lot around here...

                          Click image for larger version

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                          Last edited by CanDB; 11-29-2021, 11:01 AM.

                          Comment


                          • Hey, you wanna talk about bad interceptions? I mean, really bad interceptions!!

                            The LA Rams were looking the part of a top contender at 7 and 1. In each of the last 3 games, all losses.....

                            Stafford has thrown a pick-6, something that only 11 QBs have done since 1950.

                            Just a little perspective.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by LordTrychon View Post

                              Right.

                              I understood your point.

                              Now do that same breakdown for the 28 QBs that have thrown more INTs than Teddy... or are they all undefeated, and none of their INTs ever contributed to losses?
                              We’re talking about the fact that Bridgewater lost three games with his INTs this season, not 28 other quarterbacks.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by lvbronx View Post

                                Wrong. Teddy didn't lose those games, he didn't win them. This is a difference you refuse to accept. Of his 5 ints, one was on the last play of the game. An incompletion or a sack were just as bad, but they wouldn't go in his INT stat column. Two of his INTs were on 4th down where we actually picked up a few yards of field position with the INTs instead of just turning the ball over on downs. In these two situations, an INT was actually better than an incompletion or sack.

                                You can say Teddy didn't make a play, but what if there isn't a play to be made? Teddy didn't lose those games.

                                BTW, Bridgewater leads the NFL for QBs that played any amount of time for the fewest fumbles and he historically fumbles very little. And you want to convince us that being the best at not fumbling makes Teddy's single fumble all season like it's worse than any other QB in the NFL. BTW, Fields had 9 INTs in his half season of playing.

                                Go ahead, tell us how bad Teddy's one single fumble is again and why his one single fumble is some much worse than all the other fumbles by QBs on this list.
                                https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/fumbles

                                PS. In anticipation of a straw man response, nowhere does my post say Teddy is a great QB or that we shouldn't try to improve that position next year.
                                The Raiders scored a TD off Teddy’s fumble turnover and he had his 3rd INT at the end of the game in good position to score a TD - 14 point swing on just 2 of his 4 turnovers. So yeah Teddy lost that game.

                                Lost the game vs Steelers with a pick in the end zone to end the game. Pick in the end zone vs Browns and lost by 3 points. Lost both those games.

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