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  • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post

    We’re talking about the fact that Bridgewater lost three games with his INTs this season, not 28 other quarterbacks.
    You don't need to tell me what we're talking about... the discussion of his ints started with a quote of my post.

    My point is/was that it's fair to say Teddy is Mediocre/Average, but it is not fair to say he's a backup QB.

    To make such a comparison, you must have something to compare against.

    I'm choosing to compare Teddy to other Starting QBs in the league. I backed up my statement to show all of the statistics where Teddy is ranked in the top 5,10, 15, or 20 QBs in the league this season.

    There are literally 3 QBs in the league right now with a lower INT%, making him a top-5 QB for that statistic.

    You chose to discuss how those INTs impacted the games. That's fair... but you are acting as though ONLY Teddy's INTs have a negative impact on the game, which is ridiculous.

    Honestly, it was probably just a poor choice to try to nitpick the statistic that best supports the idea that Teddy is at least a decent QB.



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    • Originally posted by CanDB View Post

      Yes....exactly. Why do we continue with this same debate, especially after a victory, 3rd of the last 4, when he was CLEARLY the right QB to start?

      But this reminds a little bit of that season - 2015, do folks remember it? Now, lets be real, that D was not this D. Nor was the O. But most of that year there was a group of anti Manning types. Even after we won the SB, with him starting thru the playoffs. As I recall, some of them did not seem overly pleased we won our 3rd crown that year, because Manning started.

      Haha...different time. But there's a parallel for me. Some fans will not support The Broncos if they do not get the QB starter they want.

      Now, if that starter is still Lock they want, I would challenge their objectivity.

      Oh yeah...here's another one we used to use a lot around here...

      Click image for larger version

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      Seriously...the fact that people on these forums were mad Peyton Manning was starting for the Broncos in a Superbowl Championship season tells you all you need to know about the "debates" that go on here. Some people just like to argue!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by LordTrychon View Post

        You don't need to tell me what we're talking about... the discussion of his ints started with a quote of my post.

        My point is/was that it's fair to say Teddy is Mediocre/Average, but it is not fair to say he's a backup QB.

        To make such a comparison, you must have something to compare against.

        I'm choosing to compare Teddy to other Starting QBs in the league. I backed up my statement to show all of the statistics where Teddy is ranked in the top 5,10, 15, or 20 QBs in the league this season.

        There are literally 3 QBs in the league right now with a lower INT%, making him a top-5 QB for that statistic.

        You chose to discuss how those INTs impacted the games. That's fair... but you are acting as though ONLY Teddy's INTs have a negative impact on the game, which is ridiculous.

        Honestly, it was probably just a poor choice to try to nitpick the statistic that best supports the idea that Teddy is at least a decent QB.


        Though my previous post will likely be ignored by some, I will repeat, as it sheds some perspective (in my support for you and others here who see it the same)

        Stafford has thrown a pick-6 in each of his last 3 games.....ALL LOSSES. Those losses took them from 7 and 1 to 7 and 4. I would suggest those picks had real consequences.

        Given what they did/paid to acquire him, I would also suggest those picks are worse than any group of TB's this season.

        Word of advice LT, stats that support Bridgewater are not welcome here.
        Last edited by CanDB; 11-29-2021, 12:47 PM.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by LordTrychon View Post

          You don't need to tell me what we're talking about... the discussion of his ints started with a quote of my post.

          My point is/was that it's fair to say Teddy is Mediocre/Average, but it is not fair to say he's a backup QB.

          To make such a comparison, you must have something to compare against.

          I'm choosing to compare Teddy to other Starting QBs in the league. I backed up my statement to show all of the statistics where Teddy is ranked in the top 5,10, 15, or 20 QBs in the league this season.

          There are literally 3 QBs in the league right now with a lower INT%, making him a top-5 QB for that statistic.

          You chose to discuss how those INTs impacted the games. That's fair... but you are acting as though ONLY Teddy's INTs have a negative impact on the game, which is ridiculous.

          Honestly, it was probably just a poor choice to try to nitpick the statistic that best supports the idea that Teddy is at least a decent QB.


          I'm bored, so I'll do a little bit of work here.

          The three QBs better than Teddy in INT% thus far this season are (in order) Cousins, Rodgers, and Wentz.

          Cousins - Cousins had Ints in two games they lost. Against Cleveland, threw an INT with 6:16 left in the 4th, while down by 7. They did end up getting the ball back, but they never did score, and lost by 7. Against SF, he threw an INT just a few minutes into the 3rd, but it lead to a touchdown just one play later. (Their second score in 22 seconds) Minny lost by 8.

          Rodgers - To Rodgers credit, of his 4 ints, only 2 were in a loss, and they were both in the same one. Of course, he did have a worse game that day than Teddy has had all year.

          Wentz - Against the Rams, Wentz had 1 pick, and it was only the 2nd quarter, but they were at the 3 yd line. The INT only lead to 3 points, so this was only a 6-10 pt swing in a 3 pt game. Against the Titans, with the game tied with 1:33 left in the 4th, Wentz threw a Pick-6. Then in OT, he threw another INT that ended up leading to the game losing FG. Against TB yesterday, he had two INTs. The second one was to close out the game, so that's a great example of an unimportant INT. His first one though, was in the 3rd quarter while they were leading by 3. TB scored on the following drive, and Indy never lead again in the game.

          That's JUST the three QBs who are better than Teddy with their INT% this season.

          So yes, Teddy's INTs had a negative impact. So do all QB's INTs. That doesn't make the fact that Teddy is better than nearly 90% of the league in INT% any less important or impressive.

          Is Teddy better than 90% of the starting QBs in the league? No, but he is as far as INT% this season, and his INTs are not more impactful than anybody elses. INTs are bad. Low INT%s are good.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by LordTrychon View Post

            You don't need to tell me what we're talking about... the discussion of his ints started with a quote of my post.

            My point is/was that it's fair to say Teddy is Mediocre/Average, but it is not fair to say he's a backup QB.

            To make such a comparison, you must have something to compare against.

            I'm choosing to compare Teddy to other Starting QBs in the league. I backed up my statement to show all of the statistics where Teddy is ranked in the top 5,10, 15, or 20 QBs in the league this season.

            There are literally 3 QBs in the league right now with a lower INT%, making him a top-5 QB for that statistic.

            You chose to discuss how those INTs impacted the games. That's fair... but you are acting as though ONLY Teddy's INTs have a negative impact on the game, which is ridiculous.

            Honestly, it was probably just a poor choice to try to nitpick the statistic that best supports the idea that Teddy is at least a decent QB.


            Make that comparison - do the work.

            People want to point to Teddy’s INT stat as if he’s played well this season, completely ignoring the impact of those INTs. Pointing to that stat is calling out the fact that he lost three games on that stat alone.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by CanDB View Post


              Word of advice LT, stats that support Bridgewater are not welcome here.
              Thanks, I'm new to this.

              Seriously, it's not like I'm trying to convince anyone that Teddy is top-10 QB.

              Why so much pushback on the idea that a middle of the pack QB is a middle of the pack QB?

              Top-10 is a good-great QB.

              Top-20 is middling/average/mediocre (mediocre has more negative connotations though that I think are a bit unfair for a difficult profession like NFL QB)

              Bottom 10-12 is below average or borderline backup.

              Teddy has literally one stat that says he's not at least average to above average, and that's his sacks. If you wanted to put 3rd down conversion % in there, then he has 2 stats that say he's below average. Both of those are not entirely on Teddy though, but improvement in taking sacks would improve the 3rd downs, and Teddy deserves at least a part of the blame in both.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post

                Make that comparison - do the work.

                People want to point to Teddy’s INT stat as if he’s played well this season, completely ignoring the impact of those INTs. Pointing to that stat is calling out the fact that he lost three games on that stat alone.
                Well, you were the one who was positing that his INTs are bad, so the onus on defending that statement should be on you. BUT... if you look above, I did in fact do some research on this for you.

                It's worth noting that only one of those three QBs has more wins than Teddy.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by LordTrychon View Post

                  Thanks, I'm new to this.

                  Seriously, it's not like I'm trying to convince anyone that Teddy is top-10 QB.

                  Why so much pushback on the idea that a middle of the pack QB is a middle of the pack QB?

                  Top-10 is a good-great QB.

                  Top-20 is middling/average/mediocre (mediocre has more negative connotations though that I think are a bit unfair for a difficult profession like NFL QB)

                  Bottom 10-12 is below average or borderline backup.

                  Teddy has literally one stat that says he's not at least average to above average, and that's his sacks. If you wanted to put 3rd down conversion % in there, then he has 2 stats that say he's below average. Both of those are not entirely on Teddy though, but improvement in taking sacks would improve the 3rd downs, and Teddy deserves at least a part of the blame in both.
                  I've reviewed his stats for weeks, and I read the analysts' rankings, and he typically falls 15-20 at worst. As you say, we are not doing backflips about his stellar play, but we are realistically assessing who he is and what he is expected to bring, so we are not disappointed other than here and there. If TB was a stock, he'd be performing about as expected and no worse. So why are we surprised that he is not a top 10 QB? At some point it comes down to looking for issues, even small ones. Showing support for him is not happening for some. It's a "lock" so to speak. (OH I hope not)

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by LordTrychon View Post

                    Well, you were the one who was positing that his INTs are bad, so the onus on defending that statement should be on you. BUT... if you look above, I did in fact do some research on this for you.

                    It's worth noting that only one of those three QBs has more wins than Teddy.
                    There isn’t a need to compare his INTs to anyone else - he lost three games on those 5 INTs alone. Some other quarterback’s play has zero affect on how poorly he played in those games.

                    Comment


                    • Teddy has a 50.0 QBR which is literally the definition of average for QB play as reflected in that stat. He's ranked 20th out of 32 QBs. He is ranked in the average range of NFL QBs. Case closed.

                      Just for fun - Drew Lock last year was 41.2 and ranked 29th out of 32.

                      https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/playe...djQBR/dir/desc

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                      • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post

                        Make that comparison - do the work.

                        People want to point to Teddy’s INT stat as if he’s played well this season, completely ignoring the impact of those INTs. Pointing to that stat is calling out the fact that he lost three games on that stat alone.
                        Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post

                        There isn’t a need to compare his INTs to anyone else - he lost three games on those 5 INTs alone. Some other quarterback’s play has zero affect on how poorly he played in those games.
                        Well, you literally just asked me to.

                        But if you want to do this without comparing to other QBs (even though that was the original point of all of this) -

                        INTs are bad. Throwing fewer is better. That's why his low INT% is good, even though the INTs he has thrown are bad (because INTs are bad).

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by LordTrychon View Post



                          Well, you literally just asked me to.

                          But if you want to do this without comparing to other QBs (even though that was the original point of all of this) -

                          INTs are bad. Throwing fewer is better. That's why his low INT% is good, even though the INTs he has thrown are bad (because INTs are bad).
                          Exactly. If you're lucky enough to play QB long enough, you WILL lose games with mistakes. All QB's do.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by LordTrychon View Post



                            Well, you literally just asked me to.

                            But if you want to do this without comparing to other QBs (even though that was the original point of all of this) -

                            INTs are bad. Throwing fewer is better. That's why his low INT% is good, even though the INTs he has thrown are bad (because INTs are bad).
                            The comparison to other quarterbacks is something you brought into the discussion. If that’s part of your case then do the work and bring it.

                            Saying “low INTs are good” is like saying someone only wrecked a car a low number of times is good - until you find out several people were killed as a result of those wrecks.

                            In Teddy’s case those INTs cost the team 3 losses - if off-set in those games with more production then maybe the case could be made that his INTs weren’t a significant negative impact.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by LordTrychon View Post

                              You don't need to tell me what we're talking about... the discussion of his ints started with a quote of my post.

                              My point is/was that it's fair to say Teddy is Mediocre/Average, but it is not fair to say he's a backup QB.

                              To make such a comparison, you must have something to compare against.

                              I'm choosing to compare Teddy to other Starting QBs in the league. I backed up my statement to show all of the statistics where Teddy is ranked in the top 5,10, 15, or 20 QBs in the league this season.

                              There are literally 3 QBs in the league right now with a lower INT%, making him a top-5 QB for that statistic.

                              You chose to discuss how those INTs impacted the games. That's fair... but you are acting as though ONLY Teddy's INTs have a negative impact on the game, which is ridiculous.

                              Honestly, it was probably just a poor choice to try to nitpick the statistic that best supports the idea that Teddy is at least a decent QB.


                              Seriously Teddy gets all of stats padded in the 4th Quarter when Denver is down 30 Points to the Eagles and then they go to the Prevent Defense which allows Teddy to Pad his Stats. Teddy at BEST is a BACK UP QB nothing more than that. Did you watch Teddy play this past Sunday what 111 yards Passing the entire game? How many catches did Jerry get? Sutton? Patrick? I am super stoked to see Denver win Yesterday as I expected a Loss there so that was a Pleasant Surprise however we all know that Defense won that game yesterday no thanks to the offense.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by DENVERSB50CHAMP View Post

                                Seriously Teddy gets all of stats padded in the 4th Quarter when Denver is down 30 Points to the Eagles and then they go to the Prevent Defense which allows Teddy to Pad his Stats. Teddy at BEST is a BACK UP QB nothing more than that. Did you watch Teddy play this past Sunday what 111 yards Passing the entire game? How many catches did Jerry get? Sutton? Patrick? I am super stoked to see Denver win Yesterday as I expected a Loss there so that was a Pleasant Surprise however we all know that Defense won that game yesterday no thanks to the offense.
                                That’s the thing about Bridgewater - the defense has shut down the opponent nearly completely. Take the pick six out and the Broncos offense had 21 points. Herbert threw another pick in the end zone and they missed a FG. We’re looking at a 24-21 loss without those INTs by Surtain and the missed FG. It’s good to have a great defensive game however look at the loss to Philly - if another team’s offense gets going the game is out of reach because Bridgewater’s production is limited.

                                Not to mention he’l seems fragile.





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