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  • Originally posted by CanDB View Post

    Never said he was a top performer. But stats can be used any way you want I suppose. His high level stats suggest he is not doing as badly as some here think. Another person here presented stats recently that showed he was doing better than folks think in terms of length of passes thrown, versus the concept he was more of a cautious dink and dunker.

    As for comparing to last year, are you saying we were that much better? I don't see it. And don't tell me that Lock's league leading 15 interceptions, and low passer rate and completion rates don't matter, because they prevented us from doing better.

    And "arguably" is not a solid argument. Jeudy has been down most of the season. Maybe our Oline has slipped a bit, So many variables. Not saying Bridgewater is wonderful, just saying he is not doing as bad as many want us to think. And of course the flubbed tackle attempt will fuel that fire for weeks, and months to come. But will folks remember who made that critical fumble?

    Sure I defend him a little, not because he was my choice for QB this year. Because he was not. But neither was Lock.
    The argument isn't that the offense did so much better last year, under Lock, it's that they did do better with a QB making as many mistakes as he did. Surely a 7 year vet who's known for being the safe and steady choice should have the offense playing at a higher level than a QB who was second worst in interceptions last year (Wentz had the same number in fewer games), and with a low completion percentage and passer rating.

    The fact that the offense is worse this year show how completion percentage and QB rating actually don't mean much of anything.

    And arguably is being used because they've had Sutton for an entire season this year, Fant hasn't been hobbled by a bad ankle all season, and they have a much much better RB room with Javonte Williams replacing a very overrated Phillip Lindsay. But I used arguably because I knew you'd probably respond with Jeudy missing a chunk of the season (while ignoring the Sutton and Fant issues).

    I find it funny that you're defending Bridgewater, cause I can't see any reason why you would? He's provided those better numbers while the offense is worse. So what is he actually providing Denver? In what way do you think he's a QB that deserves to be defended?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post

      The argument isn't that the offense did so much better last year, under Lock, it's that they did do better with a QB making as many mistakes as he did. Surely a 7 year vet who's known for being the safe and steady choice should have the offense playing at a higher level than a QB who was second worst in interceptions last year (Wentz had the same number in fewer games), and with a low completion percentage and passer rating.

      The fact that the offense is worse this year show how completion percentage and QB rating actually don't mean much of anything.

      And arguably is being used because they've had Sutton for an entire season this year, Fant hasn't been hobbled by a bad ankle all season, and they have a much much better RB room with Javonte Williams replacing a very overrated Phillip Lindsay. But I used arguably because I knew you'd probably respond with Jeudy missing a chunk of the season (while ignoring the Sutton and Fant issues).

      I find it funny that you're defending Bridgewater, cause I can't see any reason why you would? He's provided those better numbers while the offense is worse. So what is he actually providing Denver? In what way do you think he's a QB that deserves to be defended?
      (Bolded) You are very bright....thanks for explaining that tidbit. What was I supposed to do, not even try to counter? I thought everyone knew about Sutton and Fant. I suppose I was expected to present your side and my side. I see.

      And what's so funny about defending our QB, even just a little? The best QB option we have right now. Are you defending Lock? Is he your choice?

      Comment


      • ^^^^^Further to....

        The lack of scoring seems to be a Broncos thing, since we won The SB. In fact, even that year we were not scoring much:

        2015 - 22.2

        2016 - 20.8

        2017 - 18.1

        2018 - 20.6

        2019 - 17.6

        2020 - 20.2

        2021 - 20.0

        I have long complained that we need to score more, and these stats paint a very unpleasant picture. This is not a TB problem. This may not even be a DL problem. It seems like a team problem.

        That's why I was a huge advocate to go after the high level QBs that were possibly available this offseason.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by CanDB View Post
          ^^^^^Further to....

          The lack of scoring seems to be a Broncos thing, since we won The SB. In fact, even that year we were not scoring much:

          2015 - 22.2

          2016 - 20.8

          2017 - 18.1

          2018 - 20.6

          2019 - 17.6

          2020 - 20.2

          2021 - 20.0

          I have long complained that we need to score more, and these stats paint a very unpleasant picture. This is not a TB problem. This may not even be a DL problem. It seems like a team problem.

          That's why I was a huge advocate to go after the high level QBs that were possibly available this offseason.
          Sorry, it’s a TB problem.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Locutus View Post

            Sorry, it’s a TB problem.
            Oh I see...He was our starter since about '15????????

            Thanks for the thorough analysis.

            Comment


            • Bridgewater’s comp%, passer rating and touchdowns are constantly used to prop him up. The O-line is never mentioned as a problem when referencing those stats.

              What about 3rd down conversion? 27th

              What about sacks? 30, tied for 2nd most.

              Wait for it…”Teddy plays behind a bad line”

              Bridgewater gets credit for comp%, passer rating and touchdowns…O-line isn’t an issue.

              Bridgewater has low 3rd down conversion and near league leading sacks…O-line will be cited as the problem.

              If Teddy were getting it done the Broncos wouldn’t be bottom 10 in the league.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by CanDB View Post

                Oh I see...He was our starter since about '15????????

                Thanks for the thorough analysis.
                No but from what you posted we did better under Lock. Just saying

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Locutus View Post

                  No but from what you posted we did better under Lock. Just saying
                  Better....those numbers are not statistically different, and contain many variables. Just sayin that's a very weak argument.

                  Lock was benched for reasons.

                  Comment


                  • I realize now that I am taking the bait. By defending TB, a nice guy who is not a bad QB, who is "OUR QB", I am going to give certain folks more fuel for their fire. I should sit back and just watch the burning around me. But like I say, I like TB, I respect his career given the injury he tried to overcome, and overall his numbers are not terrible. I am cool if they want to start Lock. I wish they would, because he will either surprise some of us, or silence some others.

                    We don't have much in the way of options, so lets hope for the best this year and then get really serious.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by CanDB View Post

                      Better....those numbers are not statistically different, and contain many variables. Just sayin that's a very weak argument.

                      Lock was benched for reasons.
                      Apparently not good ones

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
                        Bridgewater’s comp%, passer rating and touchdowns are constantly used to prop him up. The O-line is never mentioned as a problem when referencing those stats.

                        What about 3rd down conversion? 27th

                        What about sacks? 30, tied for 2nd most.

                        Wait for it…”Teddy plays behind a bad line”

                        Bridgewater gets credit for comp%, passer rating and touchdowns…O-line isn’t an issue.

                        Bridgewater has low 3rd down conversion and near league leading sacks…O-line will be cited as the problem.

                        If Teddy were getting it done the Broncos wouldn’t be bottom 10 in the league.
                        Wait for it.....next win..."easy team."

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
                          Bridgewater’s comp%, passer rating and touchdowns are constantly used to prop him up. The O-line is never mentioned as a problem when referencing those stats.

                          What about 3rd down conversion? 27th

                          What about sacks? 30, tied for 2nd most.


                          Wait for it…”Teddy plays behind a bad line”

                          Bridgewater gets credit for comp%, passer rating and touchdowns…O-line isn’t an issue.

                          Bridgewater has low 3rd down conversion and near league leading sacks…O-line will be cited as the problem.

                          If Teddy were getting it done the Broncos wouldn’t be bottom 10 in the league.
                          Whoops

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by MH Stampede View Post

                            Unfortunately, I think there is a decent chance he is still our QB next year. I am no draft guru by any means, but all reports I have seen are that this year's qb crop isn't very good. And given the high chance that we will be drafting in the teens again any college qb that emerges as a top candidate is probably going to be long gone by then.

                            That leaves us with 3 options. 1) Reaching in the draft and hoping it pans out (does not seem to be Paton's mo at all), 2) making a splash in free agency....where a fair number of other teams are going to be trying to do the same thing. Chances of landing that top free agent aren't very good either. The last possibility sure seems like our own real option this upcoming offseason, and that is making the big trade. Of the 3, this is likely the most doable, particularly given the draft pick resources we will have.

                            The harsh reality is.......just like this year...... we may simply have no better options.
                            Don’t disagree with your take. If that’s the case, then we’ll all be singing the same tune for another year. I personally hope we see something new. We’ll see how it turns out, but my interest level will be extremely low if we have TB at the helm next year.
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post

                              And here is why stats don't tell you the full story on Bridgewater.

                              He's 60/89 on third down passing, 67.4% which is second in the league. That sounds pretty good, a QB who has a high completion percentage on third down, where do I sign up?

                              Except only 29 of those have resulted in a first down. That's second worst int he league, barely ahead of Sam Darnold.

                              As for all of the stats you quoted, and who they're better than, does Bridgewater's offense score more points than those QBs? And are those stats leading to the Broncos offense being better? a 67.4% completion percentage on third down is useless when you're only converting 32.6% of them into first downs.

                              Denver averages 20 points per game this season, last season they averaged 20.2 points per game. Denver scores touchdowns on 50% of their red zone trips this year, last year they scored TDs in 53.3% of their RZ trips. Denver's overall third down conversion rate this year is 34.65%, last year it was 38.68%

                              Sure Bridgewater's individual stats make it look like he's playing well, but the offense is worse this year than last year, with arguably more weapons.
                              You brought up some great points. I wish I never had to watch Bridgewater take another snap here. He is a coward and a quitter. Not only that, he will never WIN football games for this team. He refuses to take chances which is why you see so many 1 yard passes on 3rd & 12. That's why he only has 5 picks. He won't take chances and because of that, he won't win football games for you. He will play decent football and be mediocre across the board and count on the running game and defense to win the game for him. Rodgers, Wilson, Mahomes, Carr, Brady....they take chances to try to make big plays. Say what you want about Drew Lock but he WILL take chances and he WILL try to make plays and win football games. As for me, I'd rather watch Drew throw a bad pick here and there while trying to make plays than to watch Bridgewater throw 3 yard passes all day. Here is how I sum it up:

                              Bridgewater: weak arm, not mobile, too conservative and won't take chances
                              Lock: strong arm, mobile, will take chances and make some mistakes trying to make plays

                              I'll take Lock any day of the week.

                              One more thing, I keep hearing about how Paton will get a QB in the off season or draft one. Is everyone forgetting that Paton is the guy who brought Bridgewater here and THAT is the reason he is starting?? I have no faith in Paton bringing a good QB to Denver or drafting one if his idea of a good QB and leader is Teddy Bridgewater, who is now on his FIFTH team.
                              Proud resident of Broncos Country!!!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by snowman33 View Post

                                You brought up some great points. I wish I never had to watch Bridgewater take another snap here. He is a coward and a quitter. Not only that, he will never WIN football games for this team. He refuses to take chances which is why you see so many 1 yard passes on 3rd & 12. That's why he only has 5 picks. He won't take chances and because of that, he won't win football games for you. He will play decent football and be mediocre across the board and count on the running game and defense to win the game for him. Rodgers, Wilson, Mahomes, Carr, Brady....they take chances to try to make big plays. Say what you want about Drew Lock but he WILL take chances and he WILL try to make plays and win football games. As for me, I'd rather watch Drew throw a bad pick here and there while trying to make plays than to watch Bridgewater throw 3 yard passes all day. Here is how I sum it up:

                                Bridgewater: weak arm, not mobile, too conservative and won't take chances
                                Lock: strong arm, mobile, will take chances and make some mistakes trying to make plays

                                I'll take Lock any day of the week.

                                One more thing, I keep hearing about how Paton will get a QB in the off season or draft one. Is everyone forgetting that Paton is the guy who brought Bridgewater here and THAT is the reason he is starting?? I have no faith in Paton bringing a good QB to Denver or drafting one if his idea of a good QB and leader is Teddy Bridgewater, who is now on his FIFTH team.
                                That this play brought you out of retirement says alot. Agreed on all.
                                sigpic

                                Hooray, beer!

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