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Not The Thread For Everyone....BUT The Season Is Not Over

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  • #16
    Literally, this season has been all over the place. every "bad" team has beaten the "best" teams. its happening 2-3 times a week. This is the most "Any given Sunday" I've ever seen.

    We could beat all 3 division teams that look better than us, while still losing to the lions by 45 points.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by jmz313 View Post
      Literally, this season has been all over the place. every "bad" team has beaten the "best" teams. its happening 2-3 times a week. This is the most "Any given Sunday" I've ever seen.

      We could beat all 3 division teams that look better than us, while still losing to the lions by 45 points.
      I am laughing, but I see your point. Denver can win more games this season. Even HOF QB's have lousy games sometimes. They won't win giving up 200yds rushing and not showing a sense of urgency getting play makers the ball, and fumbling in big moments. You clean that up we can hang with everyone else on our schedule, especially if we can force some turnovers each week.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by WYBRONCO View Post

        I am laughing, but I see your point. Denver can win more games this season. Even HOF QB's have lousy games sometimes. They won't win giving up 200yds rushing and not showing a sense of urgency getting play makers the ball, and fumbling in big moments. You clean that up we can hang with everyone else on our schedule, especially if we can force some turnovers each week.
        Pookie needs at least 20 carries per game at the end of our schedule.
        sigpic

        Hooray, beer!

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        • #19
          So it's the owner, and/or Elway/Paton probably, the coaches, some of the players, including both QBs....

          How's the concession folks doing?

          Seeing as this thread again has a twist of positivity in it, and The Broncos have magically won 5 games (though anyone could have won most of them apparently), are there any players/coaches/Execs/other you would like to commend. You see, each week we hear about the same group of bad guys, but seldom do I see threads/posts about positive forces.

          I can name a bunch. Why not spend more time talking about those "individuals", rather than the usual, we have talent comments?

          (To repeat many, many times....I know we need a new QB, and I expect some coaching changes by this offseason)

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by CanDB View Post
            So it's the owner, and/or Elway/Paton probably, the coaches, some of the players, including both QBs....

            How's the concession folks doing?

            Seeing as this thread again has a twist of positivity in it, and The Broncos have magically won 5 games (though anyone could have won most of them apparently), are there any players/coaches/Execs/other you would like to commend. You see, each week we hear about the same group of bad guys, but seldom do I see threads/posts about positive forces.

            I can name a bunch. Why not spend more time talking about those "individuals", rather than the usual, we have talent comments?

            (To repeat many, many times....I know we need a new QB, and I expect some coaching changes by this offseason)
            I know it will draw some differing opinions, but I’m pretty happy with Paton’s first year.

            As fans, we tend to only care about making it to the playoffs THIS YEAR, winning the SB THIS YEAR. Paton is an executive for the Broncos organization, not a fan only interested in instant gratification.

            IMO, Paton came into a pretty volatile situation. He had to make a lot of decisions quickly. I think he purposely employed a long term strategy while giving the coaching staff and roster a litmus test.

            Yes, he passed on a QB. I was certainly disappointed at the time, and I’d honestly would have rather watched a new QB than Bridgewater. Here’s the kicker. He has an old school coaching staff who wanted a vet QB to compete with Lock. He gave them that QB and he beat out Lock. I’m not the likes with the results of the QB situation, but I can understand the strategy. There’s no way Fangio/Shurmur would be able to properly handle a rookie QB and probably wouldn’t start him anyway. It’s a lame duck coaching staff who wanted what they got. Sort of looks like he gave them enough rope to hang themselves with. Also, it makes sense to let the next coaching staff have a say in their QB. In a way it’s sort of a win/win. If they make the playoffs with this coaching staff/QB combo, then great - it worked (less likely IMO). If they get what they wanted and stink up the joint, then you’re completely justified in a full house cleaning. To be clear, I’m not happy with what was done at QB, I’m just willing to acknowledge the strategy he seems to be employing.

            I liked his draft on the whole. Even though he passed on QB, I’m liking Surtain. I love JW. I liked the deadline trades.

            I just think he’s taking a long view and I like that. He set things up the best he could in a short time and I think he did well fit the most part.

            We’ll see what happens in the offseason. Although I’m happy with his performance this year, my opinion of him hinges heavily on what he does this coming offseason.
            sigpic

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            • #21
              Originally posted by RocketArm006 View Post

              I know it will draw some differing opinions, but I’m pretty happy with Paton’s first year.

              As fans, we tend to only care about making it to the playoffs THIS YEAR, winning the SB THIS YEAR. Paton is an executive for the Broncos organization, not a fan only interested in instant gratification.

              IMO, Paton came into a pretty volatile situation. He had to make a lot of decisions quickly. I think he purposely employed a long term strategy while giving the coaching staff and roster a litmus test.

              Yes, he passed on a QB. I was certainly disappointed at the time, and I’d honestly would have rather watched a new QB than Bridgewater. Here’s the kicker. He has an old school coaching staff who wanted a vet QB to compete with Lock. He gave them that QB and he beat out Lock. I’m not the likes with the results of the QB situation, but I can understand the strategy. There’s no way Fangio/Shurmur would be able to properly handle a rookie QB and probably wouldn’t start him anyway. It’s a lame duck coaching staff who wanted what they got. Sort of looks like he gave them enough rope to hang themselves with. Also, it makes sense to let the next coaching staff have a say in their QB. In a way it’s sort of a win/win. If they make the playoffs with this coaching staff/QB combo, then great - it worked (less likely IMO). If they get what they wanted and stink up the joint, then you’re completely justified in a full house cleaning. To be clear, I’m not happy with what was done at QB, I’m just willing to acknowledge the strategy he seems to be employing.

              I liked his draft on the whole. Even though he passed on QB, I’m liking Surtain. I love JW. I liked the deadline trades.

              I just think he’s taking a long view and I like that. He set things up the best he could in a short time and I think he did well fit the most part.

              We’ll see what happens in the offseason. Although I’m happy with his performance this year, my opinion of him hinges heavily on what he does this coming offseason.
              Now we're talking with some long term objectivity, so thanks for that. I tend to get bored with the angry mob approach, though I certainly do not classify you as part of that group. Many of us are on board with what is working and what is not. The thing that disinterests me is to join the mob, and throw more gas onto the fire. OK, Teddy Bridgewater is not the future. We get it. But at times it's like having a toothache and are going to get it fixed, but in the meantime, the dental hygenist keeps poking it and poking it. Why bother?

              And just to repeat, last I checked TB still has an above average pass rate, % completion, and has few picks. Those stats do not matter to the hygienist.

              Beyond TB....

              1) In spite of all the mob mentality, The Broncos could make the playoffs. Not a stretch. Not like saying Detroit could, or Houston or The Jets/Jags. The Broncos are 1 game behind in the division and only 1 game behind the #1 Wild Card. Giving up now is kinda sad.
              2) I do not have enough evidence, but I too believe Paton will do a good job....and we will see that this offseason. A new QB. New coaches/coordinators (not sure how many). And yes, Surtain looks like a pro bowler already, and Williams is a quality back. Really solid picks! That's just 2 of the group, and long term there will be more stories to be proud about. But it takes time to carve out the organization you want. Not too long, but the first year is not enough. You have to see the dust settle, learn the culture and what part you can change, and so forth. Year two is when a more detailed approach can be very effective.
              3) I do not profess to know the depth of the ownership situation, but I am also a "starts from the top" proponent.
              4) Overall, if we land a quality QB, make key organizational changes, and use FA and The Draft appropriately, I think this team has a bright future. I am not delving into ownership, but that could be significant.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by CanDB View Post

                Now we're talking with some long term objectivity, so thanks for that. I tend to get bored with the angry mob approach, though I certainly do not classify you as part of that group. Many of us are on board with what is working and what is not. The thing that disinterests me is to join the mob, and throw more gas onto the fire. OK, Teddy Bridgewater is not the future. We get it. But at times it's like having a toothache and are going to get it fixed, but in the meantime, the dental hygenist keeps poking it and poking it. Why bother?

                And just to repeat, last I checked TB still has an above average pass rate, % completion, and has few picks. Those stats do not matter to the hygienist.

                Beyond TB....

                1) In spite of all the mob mentality, The Broncos could make the playoffs. Not a stretch. Not like saying Detroit could, or Houston or The Jets/Jags. The Broncos are 1 game behind in the division and only 1 game behind the #1 Wild Card. Giving up now is kinda sad.
                2) I do not have enough evidence, but I too believe Paton will do a good job....and we will see that this offseason. A new QB. New coaches/coordinators (not sure how many). And yes, Surtain looks like a pro bowler already, and Williams is a quality back. Really solid picks! That's just 2 of the group, and long term there will be more stories to be proud about. But it takes time to carve out the organization you want. Not too long, but the first year is not enough. You have to see the dust settle, learn the culture and what part you can change, and so forth. Year two is when a more detailed approach can be very effective.
                3) I do not profess to know the depth of the ownership situation, but I am also a "starts from the top" proponent.
                4) Overall, if we land a quality QB, make key organizational changes, and use FA and The Draft appropriately, I think this team has a bright future. I am not delving into ownership, but that could be significant.
                I’m with you on most of that. I’m looking at this team with a 20,000 foot view. The overall roster is actually decent. The coaching staff and QB, however, will likely be completely different next year. I’m hoping/betting they will go with a modern offensive HC and a QB that he has a say with. I also think the probability is low we will land Rodgers/Wilson/Watson.

                Probably a bit of wishful thinking on my part, but I’m expecting a new coaching staff and fresh, young QB for 2022. Unless all the stars align, there will be trials and tribulations associated with that much change.

                I’m perfectly willing to endure the growing pains if it means a shift into the modern era. I’m definitely not interested in enduring another old school coach and retread vet QB.

                like I said, though, the rest of the roster looks decent. We probably won’t be too bad for too long if we can get some half way decent offensive production.

                That’s sort of the direction I think Paton is taking. I hope I’m right. A lot is riding on this offseason. I’m highly interested to see how it pans out.
                sigpic

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by RocketArm006 View Post

                  I’m with you on most of that. I’m looking at this team with a 20,000 foot view. The overall roster is actually decent. The coaching staff and QB, however, will likely be completely different next year. I’m hoping/betting they will go with a modern offensive HC and a QB that he has a say with. I also think the probability is low we will land Rodgers/Wilson/Watson.

                  Probably a bit of wishful thinking on my part, but I’m expecting a new coaching staff and fresh, young QB for 2022. Unless all the stars align, there will be trials and tribulations associated with that much change.

                  I’m perfectly willing to endure the growing pains if it means a shift into the modern era. I’m definitely not interested in enduring another old school coach and retread vet QB.

                  like I said, though, the rest of the roster looks decent. We probably won’t be too bad for too long if we can get some half way decent offensive production.

                  That’s sort of the direction I think Paton is taking. I hope I’m right. A lot is riding on this offseason. I’m highly interested to see how it pans out.
                  Good discussion. It's enjoyable having good, constructive talk here, other than the "the sky is falling" stuff that lingers with certain members. We've talked before, and I am sure it's been about Paton and direction. I can make it thru this season, believing that the offseason will be exciting. And though our playoffs hopes are on low/simmer, we are at least technically very much in the race. I try not to give up on things in life, because stranger things have happened. TB might improve enough, or possibly even Lock takes over and wins a few. Giving up this early, with this record, is not the approach I take. I got over most of my disappointment before the season started. I was not keen on TB or Lock, and I have some concerns about coaching/management. But the season started and I tried to see a positive future, more likely in 2022.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by CanDB View Post

                    Good discussion. It's enjoyable having good, constructive talk here, other than the "the sky is falling" stuff that lingers with certain members. We've talked before, and I am sure it's been about Paton and direction. I can make it thru this season, believing that the offseason will be exciting. And though our playoffs hopes are on low/simmer, we are at least technically very much in the race. I try not to give up on things in life, because stranger things have happened. TB might improve enough, or possibly even Lock takes over and wins a few. Giving up this early, with this record, is not the approach I take. I got over most of my disappointment before the season started. I was not keen on TB or Lock, and I have some concerns about coaching/management. But the season started and I tried to see a positive future, more likely in 2022.
                    That’s cool. I understand that you are holding on to hope for this year. There’s definitely a difference between what I hope happens vs what I think will happen, though. That’s why I’m more of a watch how it plays out kind of guy. I certainly have my views on what I think will happen in spite of my heartfelt wishes for glory.

                    My positive view lies more in what’s happening next because the probability is very high that this is a lame duck year for both QB and coaching staff.

                    It is true that they are technically still in playoff contention. I would very much like to see a deep playoff run and a miraculous improvement from the coaching staff. I just don’t think that will happen.

                    We’ll see how it plays out, of course. I’m not opposed to a magical storybook ending to this season where the coaching staff suddenly gets it and TB consistently plays out of his mind and they go on a killer, exciting playoff run. Miracles happen in sports - it part of the fun.

                    Alas, my heart wants one thing and my brain tells me another. Looking at all of the evidence, the probability is very high that things will turn out similarly to what they have in the passed several seasons and we will see a new staff and QB next year.

                    Coming full circle back to my main point of my OP…

                    I like what I saw from Paton this year. I’m excited and interested to see what happens next. I’m completely burned out of old school coaches and mediocre vet QBs. I’m ready for the next chapter. I think it will be much more enjoyable than what we’ve seen for the last 5 years.
                    sigpic

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by RocketArm006 View Post

                      That’s cool. I understand that you are holding on to hope for this year. There’s definitely a difference between what I hope happens vs what I think will happen, though. That’s why I’m more of a watch how it plays out kind of guy. I certainly have my views on what I think will happen in spite of my heartfelt wishes for glory.

                      My positive view lies more in what’s happening next because the probability is very high that this is a lame duck year for both QB and coaching staff.

                      It is true that they are technically still in playoff contention. I would very much like to see a deep playoff run and a miraculous improvement from the coaching staff. I just don’t think that will happen.

                      We’ll see how it plays out, of course. I’m not opposed to a magical storybook ending to this season where the coaching staff suddenly gets it and TB consistently plays out of his mind and they go on a killer, exciting playoff run. Miracles happen in sports - it part of the fun.

                      Alas, my heart wants one thing and my brain tells me another. Looking at all of the evidence, the probability is very high that things will turn out similarly to what they have in the passed several seasons and we will see a new staff and QB next year.

                      Coming full circle back to my main point of my OP…

                      I like what I saw from Paton this year. I’m excited and interested to see what happens next. I’m completely burned out of old school coaches and mediocre vet QBs. I’m ready for the next chapter. I think it will be much more enjoyable than what we’ve seen for the last 5 years.
                      As I like to say....

                      A change is comin. Hang tough til it does. Enjoy "anything" good that happens in the meantime.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by CanDB View Post

                        As I like to say....

                        A change is comin. Hang tough til it does. Enjoy "anything" good that happens in the meantime.
                        Well said. Agreed.
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                        • #27
                          There are only 4 teams with LOWER points against than the Broncos. Bills, Pats, Saints, GB.

                          We have a winning record on the road and a losing record at home, which we won't have home games if we make the playoffs plus any given sunday gives me reason to believe we will be just good enough to miss the playoffs and just bad enough the draft pick wont be worth it.
                          Sept. 10, 2006, [email protected] 10-18, Sept. 28, 2008, [email protected] 19-33, Nov. 16, 2014, [email protected] 7-22 <--Broncos games I've attended

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by CanDB View Post

                            Now we're talking with some long term objectivity, so thanks for that. I tend to get bored with the angry mob approach, though I certainly do not classify you as part of that group. Many of us are on board with what is working and what is not. The thing that disinterests me is to join the mob, and throw more gas onto the fire. OK, Teddy Bridgewater is not the future. We get it. But at times it's like having a toothache and are going to get it fixed, but in the meantime, the dental hygenist keeps poking it and poking it. Why bother?

                            And just to repeat, last I checked TB still has an above average pass rate, % completion, and has few picks. Those stats do not matter to the hygienist.

                            Beyond TB....

                            1) In spite of all the mob mentality, The Broncos could make the playoffs. Not a stretch. Not like saying Detroit could, or Houston or The Jets/Jags. The Broncos are 1 game behind in the division and only 1 game behind the #1 Wild Card. Giving up now is kinda sad.
                            2) I do not have enough evidence, but I too believe Paton will do a good job....and we will see that this offseason. A new QB. New coaches/coordinators (not sure how many). And yes, Surtain looks like a pro bowler already, and Williams is a quality back. Really solid picks! That's just 2 of the group, and long term there will be more stories to be proud about. But it takes time to carve out the organization you want. Not too long, but the first year is not enough. You have to see the dust settle, learn the culture and what part you can change, and so forth. Year two is when a more detailed approach can be very effective.
                            3) I do not profess to know the depth of the ownership situation, but I am also a "starts from the top" proponent.
                            4) Overall, if we land a quality QB, make key organizational changes, and use FA and The Draft appropriately, I think this team has a bright future. I am not delving into ownership, but that could be significant.
                            I'm totally with you that this season is far from over. Nobody in our division looks unbeatable and we've seen what our team can do. Nobody competing for a wild card is head and shoulders better than us. This team is close. We've got alot of talent on both sides of the ball. It's miraculous that we've played as well as we have defensively with all the injuries we've dealt with. The offensive line is good enough, RBs have been really impressive, and we have a good group of receivers/TEs. We need more consistency, we need to be better on 3rd downs and extending and closing out drives, and we need a QB. This team can make the playoffs and compete in the playoffs but certainly not if they play like they did on Sunday.

                            As for Paton, there is some good and alot of bad:

                            Good: Draft appears to have been a good one & nice LB acquisitions especially Young
                            Bad: TERRIBLE job on free agent signings.....Darby (very disappointing), Fuller (very disappointing), Boone (total bust and waste of $....now we see why he was 3rd string in Minnesota)
                            Trading for Bridgewater was a horrible move. He is a mediocre journeyman QB and there is a reason he's now playing on his 5th team. Letting Lindsey go and bringing in Boone....I could go on all day about that one. Trading Von....I didn't like the move.

                            Overall, I give Paton a D so far. We'll see how he does after this season but I don't have any faith in him. His love and adoration for Bridgewater scares the hell out of me and makes me legitimately concerned that he thinks that Bridgewater can be a franchise QB.
                            Proud resident of Broncos Country!!!

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by CanDB View Post
                              So it's the owner, and/or Elway/Paton probably, the coaches, some of the players, including both QBs....

                              How's the concession folks doing?

                              Seeing as this thread again has a twist of positivity in it, and The Broncos have magically won 5 games (though anyone could have won most of them apparently), are there any players/coaches/Execs/other you would like to commend. You see, each week we hear about the same group of bad guys, but seldom do I see threads/posts about positive forces.

                              I can name a bunch. Why not spend more time talking about those "individuals", rather than the usual, we have talent comments?

                              (To repeat many, many times....I know we need a new QB, and I expect some coaching changes by this offseason)
                              Williams has what it takes to be a superstar back, he really is fun to watch. Surtain, is well on his way too. Paton's first draft class, seems a winner to me, and its only been a little over half a season. He does this well consistently, and we will be in good shape talent-wise going forward.
                              sigpic

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by CanDB View Post

                                Good discussion. It's enjoyable having good, constructive talk here, other than the "the sky is falling" stuff that lingers with certain members. We've talked before, and I am sure it's been about Paton and direction. I can make it thru this season, believing that the offseason will be exciting. And though our playoffs hopes are on low/simmer, we are at least technically very much in the race. I try not to give up on things in life, because stranger things have happened. TB might improve enough, or possibly even Lock takes over and wins a few. Giving up this early, with this record, is not the approach I take. I got over most of my disappointment before the season started. I was not keen on TB or Lock, and I have some concerns about coaching/management. But the season started and I tried to see a positive future, more likely in 2022.
                                I think more like 2023 before we see real improvement, at least at the qb position.

                                I also think there is an above average chance we go with Teddy B again, or some other journeyman. Mostly because I just dont think any better options will be available, either in the draft or elsewhere. By all accounts, this is a weak year for qb's in the draft. Seems to me our most likely option, which isnt all that likely really, is going for the big trade. We do have a ton of draft capital to bargain with. Free agency? Every year the hope is to make that big signing (like the Manning acquisition for example), But the chances of that happening are even lower than a trade, we wouldnt be the only team out there trying to land the Big Name.
                                Last edited by MH Stampede; 11-16-2021, 10:33 PM.
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