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  • #61
    Originally posted by sra84 View Post

    Well then we'll just disagree....I think Fields will be a franchise quarterback and you don't....simple as that.

    I hope Paton gets us a franchise quarterback. But he has to earn my trust when it comes to quarterback evaluation....because Bridgewater was a waste of time.
    Fields will be a good QB. But first they need a better o line and WRs. He was good at Ohio State but Ohio State is just like Bama considering pretty much all the players are 5 star recruits that he was playing with.

    My pre draft rankings had Lawrence, Fields and Jones was a toss up, Lance, Wilson. I wasn't sold on Lance or Wilson because of the competition level they faced.

    There will be 3 or 4 QBs taken in the 1st round next year. Coral, Pickett, Howell, Ridder could all be taken in the 1st round and my preference is Pickett.

    Trubisky only had 1season with a losing record with the bears and was 6-3 last year as the starter. I actually hoped we would have went and got him in the off season because what he did with that terrible bears offense was actually impressive.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by MH Stampede View Post

      Getting Teddy was simply a case of making the best of a bad situation.

      Honestly, I think it likely the same will hold true this coming offseason.

      Another year though, thats another thing. I am not a college fan or a draft guru by any means, but all the talk I see is that the '23 crop of college qb's will be a good one.
      Broncos 2020 offense points per game- 20.2

      Broncos 2021 offense points per game thus far- 20.7

      No improvement with Bridgewater.

      2020 Broncos defense points per game allowed- 27.9

      2021 Broncos defense points per game allowed thus far - 17.8

      Our offense is just as inept at scoring as it was with Lock. The Broncos are winning because of the defense surrendering 10 points less per game.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Allen C View Post

        Fields will be a good QB. But first they need a better o line and WRs. He was good at Ohio State but Ohio State is just like Bama considering pretty much all the players are 5 star recruits that he was playing with.

        My pre draft rankings had Lawrence, Fields and Jones was a toss up, Lance, Wilson. I wasn't sold on Lance or Wilson because of the competition level they faced.

        There will be 3 or 4 QBs taken in the 1st round next year. Coral, Pickett, Howell, Ridder could all be taken in the 1st round and my preference is Pickett.

        Trubisky only had 1season with a losing record with the bears and was 6-3 last year as the starter. I actually hoped we would have went and got him in the off season because what he did with that terrible bears offense was actually impressive.
        Aside from Jones, Alabama had other offensive players in Waddle, Smith, Leatherwood and Harris all drafted in the first round and Dickerson went 37th overall and that was because he tore his ACL in the SEC championship game, otherwise he probably would have been a first round pick.

        Yes, Ohio State has good players but Fields was the only first round pick from the eligible Ohio State players in the draft. The next Ohio State offensive player was taken with the 62nd pick.

        Jones clearly had superior talent, as evidenced by the 52-24 win over Fields and Ohio State in the national championship game.



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        • #64
          Originally posted by sra84 View Post

          Aside from Jones, Alabama had other offensive players in Waddle, Smith, Leatherwood and Harris all drafted in the first round and Dickerson went 37th overall and that was because he tore his ACL in the SEC championship game, otherwise he probably would have been a first round pick.

          Yes, Ohio State has good players but Fields was the only first round pick from the eligible Ohio State players in the draft. The next Ohio State offensive player was taken with the 62nd pick.

          Jones clearly had superior talent, as evidenced by the 52-24 win over Fields and Ohio State in the national championship game.


          He also had Olave and Wilson who should be 1st round picks in the 2022 draft along with nicholas petit-frere. I'm not dogging Fields because I think he can be good in the NFL but Ohio State isn't hurting for 5 star players, Alabama is coached better to be ready for the NFL.

          I do wish that Fields would have stayed at UGA though after Fromm left he could have stayed there.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by sra84 View Post

            Broncos 2020 offense points per game- 20.2

            Broncos 2021 offense points per game thus far- 20.7

            No improvement with Bridgewater.

            2020 Broncos defense points per game allowed- 27.9

            2021 Broncos defense points per game allowed thus far - 17.8

            Our offense is just as inept at scoring as it was with Lock. The Broncos are winning because of the defense surrendering 10 points less per game.
            An interesting concept I herd brought up was how does our turnovers ... or lack of this year...affect our defensive scoring?

            This year we are 5th best in not turning the ball over. Last year we were the worst in the NFL including worst in Ints.
            Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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            • #66
              Originally posted by sra84 View Post

              Broncos 2020 offense points per game- 20.2

              Broncos 2021 offense points per game thus far- 20.7

              No improvement with Bridgewater.

              2020 Broncos defense points per game allowed- 27.9

              2021 Broncos defense points per game allowed thus far - 17.8

              Our offense is just as inept at scoring as it was with Lock. The Broncos are winning because of the defense surrendering 10 points less per game.
              Originally posted by Hadez View Post

              An interesting concept I herd brought up was how does our turnovers ... or lack of this year...affect our defensive scoring?

              This year we are 5th best in not turning the ball over. Last year we were the worst in the NFL including worst in Ints.
              The turnovers Lock was generating in 2020 gave additional scoring opportunities to the other side's offense, and often with a short field. Certainly a much shorter field than if the ball was punted to them. Which would make the defense look worse than it in fact was from a simplistic points scored perspective.

              The DVOA stats show that our offense is much improved from last season, but the defense has deteriorated (which puts our offense this year in worse field position). The shorter fields from turnovers may explain why the points scored/surrendered statistics cited above (which I assume are accurately cited) superficially make it appear that the defense improved but the offense did not, as points scored taken in isolation does not adjust for the situation on the field on a per-play basis the way DVOA does, as well as adjusting for the strength of opponents.

              2020 total DVOA:
              • 30th (offense)
              • 13th (defense)


              2021 total DVOA:
              • 15th (offense)
              • 25th (defense)

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Hadez View Post

                An interesting concept I herd brought up was how does our turnovers ... or lack of this year...affect our defensive scoring?

                This year we are 5th best in not turning the ball over. Last year we were the worst in the NFL including worst in Ints.
                Fair enough, but despite less turnovers, we still struggle to score on offense.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Allen C View Post

                  He also had Olave and Wilson who should be 1st round picks in the 2022 draft along with nicholas petit-frere. I'm not dogging Fields because I think he can be good in the NFL but Ohio State isn't hurting for 5 star players, Alabama is coached better to be ready for the NFL.

                  I do wish that Fields would have stayed at UGA though after Fromm left he could have stayed there.
                  I'm not saying Ohio State doesn't have great recruits because they absolutely do. I was just saying that Jones had way more around him at Alabama. It's ridiculous the amount of talent Alabama has been able to recruit over the Saban era.

                  And you are correct about the coaching. Alabama practically runs a NFL-like program.
                  Last edited by sra84; 12-02-2021, 04:19 AM.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by sra84 View Post

                    Broncos 2020 offense points per game- 20.2

                    Broncos 2021 offense points per game thus far- 20.7

                    No improvement with Bridgewater.

                    2020 Broncos defense points per game allowed- 27.9

                    2021 Broncos defense points per game allowed thus far - 17.8

                    Our offense is just as inept at scoring as it was with Lock. The Broncos are winning because of the defense surrendering 10 points less per game.
                    I take that as an overall good thing. It's like a budget, in the short term you can try to add revenue or reduce costs. Same applies here, you can score more or give up less (or both of course). We cut down points significantly. Even better, we're doing it minus Von now, and the 2nd and 3rd round picks. Sure, the scoring aspect is still an issue, but we can't really conclude anything in terms of who would have done better - Lock or Bridgewater or anyone else this year, because there are too many variables. The 0.5 point increase is clearly not an improvement, but the defensive gains are a significant improvement.

                    Again, we've discussed TB so much. None of us are saving an All-Pro spot for him. But given who we started the season with, I can not imagine thinking that Lock was the better choice. He has not had a lot of time I'll admit, but he does not look like the Lock I liked in '19. But if this is a debate about TB again, well, we've been there.

                    My feeling is this, he was not my starter of choice (but none of our QBs was), he has struggled at times, and he can not be our long term guy. But we are right here, right now, in a playoff race, and and TB just came off a pretty good game. And he muscled his way through it. Dew Lock is unlikely to play a whole lot, but even if he does, I can safely say that most of us are not expecting too much.

                    The best possible way to look at this, for me anyway, is that in spite of all the noise, we are 6 and 5 and in a huge game Sunday. If you'd told me that likelihood a while back I would have been pumped. So I am. And for us, the best hopes are that our D continues to impress, and every player on our team plays their best, or near to it. And yes, that our coaches do their jobs. Because we're in it, and we have a chance. And it won't matter what any of us say, including me for sure, in terms of how this thing goes this season. It only matters what each player/coach/support team individual does going forward. The train is rolling, and the momentum is pretty good. It's a unit, not a bunch of individuals, till this trip ends.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by CanDB View Post

                      I take that as an overall good thing. It's like a budget, in the short term you can try to add revenue or reduce costs. Same applies here, you can score more or give up less (or both of course). We cut down points significantly. Even better, we're doing it minus Von now, and the 2nd and 3rd round picks. Sure, the scoring aspect is still an issue, but we can't really conclude anything in terms of who would have done better - Lock or Bridgewater or anyone else this year, because there are too many variables. The 0.5 point increase is clearly not an improvement, but the defensive gains are a significant improvement.

                      Again, we've discussed TB so much. None of us are saving an All-Pro spot for him. But given who we started the season with, I can not imagine thinking that Lock was the better choice. He has not had a lot of time I'll admit, but he does not look like the Lock I liked in '19. But if this is a debate about TB again, well, we've been there.

                      My feeling is this, he was not my starter of choice (but none of our QBs was), he has struggled at times, and he can not be our long term guy. But we are right here, right now, in a playoff race, and and TB just came off a pretty good game. And he muscled his way through it. Dew Lock is unlikely to play a whole lot, but even if he does, I can safely say that most of us are not expecting too much.

                      The best possible way to look at this, for me anyway, is that in spite of all the noise, we are 6 and 5 and in a huge game Sunday. If you'd told me that likelihood a while back I would have been pumped. So I am. And for us, the best hopes are that our D continues to impress, and every player on our team plays their best, or near to it. And yes, that our coaches do their jobs. Because we're in it, and we have a chance. And it won't matter what any of us say, including me for sure, in terms of how this thing goes this season. It only matters what each player/coach/support team individual does going forward. The train is rolling, and the momentum is pretty good. It's a unit, not a bunch of individuals, till this trip ends.
                      The turnovers are the difference. We saw Sunday how quickly a game can turn with the int right before the half a 10 to 14 pt swing and gave a Charger team that had been dominated life.

                      The Eagles game the Gordon fumble was a huge swing from us adding a fg or td making it 20-16 or 20-20 to 27-13 and game over.

                      Bridgewater was not my choice, I would have given Drew the first four games and then decided on letting him continue or go to Teddy but obviously Fangio chose Teddy because he believes in his defense and his job is on the line. At the end of the day I'm a Bronco fan and seeing them beat Dallas and the Chargers this year is the most excited I've been since SB50.

                      Sunday if the Broncos don't come out playing with their hair on fire then Fangio has to go! We need to see this team run through a wall for their coach, if he cant get them up for this then he isn't the right guy in charge. I know many have had him fired already but reality is he is still the coach and despite losing some games we should have won ( philly, & Pittsburgh) he also got wins over teams we weren't suppose to beat ( Dallas & LA).
                      sigpic

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
                        The turnovers are the difference. We saw Sunday how quickly a game can turn with the int right before the half a 10 to 14 pt swing and gave a Charger team that had been dominated life.

                        The Eagles game the Gordon fumble was a huge swing from us adding a fg or td making it 20-16 or 20-20 to 27-13 and game over.

                        Bridgewater was not my choice, I would have given Drew the first four games and then decided on letting him continue or go to Teddy but obviously Fangio chose Teddy because he believes in his defense and his job is on the line. At the end of the day I'm a Bronco fan and seeing them beat Dallas and the Chargers this year is the most excited I've been since SB50.

                        Sunday if the Broncos don't come out playing with their hair on fire then Fangio has to go! We need to see this team run through a wall for their coach, if he cant get them up for this then he isn't the right guy in charge. I know many have had him fired already but reality is he is still the coach and despite losing some games we should have won ( philly, & Pittsburgh) he also got wins over teams we weren't suppose to beat ( Dallas & LA).
                        Trying to be positive, does Fangio get some points back for our D this year? But even if so, I know full well that a HC needs to be able to move the chains as well.

                        It is clear to me that Belichick loves D. He will huddle with the guys every so often. He knows it. He gets it. But he, like all HCs, must be able to move the chains through his his own initiative, through the use of his OC and other coaches, and basically, as a responsibility of his job. It's not an O or D designation.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by sra84 View Post

                          Broncos 2020 offense points per game- 20.2

                          Broncos 2021 offense points per game thus far- 20.7

                          No improvement with Bridgewater.

                          2020 Broncos defense points per game allowed- 27.9

                          2021 Broncos defense points per game allowed thus far - 17.8

                          Our offense is just as inept at scoring as it was with Lock. The Broncos are winning because of the defense surrendering 10 points less per game.
                          You just outlined why Teddy was chosen to start.

                          Denver is 7th in NFL in TOP for 2021, 2020 the broncos were 23rd. 3+ minute difference which is a 6+ minute swing.

                          Denver averaging 1.1 turnovers a game in 2021 (tied 7th) and averaged 2.0 a game in 2020 (32nd, last place).

                          Defense doesn't have to play as long or from bad positions as often with teddy.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by CanDB View Post

                            Trying to be positive, does Fangio get some points back for our D this year? But even if so, I know full well that a HC needs to be able to move the chains as well.

                            It is clear to me that Belichick loves D. He will huddle with the guys every so often. He knows it. He gets it. But he, like all HCs, must be able to move the chains through his his own initiative, through the use of his OC and other coaches, and basically, as a responsibility of his job. It's not an O or D designation.
                            I am putting everything on this game for Fangio and I hope Paton is too!!!! The AFC West goes through KC and has since 2017, if we cant beat them with this defense and the offense Fangio has decided to go with then we need to find a coach that can, all is forgiven if he can pull this off.

                            As far as moving the chains we all loved the 2013 team but the 2015 team actually won a SB. I'll take the boring team if it means we win over the exciting team.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
                              I am putting everything on this game for Fangio and I hope Paton is too!!!! The AFC West goes through KC and has since 2017, if we cant beat them with this defense and the offense Fangio has decided to go with then we need to find a coach that can, all is forgiven if he can pull this off.

                              As far as moving the chains we all loved the 2013 team but the 2015 team actually won a SB. I'll take the boring team if it means we win over the exciting team.
                              I have not been too vocal about it, but IMO unless we make the playoffs and play really well when we get there, I don't see him as our HC next year. Sure, this game is very important, but I'll give him the opportunity to redeem himself if we finish strong. BUT, my gut tells me he is gone unless he really makes something big happen this year.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by CanDB View Post

                                I have not been too vocal about it, but IMO unless we make the playoffs and play really well when we get there, I don't see him as our HC next year. Sure, this game is very important, but I'll give him the opportunity to redeem himself if we finish strong. BUT, my gut tells me he is gone unless he really makes something big happen this year.
                                A win Sunday night would be a good start. He's gonna need his offense to show up.
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